Arc, and for the very reason you mentioned - if I try to rely on a hockey stick style movement I tend to either leave a lot 10 pins, OR even worse I overhook and miss left of the headpin (especially as the night wears on conditions get crappier).
Arc vs Hockey Stick
I really believe for me the Arc type balls, seem to give me the MORE consistent scores HERE LATELY. The Deadly Aim does have a move some where in between! How do most of you get YOUR HIGHEST Scores and Series? Arc or Hokey Stick flip movement.
I must say, honestly that my last two perfect games were with hockey stick movement,,, pin up on both balls, and kicked out to the right of the ring finger.
The deadly aim I believe is going to give me something Big soon... last two weeks been averaging 235. (Now I know two weeks don't mean squat...lol but the movement leaves very few,, 10 pin!)
Where as with the hockey stick movement, it was either on,,, or off, leaving lots of 10 pins!
WHICH MOVEMENT SCORES the BEST FOR YOU!!
Last edited by MICHAEL; 06-28-2014 at 10:12 PM.
Don't walk on Thin Ice!
Arc, and for the very reason you mentioned - if I try to rely on a hockey stick style movement I tend to either leave a lot 10 pins, OR even worse I overhook and miss left of the headpin (especially as the night wears on conditions get crappier).
Well I only have the one ball at the moment my Seismic Euphoria it's more of a hockey stick especially on the light light-medium conditions it was meant for. From what I have seen hockey sticks score higher if they are dialed in but if not they are harder to adjust than more arc balls are.
Originally Posted by Amyers
I agree,,, when the conditions are right, THAT hockey stick movement CAN and does give me some super games, but when its not working, lots of WHAT I CALL ALMOST GOOD SHOTS, with the 10 pin, 7, ect.
I wonder if it has ever been studied to see if a Walter Ray type of shot gives a EDGE in scoring?
I think of Belmo,,,, and its doesn't seem to get more hockey stick then his entry into the pocket.... is that the future,,, will the young be coming out of high school an college throwing two handed?
Can the Walter Ray style compete with the Two Handers in the LONG RUN..... time will tell!
Don't walk on Thin Ice!
With my previous release I couldn't control the arc at all and was getting good reactions only with hockey-stick balls. Now it's the opposite, I can only control the reaction with my solid/arc ball and I'm struggling a lot with the skid/flip balls.
Simple answer? Yes. Last I checked, he's still the best bowler in the world and has been since the 90s. He just won the senior masters for crying out loud!
STRAIGHTER IS GREATER!!! It always has been. It always will be.
Sure, you can go 2-handed or thumbless…and like Belmo and Osku…when you are "on"…you're practically unbeatable!
But….BUT….when you're "off"…or when conditions aren't behaving the way you need them to….you're very, very beatable by a stroker with a straighter game. WRW, Norm Duke, PDW, Parker Bohn III….ALL these guys are legends that STILL dominate their opponents. And these guys are what? IN their 50s??
Hey man, it's all good. Hooking the ball is fun, I get that. And these new styles are fun to mess with, I get that. But I just think it's crazy that we even ask the question, "Can a person win throwing like WRW"…when WRW is STILL the best bowler in the WORLD!!! I mean, I understand the mathematics here and the assumption that should Belmo stay on his current path that he could pass WRW…BUT… BUT… there are also substantiated rumors that claim both Belmo and Osku are suffering from early back problems that may limit their ability to keep throwing 2-handed in the not too distant future. So, I'm sticking with the title holders like WRW and Duke and Weber until one of these new guys ACTUALLY takes the lead.
In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Brunswick Endeavor; (: .) Radical Outer Limits Pearl; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 186; Lifetime Average = 171;
Ball Speed: 14.4mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 181
Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!
Hey,,, Lion man, Iceman agrees with you. The guy that I mentioned won the AMF Big 22 last year and 2nd this year, is 60 years along with his partner, throws a lot like WRW and Norm Duke.
I as much agreed when the big hook flip is on,,, its almost,,, ALMOST unbeatable, but when its not, it can be WAY OFF!!
I didn't know that WRW was ranked number 1 in the PBA? YES I know that he is still a hell of a bowler, along with Norm Duke, but I had no idea in the current rankings he was number 1. Are you B.S. Iceman... I know you love the guy,,, but is he number 1????
Don't walk on Thin Ice!
Yes Iceman.
WRW holds 47 PBA titles, 37 more than Jason Belmonte. He leads Earl Anthony by 4. Jason Belmonte is currently in a multi-person tie for 41st on that list.
Even if you only count guys that are active in the PBA (not PBA50)…that have won titles in the last year…Belmonte ranks 8th. Even if you only count bowlers that have won in 2014, he ranks 2nd behind Chris Barnes…Barnes has 17; 7 more than Belmonte.
Where guys like Belmonte and Rash fair well, is when you compare titles won to years active…but thats a deceptive stat since many PBA bowlers today have been actively bowling since they were children. Many of the old timers, many started actively bowling in their 20s and didn't start bowling PBA till their mid-late 30s.
But in terms of titles, which is what the PBA has always used as a measuring stick…it's really no comparison at this point.
I know WRW is great and PDW is my favorite. I enjoy watching Duke but this is a different question it's about today and the future not 20 years ago. I'm not a big fan of two handers but if we are talking about the present then the answer is No. The ability to play up the back of the ball is a nice piece to have in the bag but it's not going to win most of the time. Dose that mean lofting the gutter caps is the wave of the future either no it's not but most of the time it's going to come down to who puts it in the pocket at the best angle with the most power. That is rarely going to happen with WRW style bowling. Eventually I believe the ball manufactures will produce balls that eliminate the advantage and the necessity of Belmo's style but until they do he has an advantage it's real it can be overcome and I'm not changing over to two handed delivery I'm to old for that crap. All these guys are exceptionally accurate the only real differences are what's in their head and how they throw. The power guys have the advantage and I don't see that changing soon.
…except for the 47 times he won a PBA title. And while yes, much of that is the fact that his style and skill currently hold the record for spare shooting percentage…to say that this style cannot produce a high strike rate….WRW ALSO holds the 2nd highest strike % in a single season.
And you have to ask yourself…WHO BENEFITS as ball technology increases?
MOST people would say that when reactive resin hit the scene…it was the crankers that got hurt. Suddenly the strokers could get more entry angle without developing the less accurate cranker release. Why do you think casual/league scores keep going up? Because more people are developing a more modern release? Most league bowlers don't even know what "timing" is.
Don't take my for for it. Google it…read all the articles about who benefitted most from reactive resin. And who it harmed the most. As equipment keeps getting stronger, accuracy will be more and more important. Repeatability will be more and more important.
And like I said…we're talking about a bowler with 47 titles and over 4 million in career earnings. And everyone is acting like those are just "numbers" that don't matter because right this second Jason Belmonte is regarded as the greatest bowler. Do you know how many "Jason Belmontes" we've had over the years??
Case Study: Bill O'Neil
College player of the year 3 of the 4 years he was in college. PBA Rookie of the Year in 2006. Internationally won a gold medal.
But Bill didn't win his first PBA title until 2009 (3 years after winning PBA rookie of the year). Bill just won his 5th PBA title at the Badger Open (2014). He's won about $650,000 in 8 years. He's never once been named PBA Player of the Year.
Walter Ray never won rookie of the year…and has had an extra 18 seasons. But in not quite 3x as much time on the tour, he's amassed over 7x Bill's earnings…and has won PBA player of the year 7 times. Almost the entire time Bill was on the tour, he played against WRW.
My point is, had you asked people back in 2006 who the greatest bowler ever was…many might have said that despite PDW, WRW and Earl Anthony's numbers…Bill O'Neil would certainly surpass them…because he's the REAL DEAL. Yet between two modern release geniuses…Fagan and O'Neil…not even 1/4 the titles of WRW, PDW, Norm Duke, OR Earl Anthony.
But "this time"…with Belmo…it's "different"? This time…he IS the real deal?? Sorry. I've heard it all before. IF Belmo's back can hold out…and assuming the PBA can stay solvent…I predict Belmo to win 23 titles before he either turns 50 or retires. Thats not even half what Earl or WRW have.
This soapbox is about to collapse…I digress.
Last edited by Aslan; 06-29-2014 at 10:26 PM.
In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Brunswick Endeavor; (: .) Radical Outer Limits Pearl; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 186; Lifetime Average = 171;
Ball Speed: 14.4mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 181
Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks