If knowledge is power, why........

[mc_runner]

Yeah, I think it's a lot different comparing say, a 9.9sec track runner vs a 220 average bowler, or a pro football player to a 220 average bowler. It's kind of a strawman - There's a handful of people who can do either of those things thanks to physical attributes most others don't have, so of course most of us can't just go out and DO that. Bowling is a much more mental game than simply being a freak of nature. And where I get bothered by the 220 average thing is how many people in houses have a 220+ average? Thinking on mine, on a THS... at least a couple dozen. And there's that kind of number in many houses all over the country. That's thousands of people with 220+ averages. I don't think they all have some type of "gift" that other people don't have.

[MICHAEL]

Here's where we disagree. The "Gift" can either be innate, or it can be developed.

OK,,, LET me say this about that! LOL I AGREE! But for the average bowler without the gift, ( YOUR NEVER going to be a Pete Weber!) regardless of how much time you put in, or coaching!

YES the metaphor I call THE GIFT, might also be called A PERSONS POTENTIAL base on the essence of YOU!

If you have A Gift, can it be developed with coaching???? SURE!!!

Have there been some VERY GIFTED, that excelled with out much coaching or training,,, YES! One example would be Babe Ruth! From what I have read about him, he was not into training, or even being coached, but did become one of the all time greats based on A FEW THINGS, Beer, Cigars, and Women! LOL

Could his Gift been developed to EVEN A HIGHER degree with TRAINING, and listening to Coaches,,, YES!! But then he had the GIFT TO BEGININ with!

There is NO disagreement between you and me in that a GIFTED person can take his/her gift to a higher level with someone helping to DEVELOPE that GIFT!

The SAD thing is this, we are all limited to OUR LEVEL of excellence, based on our Gift! (

[fortheloveofbowling]

Yeah, I think it's a lot different comparing say, a 9.9sec track runner vs a 220 average bowler, or a pro football player to a 220 average bowler. It's kind of a strawman - There's a handful of people who can do either of those things thanks to physical attributes most others don't have, so of course most of us can't just go out and DO that. Bowling is a much more mental game than simply being a freak of nature. And where I get bothered by the 220 average thing is how many people in houses have a 220+ average? Thinking on mine, on a THS... at least a couple dozen. And there's that kind of number in many houses all over the country. That's thousands of people with 220+ averages. I don't think they all have some type of "gift" that other people don't have.

The 220 average really depends on the house you bowl in also. It depends on the house shot they put out. For instance in phoenix there are lots of bowling centers with a big difference in par for an average. There are a few places i would almost guarantee a lot of you would average 10+ higher than you are now.

[MICHAEL]

Yeah, I think it's a lot different comparing say, a 9.9sec track runner vs a 220 average bowler, or a pro football player to a 220 average bowler. It's kind of a strawman - There's a handful of people who can do either of those things thanks to physical attributes most others don't have, so of course most of us can't just go out and DO that. Bowling is a much more mental game than simply being a freak of nature. And where I get bothered by the 220 average thing is how many people in houses have a 220+ average? Thinking on mine, on a THS... at least a couple dozen. And there's that kind of number in many houses all over the country. That's thousands of people with 220+ averages. I don't think they all have some type of "gift" that other people don't have.

In my short time bowling, I have talked to MANY, Many people, and ask a lot of questions. I know, many that have bowled for 20 years or more, good bowlers, that have NEVER reach that 220 level. Many have never bowled a 300 game or 800 series.

Sure its mental, and many things other things, but even the MENTAL can be related to your DNA, and ability to perform tasks! Some are just PLAN better at then others! Don't under estimate your 220 plus average, even if its on THS... I know dozens, of long term bowlers that have never reach that level on house oil!

I am going to enjoy watching Aslan as the years progress, I hope he can PROVE ME WRONG! I hope I prove myself Wrong,,, even though I have had Two 300's within 6 months of each other, and a 780 , and a dozen or so other 700 games, in my short time bowling, I know I am not Gifted.

I just have my moments!! LOL... LOL!!

And you know what,,, ICEMAN not being gifted in bowling is OK,,, I enjoy my GREAT MOEMNTS... I am not good enough to be a 220 or higher bowler, but that doesn't mean Iam going to quite trying!!!! ICE is a DREAMER!! ( One thing for sure, if I think I can't, I never will!

I just wish I would have got started in bowling in my youth...

[rv driver]

In my short time bowling, I have talked to MANY, Many people, and ask a lot of questions. I know, many that have bowled for 20 years or more, good bowlers, that have NEVER reach that 220 level. Many have never bowled a 300 game or 800 series.

Sure its mental, and many things other things, but even the MENTAL can be related to your DNA, and ability to perform tasks! Some are just PLAN better at then others! Don't under estimate your 220 plus average, even if its on THS... I know dozens, of long term bowlers that have never reach that level on house oil!

I am going to enjoy watching Aslan as the years progress, I hope he can PROVE ME WRONG! I hope I prove myself Wrong,,, even though I have had Two 300's within 6 months of each other, and a 780 , and a dozen or so other 700 games, in my short time bowling, I know I am not Gifted.

I just have my moments!! LOL... LOL!!

And you know what,,, ICEMAN not being gifted in bowling is OK,,, I enjoy my GREAT MOEMNTS... I am not good enough to be a 220 or higher bowler, but that doesn't mean Iam going to quite trying!!!! ICE is a DREAMER!! ( One thing for sure, if I think I can't, I never will!

I just wish I would have got started in bowling in my youth...

Oh yeah. I'm with you here for sure! Except for one thing: Maybe you DO have the Gift -- you just waited a long time to develop it. Your age may, at this point, be the determining factor of where your ceiling is going to be. You're slower,weaker, not as limber, etc. But if you've got the games you say you have -- without coaching, maybe you DO have the Gift.

[bowl1820]

There are two mindsets.

The "Fixed mindset" where you believe that peoples talents and abilities are simply fixed. That you have a certain amount and that’s that.


and then there's

The "Growth mindset" where you think of talents and abilities as things that you can develop, through hardwork, practice and coaching.

Having a growth mindset doesn't mean you believe that everyone has the same potential or that anyone can be Walter Ray. Just that Walter Ray didn't become Walter Ray without years of hardwork, practice and coaching.

Most of the great players have had a growth mindset. They pushed themselves, they looked at their game and fixed the weaknesses.

With the growth mindset you can reach ever higher levels of achievement, But with the fixed limit mindset you'll just plateau.

Because if you believe your abilities are limited and don't have the "gift". Then your right you'll never be a 220 average bowler, because you've drawn a line and decided not try and cross it.

[rv driver]

There are two mindsets.

The "Fixed mindset" where you believe that peoples talents and abilities are simply fixed. That you have a certain amount and that’s that.


and then there's

The "Growth mindset" where you think of talents and abilities as things that you can develop, through hardwork, practice and coaching.

Having a growth mindset doesn't mean you believe that everyone has the same potential or that anyone can be Walter Ray. Just that Walter Ray didn't become Walter Ray without years of hardwork, practice and coaching.

Most of the great players have had a growth mindset. They pushed themselves, they looked at their game and fixed the weaknesses.

With the growth mindset you can reach ever higher levels of achievement, But with the fixed limit mindset you'll just plateau.

Because if you believe your abilities are limited and don't have the "gift". Then your right you'll never be a 220 average bowler, because you've drawn a line and decided not try and cross it.

Very good point this. In a sense we are limited only by what we can imagine for ourselves.

[MICHAEL]

Very good point this. In a sense we are limited only by what we can imagine for ourselves.

You know rv driver, I hear that line a lot growing up,,, but it sounds GREAT, and to a degree ,,,, DEGREE, there is some truth to it.

You have also heard the saying: If you think you can't , YOU CAN"T! To a degree, its correct also.

But just thinking you CAN, then WORKING HARD TOWARD THAT GOAL, doesn't mean your going to get there in SPORTS. There are many other things that can prevent that from happening, including your genetics!

There are some goals that just require HARD WORK! Like a job, a family, a hobby, ect ect.. I prime example could be Thomas Edison, the inventor.
In his case it was HARD WORK, trial and error OVER ,,, and OVER,,, and OVER,,, until he got it right!

But millions of young men and women in this country with talent, and hard work, even coaching, never REACH THE GIFTED LEVEL!

Mind over matter does not always apply! WE, in my opinion,,, do need that Special DNA, that allows to fly with the eagles.

Example, say you bowling 1820, Do you have a 220 plus average on any of your leagues this last year? YOU HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE, and know bowling better then most of us on the site put together! I would include Rob in your category! I know he doesn't have that average also, with all his knowledge! Sure there is the physical limitations,, sore back,,, feet,,,, you name it, hey I have all that plus RA! LOL But I never use it as and excuse, I hunker down and Focus, I give my all, but fall short of that mark. I have posted many pictures of scores on this site, its so easy to make up crap, and have caught some, doing just that. Yet, I know guys that bowl that 220 and above that have never been coached, and many don't even practice, yet have THAT GIFT!


knowledge, practice, desire, and positive thoughts, don't guaranty a 220 and above average. To some bowling just COMES EASY, along with the high scores.

AGAIN,,, Coaching and practice ARE GOOD THINGS, but you better go to the Farmers Market and buy yourself 5 lbs of good bowling DNA, in order to reach that GIFTED LEVEL.

I am hopping that Aslan makes that goal,,, then I will BELIEVE that Coaching, hard work, and practice can get you to that 220 average for multiple leagues.

The MAIN THING IS TO HAVE FUN,,,, LOL,,, and I have WAY TOO MUCH bowling with my present average!! (

If heaven doesn't have bowling, then that would be a huge STRIKE against going there!! LOL

[bowl1820]

Example, say you bowling 1820, Do you have a 220 plus average on any of your leagues this last year?

No I don't,
Why? Because I don't put the effort into it.


You make the assumption that all the great bowlers have the "Gift", because they must have the "Gift" if they are great, It's circular reasoning and precludes the possibility that they became great through hard work, practice and coaching.

Yes hard work, practice and coaching doesn't guarantee greatness.

But knowing "guys that bowl that 220 and above that have never been coached, and many don't even practice" doesn't disprove that hard work, practice and coaching won't get you there. (Though a lot will say that it does prove just how easy the conditions are today).

[MICHAEL]

No I don't,
Why? Because I don't put the effort into it.

Really ??? You put a lot of time in here, and we ALL APPRECIATE IT!! Don't get me WRONG, but I disagree. Question, have you ever been at that level in your younger days? I also wonder if Rob has ever been at that level.

You make the assumption that all the great bowlers have the "Gift", because they must have the "Gift" if they are great, It's circular reasoning and precludes the possibility that they became great through hard work, practice and coaching.

It may, or may not be circular reasoning! It could be a Fact, (if were getting into WHAT MIGHT BE)

A Study was done in Poland back in 1938, where they looked at the gifted bowlers in the small town of Ekoj, where they studied the DNA of gifted bowlers, Using Polish logic, they found that the higher level bowlers, were not POLISH, but hybrids, and that their DNA did suggest huge advantages.

The report went on to say that, Good coaching, and practice DID NOT help the AVERAGE Polish bowlers, BUT DID HELP THE Hybrids, reach and even higher level in some cases

Their conclusions were, Bowing is a GIFT! You either have it, or you don't.

Interesting side note to that study was this: Bowlers that had less then a 220 average had a lot more FUN then those with. Conclusion was
based on Polish logic.

Yes hard work, practice and coaching doesn't guarantee greatness.

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT!!! LOL ( I agree....

But knowing "guys that bowl that 220 and above that have never been coached, and many don't even practice" doesn't disprove that hard work, practice and coaching won't get you there. (Though a lot will say that it does prove just how easy the conditions are today).

YES,,,, but that's Selective Logic. Doesn't disprove either! You know I like Aslan in some strange demented way, but lets see if HE CAN get his average up to 220. I know he works hard at his game, and is getting coaching. If he does get to that ( what I call gifted average), I will
eat a piece of cow liver, and ride my bike out to CA, and kiss his feet!!

Your last statement is interesting, IF it is that easy, and I agree, why is it YOU, ROB, and MYSELF DON"T HAVE 220 averages.... ?

WE don't have the gift! ( (( I KNOW YOU, Rob, and myself don't put in enough hard work, and in my case get the coaching. BECAUSE YOU AND ROB obviously have the knowledge! Only thing missing I assume would be HARD WORD!

What is HARD WORK,,,, since you and Rob have a LOTS OF KNOWLEDGE,,,, how much would you need to practice in order to reach what I think is that GIFTED LEVEL?

I wonder how many games Rob, and you do bowl a week?

I wonder in your prime,,, where either of you 220 bowlers....

conclusion:
For many I have talked to, you either have it or you don't,,,, many said it just CAME EASY to them! ( THE BOWLING GODS GIFT)!

THIS MY FRIENDS IS A PICTURE OF THE GIFTED BOWLER~~