Arc vs Hockey Stick

[Amyers]

…except for the 47 times he won a PBA title. And while yes, much of that is the fact that his style and skill currently hold the record for spare shooting percentage…to say that this style cannot produce a high strike rate….WRW ALSO holds the 2nd highest strike % in a single season.

And you have to ask yourself…WHO BENEFITS as ball technology increases?

MOST people would say that when reactive resin hit the scene…it was the crankers that got hurt. Suddenly the strokers could get more entry angle without developing the less accurate cranker release. Why do you think casual/league scores keep going up? Because more people are developing a more modern release? Most league bowlers don't even know what "timing" is.

Don't take my for for it. Google it…read all the articles about who benefitted most from reactive resin. And who it harmed the most. As equipment keeps getting stronger, accuracy will be more and more important. Repeatability will be more and more important.

And like I said…we're talking about a bowler with 47 titles and over 4 million in career earnings. And everyone is acting like those are just "numbers" that don't matter because right this second Jason Belmonte is regarded as the greatest bowler. Do you know how many "Jason Belmontes" we've had over the years??

Case Study: Bill O'Neil
College player of the year 3 of the 4 years he was in college. PBA Rookie of the Year in 2006. Internationally won a gold medal.

But Bill didn't win his first PBA title until 2009 (3 years after winning PBA rookie of the year). Bill just won his 5th PBA title at the Badger Open (2014). He's won about $650,000 in 8 years. He's never once been named PBA Player of the Year.

Walter Ray never won rookie of the year…and has had an extra 18 seasons. But in not quite 3x as much time on the tour, he's amassed over 7x Bill's earnings…and has won PBA player of the year 7 times. Almost the entire time Bill was on the tour, he played against WRW.

My point is, had you asked people back in 2006 who the greatest bowler ever was…many might have said that despite PDW, WRW and Earl Anthony's numbers…Bill O'Neil would certainly surpass them…because he's the REAL DEAL. Yet between two modern release geniuses…Fagan and O'Neil…not even 1/4 the titles of WRW, PDW, Norm Duke, OR Earl Anthony.

But "this time"…with Belmo…it's "different"? This time…he IS the real deal?? Sorry. I've heard it all before. IF Belmo's back can hold out…and assuming the PBA can stay solvent…I predict Belmo to win 23 titles before he either turns 50 or retires. Thats not even half what Earl or WRW have.

This soapbox is about to collapse…I digress.

My response is not about the past or Jason Belmonte. My point is in general the power guys have an advantage over the old school up the back of the ball guys. I respect what WRW has one in the past are any of these guys ever going to equal what he has done? Most likely not especially on the money side. Does that mean I expect to see a bunch of young WRW style bowlers take over the PBA? Heck no not a chance the power guys have too big of an advantage built in with modern equipment.

I am not a Belmonte fan give me a match of Duke vs. PDW any day and I'll watch it but the game has changed accept it. If they don't come up with something on the ball side in the next few years traditional bowling will be dead and all we will have is these two handers and a few big power guys. I'm seeing too much of it in the junior leagues right now.

[got_a_300]

I have found that when all of the conditions are just
right and I can get a smooth consistent arc into the
pocket I can get some pretty good scores.

But when the conditions are just right for the hockey
stick type of hook I can get some bigger scores but
everything has to go just perfect for that shot to work
just right.

[rv driver]

Simple answer? Yes. Last I checked, he's still the best bowler in the world and has been since the 90s. He just won the senior masters for crying out loud!

STRAIGHTER IS GREATER!!! It always has been. It always will be.

Sure, you can go 2-handed or thumbless…and like Belmo and Osku…when you are "on"…you're practically unbeatable!

But….BUT….when you're "off"…or when conditions aren't behaving the way you need them to….you're very, very beatable by a stroker with a straighter game. WRW, Norm Duke, PDW, Parker Bohn III….ALL these guys are legends that STILL dominate their opponents. And these guys are what? IN their 50s??

Hey man, it's all good. Hooking the ball is fun, I get that. And these new styles are fun to mess with, I get that. But I just think it's crazy that we even ask the question, "Can a person win throwing like WRW"…when WRW is STILL the best bowler in the WORLD!!! I mean, I understand the mathematics here and the assumption that should Belmo stay on his current path that he could pass WRW…BUT… BUT… there are also substantiated rumors that claim both Belmo and Osku are suffering from early back problems that may limit their ability to keep throwing 2-handed in the not too distant future. So, I'm sticking with the title holders like WRW and Duke and Weber until one of these new guys ACTUALLY takes the lead.

I agree! You know, I was watching a vid of Belmonte not long ago, and it struck me how much bodily stress is involved in two-handed bowling.

[rv driver]

…except for the 47 times he won a PBA title. And while yes, much of that is the fact that his style and skill currently hold the record for spare shooting percentage…to say that this style cannot produce a high strike rate….WRW ALSO holds the 2nd highest strike % in a single season.

And you have to ask yourself…WHO BENEFITS as ball technology increases?

MOST people would say that when reactive resin hit the scene…it was the crankers that got hurt. Suddenly the strokers could get more entry angle without developing the less accurate cranker release. Why do you think casual/league scores keep going up? Because more people are developing a more modern release? Most league bowlers don't even know what "timing" is.

Don't take my for for it. Google it…read all the articles about who benefitted most from reactive resin. And who it harmed the most. As equipment keeps getting stronger, accuracy will be more and more important. Repeatability will be more and more important.

And like I said…we're talking about a bowler with 47 titles and over 4 million in career earnings. And everyone is acting like those are just "numbers" that don't matter because right this second Jason Belmonte is regarded as the greatest bowler. Do you know how many "Jason Belmontes" we've had over the years??

Case Study: Bill O'Neil
College player of the year 3 of the 4 years he was in college. PBA Rookie of the Year in 2006. Internationally won a gold medal.

But Bill didn't win his first PBA title until 2009 (3 years after winning PBA rookie of the year). Bill just won his 5th PBA title at the Badger Open (2014). He's won about $650,000 in 8 years. He's never once been named PBA Player of the Year.

Walter Ray never won rookie of the year…and has had an extra 18 seasons. But in not quite 3x as much time on the tour, he's amassed over 7x Bill's earnings…and has won PBA player of the year 7 times. Almost the entire time Bill was on the tour, he played against WRW.

My point is, had you asked people back in 2006 who the greatest bowler ever was…many might have said that despite PDW, WRW and Earl Anthony's numbers…Bill O'Neil would certainly surpass them…because he's the REAL DEAL. Yet between two modern release geniuses…Fagan and O'Neil…not even 1/4 the titles of WRW, PDW, Norm Duke, OR Earl Anthony.

But "this time"…with Belmo…it's "different"? This time…he IS the real deal?? Sorry. I've heard it all before. IF Belmo's back can hold out…and assuming the PBA can stay solvent…I predict Belmo to win 23 titles before he either turns 50 or retires. Thats not even half what Earl or WRW have.

This soapbox is about to collapse…I digress.

Yeah, but I think you're right. People like WRW, PW, a Duke are onto because they're good, they're smart, and their style allows them to ADJUST. I've seen all of the these guys throwing different kinds of deliveries. Maybe I just don't know what I'm looking at, but it *appears* to me as if Belmonte is more lane condition-dependent than these other bowlers.

[Amyers]

I agree! You know, I was watching a vid of Belmonte not long ago, and it struck me how much bodily stress is involved in two-handed bowling.

I know I couldn't do it. Way to much torque on the body.

[Amyers]

Yeah, but I think you're right. People like WRW, PW, a Duke are onto because they're good, they're smart, and their style allows them to ADJUST. I've seen all of the these guys throwing different kinds of deliveries. Maybe I just don't know what I'm looking at, but it *appears* to me as if Belmonte is more lane condition-dependent than these other bowlers.

Belmonte struggles on the shorter lane oil patterns. But he beat Rash where they each picked the pattern on one of the lanes a while back. I have wondered and to preface this I haven't watched any PBA bowling until about a year ago if some of these shorter patterns were not installed especially to hinder the Belmonte type bowlers. Were these extreme short patterns played before he hit the scene? I believe Duke may be the most versatile bowler I have ever seen he is capable of changing his shot more than anyone else I have seen. PDW shot just seems to work regardless of what's going on with the lanes it never really looks like he changes it just works I'm not sure which is more impressive.

[rv driver]

I know I couldn't do it. Way to much torque on the body.

No doubt!

[RobLV1]

I think that it's about time that we start accepting the differences between the bowling that we do and the bowling that the professionals do. The fact of the matter is that Jason Belmonte is the most powerful bowler on the planet and, as he has proven over and over again in the past couple of years, he will win against a great majority of opponents. Just because league bowlers can't do what the pros can do, doesn't mean that "straighter is greater." Personally, I can't hit 300 yard drives like the PGA pros, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to try and tell you that the shortest hitter on the PGA Tour is the best golfer. I'm afraid that the line has been drawn in the sand in regards to Professional Bowling: more power = more success, and regardless of how good Walter Ray was, and still is, he cannot compete week in and week out against the modern power game. I hate to agree with Randy Pedersen about anything, but when he says that when Jason Belmonte's game is on, he's unbeatable, I can't help but agree.

[zdawg]

I hate to agree with Randy Pedersen about anything, but when he says that when Jason Belmonte's game is on, he's unbeatable, I can't help but agree.

I completely agree with that as well, he's tearing it up quite literally. I experiment now and then with the two handed style, last season particularly when our team was getting destroyed and our captain didn't mind - and while I'm not particularly consistent with it, the power when I would hit a strike had everybody ooh'ng and ah'ng so I can see why it appeals to the younger crowd.

[RobLV1]

Someone else who has been playing with the two handed style from time to time is Walter Ray.