USBC Contact (That will Listen!!!)

[Iceman]

Here's the response from our Local USBC Organization regarding the City Tournament:

First off to your question about pro's. By rule we have to allow any member of the Gr. Cincinnati USBC BA whether a pro or amateur to participate in the City Championship.

As far as lane conditions, we had made the condition tougher over the last few years. The result was we lost entries. We did not attempt to make the condition easy this year, however, we did intend to loosen it up from what we had used over the past few years.

I understand that some bowlers get upset if the condition is too easy, but for every complaint I get about that, I get an equal number of complaints when the shot is too demanding. There is no lane condition we can put out that will make everyone happy.

As far as making more divisions. I would love to have about 5 divisions and make every one of them scratch. However, with the limited number of teams that bowl now if you pair down the divisions even more, the prize money would be so small that noone would participate.

More bowlers equals the possibility of more divisions. That is the constant battle that we face. I thank you for your comments.

[Iceman]

Here's the response from our Local USBC Organization regarding the City Tournament:

First off to your question about pro's. By rule we have to allow any member of the Gr. Cincinnati USBC BA whether a pro or amateur to participate in the City Championship.

As far as lane conditions, we had made the condition tougher over the last few years. The result was we lost entries. We did not attempt to make the condition easy this year, however, we did intend to loosen it up from what we had used over the past few years.

I understand that some bowlers get upset if the condition is too easy, but for every complaint I get about that, I get an equal number of complaints when the shot is too demanding. There is no lane condition we can put out that will make everyone happy.

As far as making more divisions. I would love to have about 5 divisions and make every one of them scratch. However, with the limited number of teams that bowl now if you pair down the divisions even more, the prize money would be so small that noone would participate.

More bowlers equals the possibility of more divisions. That is the constant battle that we face. I thank you for your comments.

When people complain about the tougher shots, these are the ones that think they are good because of the walled up house conditions. I don't understand why someone wouldn't want to get better on any shot and shoot 190's to win a game. Everyone wants to shoot 269's or better to win. I would rather bowl a 550 and get through tourney rounds and feel like I "bowled" my best with accuracy and spare shooting. Everyone can hit the pocket - not everyone can spare. Isn't this what bowling is about, spare shooting? 9 strikes and a missed spare = a bad game right?

[onefrombills]

Im not going to repost to all the posts after mine but here is the easier said but done answer


WE SHOULD ALL BOWL ON A USBC SPORT OR PBA EXPERIENCE SHOT

This is where you as a bowler call or talk to your LOCAL USBC office because speaking as a local USBC director we work for our local bowlers ....now again from the press release that was posted above I see Kurt Pilon name listed above and yeah he didnt fair too well on tour but maybe personal but a target on his back and try to beat him.

Out here in Arizona we have Mike Haugen Jr(PBA Exempt), Andrew Cain(PBA Exempt), Tina Stickney (Team USA), Brett Wolfe(ABC Masters Champ/won it with the blue hammer, also avg over 250 a season ago) we have a scratch tournament club out here and what do you think there doing on their time off...there bowling locally. What about down in Texas when the tour's on break Chris and Linda Barnes, Wes they need something to do on their break. Let them bowl and make the rest of us show up to bowl. No matter what the shot ever is you need to bowl better than just your best to win.

[Iceman]

If this was a City Tournament, then the issue is with the local association, not Nationals. My recommendation is to get involved as a director in the association. I would also recommend you attend the annual open meeting and bring friends who feel the same way as you do.

A suggestion is to not keep the local pros out of the tournament, but use divisions and have the top division be set so that it really only includes the elite bowlers. I doubt a City or State Tournament can exclude a USBC dues paying member from participation because they also hold a PBA Card.

You bring up a valid point - regarding Nationals - when bowlers go there, they know it's NOT a typical house shot, but they still go? Why does the local organization think bowlers won't go if they toughen the shot like Nationals? It's like there are 2 different scenarios within the USBC organization? I'm not trying to start a revolution, I'm sure I'm not the first to think this, I just want the USBC to tough the shot up, and compete, even if they have to add additional tourneys to do it. Sweepers are ok, - but from one house to another, it's the house mouses - and most of them don't go to other house sweepers. I've been to a few sweepers this year at other houses, usually a THS so it's not showing me I learned anything.

[Iceman]

Im not going to repost to all the posts after mine but here is the easier said but done answer


WE SHOULD ALL BOWL ON A USBC SPORT OR PBA EXPERIENCE SHOT

This is where you as a bowler call or talk to your LOCAL USBC office because speaking as a local USBC director we work for our local bowlers ....now again from the press release that was posted above I see Kurt Pilon name listed above and yeah he didnt fair too well on tour but maybe personal but a target on his back and try to beat him.

Out here in Arizona we have Mike Haugen Jr(PBA Exempt), Andrew Cain(PBA Exempt), Tina Stickney (Team USA), Brett Wolfe(ABC Masters Champ/won it with the blue hammer, also avg over 250 a season ago) we have a scratch tournament club out here and what do you think there doing on their time off...there bowling locally. What about down in Texas when the tour's on break Chris and Linda Barnes, Wes they need something to do on their break. Let them bowl and make the rest of us show up to bowl. No matter what the shot ever is you need to bowl better than just your best to win.

Now this is an explanation, maybe I assumed they were missing pro tourneys to bowl locally in City. I'm sure there are ppl out there like that, but I guess I have to give them the benefit of the doubt here.

I will just speak locally and see if they can or will do something - even if I have to come up with a suggestion to make it fit. Thanks Brian!

One other thing - How do you bowl better than just your best to win? Maybe you mistyped it, but that kind of sounds like one of the other post headings about oxy morons. No pun intended here.

[onefrombills]

Isn't this what bowling is about, spare shooting? 9 strikes and a missed spare = a bad game right?

I really hate to say no its not anymore......The balls have gotten so much technologically behind them now that its all about how many strikes can I throw and when you dont strike you go to your bag and take another one of the six you brought out

[bowl1820]

I believe I get your point

That the pro's are so good that when they enter a small local tournament, the majority of the "amateur" bowlers can't compete with nthem. So they (the pros) shouldn't be allowed to bowl in them.Plus conditions for tournaments should be tougher.

Let me pose a question.

Where in a USBC sanctioned tournament would you draw the line for PBA members who could or couldn't enter it?

1-No PBA members at all
2-Just No National Touring members
3-No National Touring or Regional touring members
4-No National Touring or Regional touring members that have bowled over X number of tournaments in a specified time period.

Now also if you restrict PBA members from tournaments what about leagues? The same argument for not having them in a tournament applies to leagues also. So should PBA members not be allowed in leagues also.

Then what about high level amateurs? There are plenty of them that are just as good as pros. Having division's is fine, but you have to have enough entries to do it. Your local assoc response was a valid one.

with the limited number of teams that bowl now if you pair down the divisions even more, the prize money would be so small that no one would participate.

As for tournament conditions.
I think the shot should be more challenging than a THS. But finding that challenging but fair shot is a hard task.The response of "There is no lane condition we can put out that will make everyone happy." from the local assoc. is a valid one.

Shoot People still complain about the shot for lefty's vs righty's in tournaments about what's fair.

[kev3inp]

Now there's a point. What are the "pros" doing in a tournament that has been softened up for the typical house mouse? Aren't there regionals that they could be bowling instead or are they making so much money off the donators, and they can't cash in their own events, that it makes it economically viable? Give them their own brackets then or announce to all concerned that they're in and see how much bracket action you get. If it's a handicap tournament why not penalize them pins over to even up the field? Oh, that wouldn't be fair? Sounds pretty fair to me, but then I'm not averaging 240 in my league.

Sorry, I'm with Iceman on this one.

[Iceman]

I agree - everyone should bowl on tougher shots through leagues and tournaments, they should not soften the shot to get more participation.

At minimum, I think every house should have a winter league or a few leagues that are tougher patterns, but the house wants to fill an entire league, so it's about money there also.

It's just hard for bowlers that want to get better and compete - have to go play a soften shot, throw all strikes to compete and gain experience. The pro's today did this in the past, but the shots were not as easy back then.

I've watched video's from 70 and 80 decades on PBA bowling, before the palm trees and sunglasses were a requirement, they were good, because of their accuracy and spare shooting. Bowling is about stringing strikes, and when you have 8 in a row and leave a solid 8 (righty), you just lost your game.

Maybe this is just opening my eyes more to the major differences in the game. Leagues included, I realize I'm not a 230 avg house mouse, I love to go play harder shots and see how I compare. Maybe there's not many like me anymore - everyone wants to shoot a 269 and get their 800. But these people need to realize, even on the THS, they still don't do it, they are happy with 600's or 700's. Then they complain cause they can't carry single pins. It's a no win situation really - but there has to be a solution. I know the USBC is modifying the regulation on the coverstocks, how this is going to reflect everything? I haven't read a lot about the modifications so I don't understand it 100%. I know this will effect manufacturers remaking balls, so this will show in costs, but what about the shots? I say bring back the white / yellow dot - flat the pattern and let everyone bowl. People have just got so hung up on a specific ball anymore, it's crazy to me. I experiement with all the manufacturers and throw whichever one I do that night, every ball will work on any condition, but you may lose the "room" or "floating" that another ball would have. So what? This is called being accurate and targeting - this is what makes you a better bowler that night, not that you had 5 board room margin and carried.

Tournaments to me - are progress measurements - I go in wanting to not throw the best I can without making mistakes - I really try to be fine with my shots - even when I make a mistake and carry, I don't react like I meant that - or when I watch someone throwing 15 and flank 1 out to 3 and come back to pocket and carry and he's chest pumping on his way back, I don't acknowledge that.

Many bowlers, don't see that as lucky - they just throw the same thing next time, not caring what board they hit, only if they strike. Put a shot that details accuracy and consistency. I've watch many pro tourneys, and you don't see many weeks that pro's are flanking one and pulling the hell out of the next and winning tournaments. They are precise and it's what makes them great.

[Iceman]

As for tournament conditions.
I think the shot should be more challenging than a THS. But finding that challenging but fair shot is a hard task.The response of "There is no lane condition we can put out that will make everyone happy." from the local assoc. is a valid one.

Shoot People still complain about the shot for lefty's vs righty's in tournaments about what's fair.

I agree to a point - but putting a shot down that is tough and make you detail accuracy and speed, will determine spare shooting and if you string strikes, hat's off. Just reduce the margin for error - the shot will be the same for everyone, but I guess people don't really want to find out how bad they really are from a walled up shot (that makes them get to the pocket)

The Lefty/Righty saga will never end - I have read articles from PBA bowlers stating this exact same thing. I say - for lefty's (who play 5 and no where else) take a bug spray, squirt 1 spot on the lane about 20 feet down around 5 and get it on. Some will figure it out, everyone else will be lost.