RAW talent vs Coaching

[vdubtx]

I'm as hated as Adolf Hitler and I only got 6 votes...

The only reason you are still here is they didn't leave the voting open longer.
By my recollection, only a few hours.

[noeymc]

i think its both you can have raw talent and be nothing else other then raw the coach turns u into a finish product

[MICHAEL]

i think its both you can have raw talent and be nothing else other then raw the coach turns u into a finish product

well said,,,, I agree,,, RAW talent is a GIFT! IT can be refined with a GOOD COACH, or can be hindered by a crappy one! I am sure their a bunch of Good ones out there, maybe even Rob! He sounds like he knows his stuff!

NICE TIP ROB about the ball surface, maybe that's what happened to my Beatdown! I put polish on it just to see what the reaction would be, and it sucked! LOL

I will go back to the out of box surface, and not use polish! Everything Iceman knows about bowling he has learned on Bowlingboard.com! GOD BLESS THIS SITE! May it continue on FOREVER!!

[MICHAEL]

Don't want to ruffle any feathers here, since I am new to the boards. If you are such a elite Raw TALENT how come your not bowling against Pete Weber? You brought up golf, one of my passions for the last few years, And even thought I think I am okay at the game my handicap a 7, would I challenge Tiger Woods who in your words has RAW TALENT, HELL NO! But guess what Tiger has had a couple of coaches, lastly Sean Foley, could Sean beat Tiger on the links, not a chance in hell. But could he teach Tiger a few things YES! Even though I consider myself OK, I still meet with my coach every couple weeks, because he can figure out whats wrong with my game. Why knock Aslan for not having a woman? The single life is the best, granted I got a good woman I've been with for years, wouldn't trade it for anything. That's another subject. You didn't even respond to what the man was saying, it sounds like it to me you are living in your own world where you think there isn't anything better than the ALMIGHTY ICEMAN, which trust me dude there are other things revolving. Anyone here on the Boards can roll on a THS, and probably do well, like Aslan was saying where is the challenge? I just got done practicing on a cheetah pattern, do you have that experience? Or do you prefer the beer leaguge THS? Nothing wrong with that I love beer, but prefer to challenge myself. I just got back into bowling after a 16 year lay off, yea I am trying to learn new things like resurfacing and what not, but new to bowling, nope. But seeing what I have seen so far, you will proably issue a BS challenge, so be it. Take a bike ride up to Michigan, we can bowl,golf, and go to Milan Dragway where my ZX1100 screams. Just bring your money! Sorry if I offended anyone else on The Boards, not my intention, I am new here and just tired of the BS. If certain people don't like it ban me>

Just for your information I did challenge Pete, and THE DUKE, in a thread about a year ago..... NEVER HEARD FROM THEM..... think of how much they would have had to LOSE...... Getting beat by ICEMAN! X IRONWORK, Two years into bowling, and NO COACHING!!

YES,,,, I am sure they read my challenge,,,, but decided not to TAKE THE CHANCE,,,, BECAUSE ICEMAN on a given day, can Roll with the Best of them.

Are pete and Norm Duke better bowlers then Iceman! SURE, I am not delusional Man!!! LOL But on a give day a given challenge, Iceman can bring it home! HOW>>>> RAW TALENT! I have been in sports my whole life..... football, Track, all they through college, and then even in the ARMY won some great trophies for running High Hurdles, Low Hurdles, and the quarter mile sprint, along with the mile relay!

I was born to compete,,, I just wish I would have found bowling when I was in my early years,,,,, LIKE MY 50s..... who knows what might have happened!!!!! Howlllllllling ICEMAN!!!!!!

[MICHAEL]

It's not only getting warm, it's also getting pretty deep!

Seriously, Iceman is right! No amount of coaching can replace natural ability. That being said, there is no bowler on the planet that cannot benefit from good coaching in one way or another. It's not about turning everyone into a 220 average bowler or helping every bowler get to the PBA Tour. At the clinic yesterday I was able to help a senior bowler with very bad knees to modify his approach in such a way that not only will his scores go up, but he will bowl with less pain, and will probably be able to bowl for many more years. Will he ever compete with Pete Weber? No. But he was still able to take the help that I gave him and use it to increase his enjoyment of the game.

Is there any bowler out there who doesn't want to improve? I don't think so. If you average 120, then you want to average 130. If you average 200, you want to average 220. If a coach can help, why not take advantage of it?

Thanks Rob,,,, I think a lot of your suggestions and opinions! I know I don't know you personally, but I think if I were to take a change, and take a lesion you might be the person I would give a FIRST SHOT!

I like Vegas,,,, FUN TOWN and when we lived in modesto ca for 6 years, we would make trips there mainly for the entertainment,,, I don't gamble, or drink, but its a fun town! I got a HUGE KICK out of the Star Trek exhibit they had there for a while!

Getting ready to put my beatdown on the spinner, and work the surface polish off! Then resurface!!! Thanks bud!
!

[MICHAEL]

The only reason you are still here is they didn't leave the voting open longer.
By my recollection, only a few hours.

A little LOVE might be in order here vdubtx!! He can't help being anything other then what he is!! It's a gift,,,, RAW TALENT!! HEY ask MIKE WHITE!! When the chips are down,,,, ASLAN can DISH IT OUT!

I think I would rather take on Pete, or Norm then ASLAN on a given day!!! He seems to have that thing I am talking about called RAW TALENT! WAIT,,,,, I FORGOT,,,, HE has had many lesions form coaches!!!

IN a match,,,, could ICEMAN beat the THE ASLAN??? WE shall see,,,, I am thinking about loading up my bike with my trailer, and heading out to Vegas to meet ASLAN, and hopefully Rob! YES ICEMAN was also Born to Ride.... did 1800 miles from Modesto Ca to Kansas city MO in 2 days....! And still had a bunch left over, could have kept going!!!!!!

[MICHAEL]

Well stated Aslan!

REALLY????? Well said?? Are you related to Aslan?? LOL BEAM ME UP SCOTTY!!! (YOU KNOW THE RESON LOL)!

[MICHAEL]

Iceman makes some good points...but as usual in his brief moments between acid flashbacks...I can't say I agree with everything.

For example;
Does instruction help?
YES! BELIEVE ME...I started out in August 2013 with a 121 average, no knowledge of lateral movement, no understanding of bowling balls, and no technique to speak of. After ONE lesson...I was a 140s bowlers and knew all the basics. After TWO lessons I was a 160s bowler and a value to my team. After THREE lessons...my average has climbed into the 170s and I'm picking up over 70% of my singe-pin spares.

Ice...instruction shows you where your holes are (in your game, not yur head)...and gives you a lot of food for thought on how you might want to change one thing or another to help you. If you (like many bowlers) are too PROUD to ask for advice or admit you're not the greatest bowler ever (on pure talent)...then you will never GROW past what you are. And no matter how high your average is...if it's not being tested at the USBC open or in PBA events or even ABT events...it's meaningless. Yes....MEANINGLESS. Right now...you're the best basketball player at your local YMCA. And all the 8th graders you play against sing your praises. BUT...until you join a Gus Macker tournament...maybe try out for a real team...you're only as good as the next best player at your YMCA. And you aren't getting BETTER...because how could you!!? You're already GREAT! You're a LEGEND in your own mind....there's no room for improvement.

Aslan just needs a woman.
Disagree...and I'll tell you why in the next example.

You NEED some natural ability.
TRUE...and here's my example;

My work buddy...I've tried to get him into bowling with me. At first, he was Gung Ho about it. But he wasn't "good". And no matter how many times I tried to help...even after a lesson with a pro...he's still not good. He doesn't stand in the right place....he doesn't know what he's aiming at...30% of his shots just go in the gutter. He has LESS natural ability...then the average child. ANd I can't help him. I don't think anyone can help him!! You tell him to line up in one place...he lines up somewhere else. You tell him to aim for an arrow on the right side...his ball is in the left gutter!

AND....he recently found a woman!! And did that HELP his game!?? NOPE. Now he cares even LESS that he sucks at bowling...because he's got a horny lady friend competing for his time. Tonight, he canceled on the bowling team...because he'd rather miss out on bowling and pay the sub to play...so he can go to Disney Land on a date with his lady friend. Is it his first ever trip that he just couldn't pass on!!? Nope. He's been there 50 times, has a season pass.

H Word (that rhymes with LOWES <----quality building center) before Bros apparently!

See Ice. No coach can help you...because you're a LEGEND. And so long as you can live in that tiny world...that 1-2 centers...that THS shot beer league...there's ZERO reason to ever try to get lessons and get better. You're a LEGEND. They will write stories of you in the local paper. Now...when I'm bowling with vdub in Reno...against actual elite bowlers...and struggling to learn and get better...you "may" think that I'm a fool for doing so. Perhaps that I should instead just stay in my own center and bask in the glory of a 207 average!!

But THAT is where we differ. If there is no mountain left to climb...I'll find a new sport. When I started running...I ran in 5Ks to WIN...not just to "participate". I was running 7k every DAY!! What "glory" is there in "participating"?? And if bowling becomes me patting myself on the back for being a local "legend"...and "poo-pooing" those that are taking lessons to get better...because I'm such a natural talent....then I have OVERSTAYED my welcome as a bowler and it's time to find something a bit more challenging.

FIRST OF ALL ASLAN WAY TO FRICKEN LONG,,, I lost interest about 1/3 of the way down! Second of all....LOL,,, I don't do DRUGS, NEVER HAVE, like you! My body is my temple,,,, I would never need, or even have the desire to do drugs, unlike you! LOL

I am not a coach Aslan,,, but a WOMAN would help in your case a bunch! It helps in regards to, (giving you focus)! I know form past threads your gawking at chicks on all the other lanes while your bowling! YOU HAVE NO FOCUS, unless your bowling Mike, because you need a Woman to Love and respect! Someone that accepts you for who YOU ARE!!

It also helps with that nervous energy that has no way to relieve its self!! With God as my Witness, I will continue searching for a woman that doesn't have HIGH HOPES, and would settle for a guy such as yourself! If I didn't care,,,,, I wouldn't do it bud!!! Be looking for some new ones soon!

[Aslan]

The only reason you are still here is they didn't leave the voting open longer.
By my recollection, only a few hours.

Well….thats actually true.

[Aslan]

IN a match,,,, could ICEMAN beat the THE ASLAN??? WE shall see,,,, I am thinking about loading up my bike with my trailer, and heading out to Vegas to meet ASLAN, and hopefully Rob! YES ICEMAN was also Born to Ride.... did 1800 miles from Modesto Ca to Kansas city MO in 2 days....! And still had a bunch left over, could have kept going!!!!!!

If Iceman ever makes the trip…Aslan will meet him in Modesto or Vegas. An Iceman vs. Aslan vs. RobM SIN CITY SHOWDOWN!!?? Wow!

Granted…despite my current 3-0 record against bowlingboards.com members (ZDawg once and MWhite twice)…this would be bowling against TWO MWHITE level LEGENDS…AND…we'd be in Rob's backyard!! Last time I bowled sweeps in Vegas I shot a super duper wonderful 432!! And that included a 113!! Over 9 games in Vegas…. shot an 896 Series!! Over NINE Games!! So for Aslan to make that 3 hour drive and take down two legends (including one that is his "bowling master/teacher")…well, I should just get an honorary PBA card or something.

But yes…I accept ALL challengers!! And I haven't lost yet.

It also helps with that nervous energy that has no way to relieve its self!! With God as my Witness, I will continue searching for a woman that doesn't have HIGH HOPES, and would settle for a guy such as yourself! If I didn't care,,,,, I wouldn't do it bud!!! Be looking for some new ones soon!

Well…looking for ones without high hopes is at least a good strategy. I generally aim for ones that are either drunk enough to make a "mistake" or so disappointed with recent dating life that they just don't care and are willing to date a guy that just has a low level of common decency. Granted, both of those strategies lead to women that will eventually cheat on me when they either sober up or realize they aimed way, way too low…but at least I get a month or two of happiness out of the deal right?

Ice…I'm just trying to help you man. I don't want you…in say 13 months…to be on your death bed REGRETTING that you didn't take the Iceman Bowlarama Roadshow to Reno. You don't have much time left. I want you to DOMINATE the bowling scene in these final months!! I want to be able to say, "remember that Iceman guy that won the USBC Masters? I knew that guy." I want THAT to be my claim to fame! So far…the best claim to fame I have is I once met Greg "The Hammer" Valentine in an airport bar. I need MORE than that ICE!! I need to tell my eventual Grandchildren…that I KNEW the greatest bowler ever (not named Earl nor Walter). I want to have an Iceman bobble-head on my shelf! And you CAN do it!!! You HAVE the skills!! You HAVE the team!! So why are you sitting around in St. Louis?!! No regrets my friend…no REGRETS.