RAW talent vs Coaching

[MICHAEL]

Yesterday I had the unique opportunity to coach at a USBC clinic alongside Carolyn Dorin-Ballard, Wendy Macpherson, Dave Wodka, and Jimmy Calahan. It was a very interesting experience for me as it was the first multiple-coach clinic in which I've participated. We worked with bowlers at a great range of levels with averages from 160 to 220 and ages from some college bowling team athletes to some senior citizens with some limiting physical issues. The clinic was held in conjunction with a special event, so the participants came from all over the country.

What I found fascinating was the wide variety of coaching styles and the way some of the atheletes were immediately comfortable with one coach over the others, yet said they gained something from everyone. As Dave Wodka and Jimmy Calahan are working ball reps for Ebonite and Storm, there were some very interesting discussion about bowling balls, aside from the physical instruction. Something that I found very interesting that you could do yourself was when they had one of the collegiate bowlers throw a shot with his bowling ball, then Wodka hit it by hand with a 1000 abralon pad before he threw it again. The difference in reaction was amazing! Next Calahan hit it again with a 3000 pad, and everyone could again see a visible difference in ball reaction. One thing that all of the pro bowler/ coaches had in common is that none of them have a single polished ball in their current arsenal. Food for thought!

Very interesting that most don't use polished balls, I am just the opposite! I thought that the polish helped conserve the balls energy, keeping it form burning up on its way to the break point! I know my go to ball the V.G. Nanno pearl, has high polish on it, and it makes a beautiful move to the pocket the last 3 feet or so.

So are you saying a 4000 surface has and advantage over a polished surface?

[rv driver]

We are talking about degrees of accomplishment here, and points of perspective. No offense to your son, Michael, but I wonder if his average might have been over 200 had he received coaching? And I wonder what his average will be next year? Will he be consistent? Or is this "beginner's luck?" Sooner or later, if we excel at something naturally, we do begin to think about it and make tiny corrections. Will he know what corrections to make? When average mistakes begin to plague him (as they do everyone), will he know what corrections are best, or will he simply try harder at doing what he's always done, hoping that THIS time, it'll magically work?

Aslan's more or less correct here, I think: everyone has a ceiling. Where he's off track is implying that the ceiling is made of steel. It's usually not; it's generally made of rubber and can be stretched with proper attention (coaching). I used to teach music. I've had several students who were told they'd never be able to carry a tune -- they just didn't have the raw "gift" of musical ability. I taught all of them to sing on-pitch. Sing professionally? No. Sing "well?" Probably not. But at least they were no longer afraid to sing in the shower.

Coaching isn't about "getting everyone to the Tour." It's not about "having everyone reach a 250 average." It's about simple improvement -- whatever that means for the individual. If one is naturally gifted, coaching will take one far. If one is a klutz, coaching will abate embarrassment. It's not "one or the other"; it's "both/and."

[RobLV1]

Less surface conserves more energy, but many feel that polish clogs the pores in the cover material and makes the ball too squirty in the oil. Most of the pros would rather use a finer grid abrasive like a 4000 abralon pad to smooth out the surface rather than use a polish.

[Mudpuppy]

I'm not going to debate whether coaching works or not or if the USBC certification program is even credible here. In short my thoughts are it depends on your goals in bowling whether coaching is worthwhile or not - i.e. if you want to open bowl twice a year with a house ball and rented shoes but want a coach to impress your friends well just take your money, light it on fire and smack yourself twice because you are wasting your time.

But what I do want to say here is that this specific area of Michigan there really isn't much coaching available. The USBC sent an email about a free coaching lesson. I, personally, have never been interested in seeking out a coach but with all the talk here (and there is plenty just from Aslan) I thought I would give it the benefit of the doubt and try it out. So I checked my local area - there was a couple of Level I (barely certified took a 1 hour course online - who knows even they can even spell bowling) and then there was a bronze or silver coach. I contacted him and he said the USBC didn't even tell him they were doing this and he doesn't give out free lessons - he is too busy. IMO bad business approach - if he spent a mere 30 minutes with me and I liked his coaching I would have definitely paid for more sessions - I wasn't truly just looking for 1 session as a freebie. His loss. But in all of it he did tell me that there is a lack of credible coaches in this area and not to waste time with the Level I people. So once again left with a bad taste in my mouth about coaching.

[RobLV1]

It was interesting that at the beginning of the clinic yesterday, the question was asked, "How many of you have a coach that you see on an on-going basis. Some of the participants raised their hands, while every coach, including the three professional Touring bowlers all raised their hands. Professional atheletes have coaches; all of them, for a reason. As to your bad experience with the free lesson, I can tell you that I received an email from the USBC asking if I would participate in the program. I said yes. I have a hunch that the person you contacted might have forgotten about the email. On behalf of the USBC Coaching Program, I offer my apologies. If you ever get to Las Vegas, I will gladly give you a free lesson to make up for his oversight.

[Mudpuppy]

It was interesting that at the beginning of the clinic yesterday, the question was asked, "How many of you have a coach that you see on an on-going basis. Some of the participants raised their hands, while every coach, including the three professional Touring bowlers all raised their hands. Professional atheletes have coaches; all of them, for a reason. As to your bad experience with the free lesson, I can tell you that I received an email from the USBC asking if I would participate in the program. I said yes. I have a hunch that the person you contacted might have forgotten about the email. On behalf of the USBC Coaching Program, I offer my apologies. If you ever get to Las Vegas, I will gladly give you a free lesson to make up for his oversight.

I will be in LAV later this year and probably next year and the year after - I try to go once a year. The devil's playground is just too much fun to stay away. I will definitely let you know. I know there is always room for improvement. I appreciate the offer. I have a feeling this individual is bowling smart and not business savvy. And being deep into business and customer service this is a very bad approach. I give away thousands of dollars of product without blinking but it generates millions in sales. Really between myself and several other people I bowl with if this guy was any good he could have reaped a lot of benefit with my recommendation. I can't really offer the same kind of return on investment with your offer of a free lesson since you are in LAV but if I like the coaching from you I will definitely give you a ringing endorsement and when I am in Vegas if we can coordinate I could pay for additional lessons.

[rv driver]

I'm not going to debate whether coaching works or not or if the USBC certification program is even credible here. In short my thoughts are it depends on your goals in bowling whether coaching is worthwhile or not - i.e. if you want to open bowl twice a year with a house ball and rented shoes but want a coach to impress your friends well just take your money, light it on fire and smack yourself twice because you are wasting your time.

This^^^

[vdubtx]

I feel a benefit in getting coaching. Whether it be in person, or posting a video and getting analysis of my mechanics. It certainly pin points an issue or something to work on while practicing.

I have received coaching both ways and have seen benefit in both. Most recently I submitted a video to another forum and Rob Mautner saw something in my approach that helped get me back on track and something to work on over the summer.

[MICHAEL]

Do I know dozens, and dozens of HOUSE pattern, (which almost all of us on here bowl, lets be honest,, MOST, key word), who bowl 220 and over averages... YES!

Does Coaching Help? IT CAN, depending on the coach I suppose! Is knowledge important in being a 220 average bowler, Maybe! I know a bunch that don't know squat about modern bowling techniques, but can beat some of the more coached ones on this site, including me... LOL!

MY POINT IS THIS,,,,and I will stand by it to my death!! Raw talent will always win out over a (well coached, not gifted bowler)!

A well coached, talented bowler, (like most professionals), does have and edge with his coaching, and knowledge! BUT<<<But that person was probably a great bowler due to his GIFT OF BOWLING.

Ok ....... you can take art lessons for 30 years,,,,, are you going to be a great painter,,,, NO,,,, NOT IF YOU DON"T HAVE THE GIFT! Plain and simple all sports are the same way!

With Coaching could Aslan be a NFL quarterback??? NO... LOL.... Coaching can only take you so far, and in some cases can mess up a guy/gal that might have been a pretty good bowler using his own unique style and delivery! I know a bunch that fall into that category!

Knowledge is power, its a good thing, but it can only take you as far,,,,,,,,,,,AS YOUR ABALITY will allow you! YOUR GIFT!

I have seen golfers that and know a couple that were very unorthodox in their swing, but,,,, BUT IT WORKED! One, a guy named Ben, when the Pro got throw with him, he couldn't hit a watermelon!! His scores went down!

He had a pretty good game, in the 80's before he took lesions and started THINKING TOO MUCH! To this day he hits in the 90's, and low 100 now!

AGAIN: Coaching CAN help a persons game, (depending on the coach!) but it will NEVER Replace the GIFT,,,, RAW TALENT!!
THATS MY POINT! To be a 220 average bowler you HAVE TO HAVE THE GIFT FIRST, then coaching, (good coaching) would be of benefit!

[Aslan]

YES everyone has a ceiling, Granny/Aslan,,, you both have had a LOT OF COACHING, I read about it on here all the time. LOL MY SON NONE?
What is are both your averages?

It seems like everyone at that alley is almost bowling 300 games.

My son that's 40, bowled his first season ever several 600 series, he is also ONE HELL OF A GOLFER! HE HAS the athletic Gift, that many don't have, and never will.

I DO agree that being naturally adept helps. I've seen beginner golfers shot +2 over par golf the first couple months of playing...they just have a "knack" for it. And I've seen golfers that have played for 40 years and I beat them....and I SUCK at golf!

AS I SAID, I bowled on and inter-city-league with some SUPER GREAT bowlers, with high averages! I would always ask a lot of questions, and I can honestly say non,,, had coaching!

O sure,,,, people they bowled with through the years gave advice to them, but that would be the extent of their coaching... LOL

Many had very unique, VERY DIFFERENT deliveries but guess what????? IT WOKED FOR THEM! I am thinking of one right now, among many with high averages that had no coaching. that I bowled against last year,,, that has a 220-25 average.

Who are these household names?? Who are these legends of bowling?? Oh...thats right...they apparently are GREAT...yet SO great that they don't want to show off on a bigger stage than "Bob's Monday Pizza League".

I agree Iceman with the premise that natural talent is ALSO important. AND...I agree that there are alot of self-proclaimed experts that can't seem to average more than 174 and I think that detracts from their opinions. But maybe before criticizing "lessons" as useless...you should take one. Because if you don't, you're like the guy working in a coal mine in West Virginia claiming he makes a good living and never graduated the 8th grade so all that "fancy learnin" is over-rated. A wise man once said that the one thing you can never have TOO MUCH of is education. It's not going to always help, or be useful, or make you better...and being smart doesn't make you a better person...but it never HURTS.

Like I said....I listen to Rob because he's a credentialed instructor and his methods/teachings have thus far been very effective. I listen to Bowl1820 because he's a wealth of bowling knowledge. And I listen to VDub because he's a 200+ average bowler that has competed at the higher levels. Doesn't mean I don't also take advice from anywhere and everywhere else (although Rob would say that might be a bad thing)...but like I said...education is never a bad thing. I don't use everything I come across...but I'm always open minded.