sandbagging

[Aslan]

i just hate how handicap is supposed to make every bowler equal. and everyone has that team they just hate to bowl because the have 400+ pins of handicap and you only get 23 pins, then they show up and bowl 50 pins over their average and you get swept lol

People who don't like losing to handicap teams should bowl in scratch leagues. It's that simple. And in the old days, that would natually happen.

As I've posted before, if I ran the USBC, I'd simply set up a tiered system and it would all be based on book averages.

1) Beginners, new bowlers, and bowlers with an average under 121 would start out bowling no-tap. They would be ALLOWED to bowl up ONE division but would only get at most the handicap of a 121 average.

2) All bowlers with scratch averages of 121 to 175 would bowl in a handicap league. 85% of 190 for handicap. Once a bowler has a scratch average equal to or greater than 176 at the end of the season MUST move into a scratch division. Any bowler in the handicap division that CHOOSES to move into the scratch division has the option (so long as they have a 121 average or greater) but will receive no handicap.

3) All handicap bowlers that end with averages under 121 are given the option to move back into the no-tap leagues or continue in the handicapped division getting no more handicap than a 121 average bowler.

4) All bowlers in the scratch division that finish the season with an average under 176 are given the OPTION of moving back into the handicap divisions if they CHOOSE.

In that scenario, you limit "sandbagging" because people in the handicap division don't want to risk getting demoted into no-tap. And since all >175 average bowlers are bowling scratch...and the handicap is only 85% of 190...it would be very difficult to take advantage of the handicap division. I know people like "choice", but at this point...you have to weigh choice versus fairness and competitiveness. There are far, far, far too many good bowlers sitting in handicap leagues whining that they lose to teams with too much handicap...when what they need to do is bowl in a scratch league against other good bowlers and leave the handicap leagues for people that are still trying to build their basic game.

My team is the perfect nightmare example for Shane and others. 5 guys averaging (101, 109, 112, 173, 165). This league is 100% of 220!!! (not what I would have chose...I think thats stupid). This means that each week, our team walks in with the 2nd highest handicap total of 440 pins!! So all it takes is those low average bowlers to have a 148 or a 175 or a 138...and we're doing pretty well!!! But it's not our fault!! I didn't set the handicap at a stupid amount! And these 190+ average bowlers that complain about it...go join a scratch league if you don't like it!! With a 192-193 average...thats the beginning of scratch league material. I'm not saying you HAVE TO...but if you don't...you lose the right to complain. I have 4 bowlers on my team that haven't bowled in a league in the last 12 years. 3 of them have NEVER bowled in a league. 2 of them just bought their first bowling ball and 1 of them is using a $7 ball he got on Ebay. Are they to be expected to walk into league night and realistically defeat a team of players that have been bowling with a 185-215 average for the last 12 years and bowling leagues for 40??

And we don't always win. Last week 2 of our 3 low average bowlers couldn't make it...our 165 average bowler was also out and our 207 average bowler bowled in his place. One of the absent low average bowlers was blanked and the other was replaced with a 150s average bowler. And our one low average bowler that actually showed up...one game he bowled an 85 and another he bowled a 97. It happens. Had we not suffered the 10-point deduction for the bowler that was absent...we might have taken 2 of 4...a couple games were close...but I had an off night and our 207 average bowler bowled 169, 168, 149.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Dude we can't even get enough people to bowl in leagues much less tell them what league to bowl in.

[Aslan]

Dude we can't even get enough people to bowl in leagues much less tell them what league to bowl in.

We'll add that to the "con" side of the list.

[mc_runner]

A few years ago the USBC did a study of all leagues accross the country and concluded that it would take a handicap of 116% of the average of the highest bowler in the league to actually result in equity between high average bowlers and low average bowlers. High average bowlers always have the advantage. That being said, I think that the idea of sandbagging is despicable. It is cheating, plain and simple, regardless of the petty excuses that bowlers come up with to justify doing it, ie., others have done it to me so I'm going to do it to them first. I have never sandbagged. I would never consider sandbagging, and I have absolutely no respect for anyone who does, for whatever reason.

I have read the study but still don't really understand the science behind that number. In a pure 100% handicap league with no average limit, why would a higher average bowler win more? I can only think it comes down to being clutch and performing under pressure?

[Aslan]

I have read the study but still don't really understand the science behind that number. In a pure 100% handicap league with no average limit, why would a higher average bowler win more? I can only think it comes down to being clutch and performing under pressure?

From what I've seen, I think the higher average bowlers have the advantage of consistency and spare shooting. I've seen bad players strike a bunch and score well. But if they leave spares, they might not break 100.

Not sure if thats it, just a guess.

[MICHAEL]

NEVER SAND BAG!! There is NO Honor, or achievement in cheating! Lower then a **** ant is a Sand Bagger!
SO SAYS ICEMAN!
Everyone knows my thoughts on Handicap, bowling! Its for people who want and even playing field! I don't mind getting beat, it makes ICEMAN stronger, and want to come back at the person with all my 15 balls blazing! I will get that person, On any given day I can get anyone! Even your God, Aslan Walter Ray!! (AS I SAID on a given day, and that's good enough for ME) Is Walter a better bowler then anyone in the world?

He just might be.... but if I bowled him at the little bowling alley in Plattsburg Mo. I would ONLY DO IT SCRATCH!! I have my pride! I don't want a bunch of pin's!!!!

This new outlook, Taking Over This Country: Your all winners,,,, and no one ever loses in kids sports, makes my Ice melt!!!!

I was at a track meet for young kids the other day, and when the boys came across the finish line,,, 6 of them,,,, people ran up to them giving each of them a blue ribbon, saying.... YOUR A WINNER,,,, your all winners....... GRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

Man UP, Woman up...... bowl reality..... SCRATCH! If you win,,,, guess what???? YOUR REALLY DID!

I have seen sandbagging in action!!! It's a cancer to the sport of bowling, and anyone that does it should KNOW, that even if they win doing it, they will rot in ****, for even God Hates bowlers who cheat!!

Now I feel better!!! Got that off my chest!!!

[Hampe]

That being said, I think that the idea of sandbagging is despicable. It is cheating, plain and simple, regardless of the petty excuses that bowlers come up with to justify doing it, ie., others have done it to me so I'm going to do it to them first. I have never sandbagged. I would never consider sandbagging, and I have absolutely no respect for anyone who does, for whatever reason.

This pretty much sums up my sentiment real well. Handicaps are there to give beginners and casual players a chance against those of us who take the sport more serious....not to be taken advantage of by cheater scumbags.

[MICHAEL]

This pretty much sums up my sentiment real well. Handicaps are there to give beginners and casual players a chance against those of us who take the sport more serious....not to be taken advantage of by cheater scumbags.

YES Hampe,,, a great adjective! "cheater scumbag"! If any of you are out there, "GO look in the mirror right now"!

Are you back..... NOW YOU KNOW what a sandbagger looks like!

I have seen this scum, in action on a huge league at AMF NKC. almost 48 lanes full,,, on a given Saturday night. I was subbing for a bowling God around here Pat Henderson! I still remember this Gal with a solid 200 average, throing a gutter ball in the 10 frame knowing they had already won that game. "she smiled when it happened, tipping Ice off that it was her way of saying, We beat you, and since its the third game and we can't get total pins, " I am gong to keep my average from going up!"

Made me want to go over grab one of her 14lb balls and CRUSH IT IN TH PALM OF MY HAND!! This is Scum!

The more the prize money in a league, and the larger that league, the more this ugly scum comes to the surface.

ICEMAN bowls for the GLORY of the TEAM! MONEY, can be the ROOT of this evil that threatens to destroy bowling!

Why is bowling DOWN..... its SANDBAGGERS!!!

In the 1700s and 1800's they use to TAR and FEATHER Sandbaggers! Guess what?????? that took care of it for several hundreds of years!!!

Should we bring it back today....???? In those days they took their whisky, and bowling serious!!!

the guy below was caught RED handed sandbagging.... notice the very uncomfortable position straddling the pole, and the rejoice of the young boy blowing his horn!!
Even kids don't like sandbaggers!!!

[MICHAEL]

This unnamed person, sandbagged just ONCE to many times!

[fsbjcm]

People accused me of being a sandbagger in my summer league last week. I have and never will sandbag. I'm still learning how to bowl! I just started a few months ago! So I have a 120 game sandwiched in between 180 games, and I'm a sandbagger. Nope, I just managed to get the 10 pin out in the 180 games

I bowled a no-tap event last night and had a 300 game, and you would've thought I bowled a 900 no tap series. "You're a 148 average bowler! You shouldn't be bowling this good! You're sandbagging!"

Makes me very angry.