If knowledge is power, why........

[RobLV1]

Michael: It's really just a matter of defining the level of the "gift" that got all of this started. Does Pete Weber have a gift? Undoubtedly. Does Walter Ray Williams have a gift. Yes. The same can be said for Chris Barnes, Jason Belmonte, Sean Rash, and anyone else that competes at that level. Will coaching and hard work get a non-gifted bowler to that level? No. Will coaching and hard work get a non-gifted bowler to be able to average 220 on a house shot? I think so. Unfortunately, today a 220 average on a house shot really doesn't mean much to anyone other than those who are not willing to put in the effort to get there.

[MICHAEL]

Michael: It's really just a matter of defining the level of the "gift" that got all of this started.




I AGREE!

Does Pete Weber have a gift? Undoubtedly. Does Walter Ray Williams have a gift. Yes. The same can be said for Chris Barnes, Jason Belmonte, Sean Rash, and anyone else that competes at that level.

I AGREE!

Will coaching and hard work get a non-gifted bowler to that level? No.

I AGREE!

Will coaching and hard work get a non-gifted bowler to be able to average 220 on a house shot? I think so.

HUMMM,,,, here is where the gray area is! I know you are a treasure trove of knowledge along with bowl1820! Iceman is NOT... LOL! In YOUR case Rob, that easy 220 level as you put it, and being retired, bowling and coaching as much as you do, and the fact that you have never been at that 220 level even in your youth, makes me think, THERE IS ANOTHER ingredient NEEDED to be at that 220/230 level on even HOUSE OIL!
It goes beyond simply knowledge, and lots of repetitive practice. The Gift, might not be the best word for it, how about "Natural innate Abality."

Unfortunately, today a 220 average on a house shot really doesn't mean much to anyone other than those who are not willing to put in the effort to get there.

HUMMM,,, LOL,,, maybe to YOU it doesn't mean anything,,, but to ICEMAN it would mean a great deal. As easy as it supposedly is, how much hard work does it take to get to that level.

How many hours would YOU have to put in to get to that level , where you have never been yourself?


Check out another friend of mine, Pat Henderson, Kansas City MO. Go to USBC and look him up. I have subbed for him on a league a few times last winter. This guy knows bowling, never played in college, had a little coaching in his high school years, but has that 220 and higher level on all his leagues. HE HAS THE GIFT!

HE doesn't practice, other then the 3 or 4 leagues he plays on. HE is 60 years old, and even has health issues. Godzilla amounts of 300s and 800s!
did another 800 a couple weeks ago on a seniors league we bowl on together.

He is just one out of many I have questioned about HOW they bowl that 220 or higher level. One thing almost all of them have in common, I have talked to is, Natural Gift, comes easy!

Pat unlike the example you gave of the guy that did everything wrong and had that 220 average on house oil. Pat does it pretty much right, I have seen him use two different balls during league play on different lanes, use different hand positions, he knows how to play a lane, but more then that he has the Gift, or natural ability.

In conclusion: It's might be easier to have that 220 average now vs the old days, but its still not that easy, and sure SOME that put long hours in even without coaching can get to that level, ( YOU GIVING the example of the guy that did EVERYTHING WRONG, but had the 220 average), because he was repetitive , but even a repetitive bowler has to read the lanes and make many adjustments depending on WHAT lanes he might be on, and even the team he is bowling against!

I think we agree on most things related to THE GIFT, ( I know I don't have you knowledge in bowling, but I have competed on a high level in two other sports in college), One Thing I know for Sure about those two sports, HARD WORK, AND COACHING is a given, but the ones that excel are the Gifted ones! We are not all gifted.

And that 220 level in not the ultimate level by any means, but it is a level that is tough to reach, and many never get there. Again,,, how many hours would you have to put in, to reach that 220 or above on house oil? How many hours do you put in now, or do you bowl this summer?

Does every student you have had reach that 220 or higher level, if they put their time in? Can you honestly say that everyone you have coached reaches that level, if they put their time in?

I think it goes far beyond repetitive movement, you have to have the ability to read the lanes, and make many adjustments! Its not as simple as you make it bowling 220 or higher!

God knows I try.... LOL (

[rv driver]

What would put the cap on this argument would be to put these "220+ Gifted bowlers" all warehoused in KC, up against Belmonte, Rash, Williams, Bohn, Duke, Weber, Barnes in a PBA match on sport shots -- on TV. Then we'll see who has the "Gift."

[vdubtx]

What would put the cap on this argument would be to put these "220+ Gifted bowlers" all warehoused in KC, up against Belmonte, Rash, Williams, Bohn, Duke, Weber, Barnes in a PBA match on sport shots -- on TV. Then we'll see who has the "Gift."

Boom! /thread

Those KC "gifted" bowlers or any of us plebs, would not stand a chance.

[rv driver]

Boom! /thread

Those KC "gifted" bowlers or any of us plebs, would not stand a chance.

I think that's pretty much the acid test that would show which "control group" has had their balls drop.

[Aslan]

Michael: It's really just a matter of defining the level of the "gift" that got all of this started. Does Pete Weber have a gift? Undoubtedly. Does Walter Ray Williams have a gift. Yes. The same can be said for Chris Barnes, Jason Belmonte, Sean Rash, and anyone else that competes at that level.

But to be honest, they also play a LOT of Wii bowling to get that good. Not all of us have a Wii so we're at a disadvantage.

[MICHAEL]

But to be honest, they also play a LOT of Wii bowling to get that good. Not all of us have a Wii so we're at a disadvantage.

I THINK you on to something here Aslan!!!! The day I did my 300, 780 a last season, I did Wii bowling that afternoon until I bloodied my right hand.
Could it be that Wii owners have a huge advantage, Wii, Wii,,,, say the French!!

[MICHAEL]

What would put the cap on this argument would be to put these "220+ Gifted bowlers" all warehoused in KC, up against Belmonte, Rash, Williams, Bohn, Duke, Weber, Barnes in a PBA match on sport shots -- on TV. Then we'll see who has the "Gift."

they fall into the category of what's called: Super Gifted!

solid 220 average league house oil bowlers fall into the average gifted!

There are degrees of gifted!

[MICHAEL]

Boom! /thread

Those KC "gifted" bowlers or any of us plebs, would not stand a chance.

ON HOUSE OIL,,,, I would put Pat Henderson against any of them! House Oil as Rob says, is EASY!! Almost anyone can roll a 220 average on thoses conditions, any one but most on this site, with the exception of you vdubtx!

All you that have a 220 solid in all your THS oil leagues post your USBC number, and average.... lets see how EASY it is!?

I will get Pats USBC number and post it!

[Mudpuppy]

ON HOUSE OIL,,,, I would put Pat Henderson against any of them! House Oil as Rob says, is EASY!! Almost anyone can roll a 220 average on thoses conditions, any one but most on this site, with the exception of you vdubtx!

All you that have a 220 solid in all your THS oil leagues post your USBC number, and average.... lets see how EASY it is!?

I will get Pats USBC number and post it!

Iceman - have you ever rolled a 300 or more than 1 300 game? If so please post about it. We would like to hear the story.