USBC Contact (That will Listen!!!)

[Iceman]

I just got my first taste of our USBC in action at an official tournament - how tainted the shot was, it was a THS and they invited the pro's. I saw 4 of them there cleaning house in brackets. They put them in with us in bracket slots and 2 of them got in HDCP brackets along with scratch. I shot 769 - put in $90 in brackets and got through half my brackets, but lost to a Pro - he goes 289, shoots 825 series.

The shot was so easy, it was all about carry. This was not bowling, it was a carry slaughter - either you did or you didn't. I saw so many people playing 6 to 18 and getting to the pocket. And the USBC is proud of all the 700 and 800's shot, after 2 weekends, already 4 800's, 2 were lefty (but they always shoot good) atleast 1 was not a pro. And the best thing about this all, get up Monday morning, read the newspaper and nothing about any bowling. Why? Everyone does it. Just to state it, I'm not taking anything away from the pro's; they are great bowlers - but put them in their league not in ours. We can't go bowl in their tournaments because we know better, they bowl in ours cause they know they can win money.

I would like to know if anyone knows anyone at the USBC that will listen or what can be done - maybe start a petition to make them take a stand on invitational events. Make it a shot where you have to bowl, not shoot a 247 and look around to see which 12 people beat you.

Sorry, just a unexpected tournament - I shot good, still lost money. Losing the money is not the issue, the issue is losing the money to a pro. Match pro's against pro and everyone else against everyone else. I don't see college players playing football or baseball against the NFL or Major League teams, so why in bowling.

[bowl1820]

What tournament was this? and which pros?

[The KingPin]

I just got my first taste of our USBC in action at an official tournament - how tainted the shot was, it was a THS and they invited the pro's. I saw 4 of them there cleaning house in brackets. They put them in with us in bracket slots and 2 of them got in HDCP brackets along with scratch. I shot 769 - put in $90 in brackets and got through half my brackets, but lost to a Pro - he goes 289, shoots 825 series.

The shot was so easy, it was all about carry. This was not bowling, it was a carry slaughter - either you did or you didn't. I saw so many people playing 6 to 18 and getting to the pocket. And the USBC is proud of all the 700 and 800's shot, after 2 weekends, already 4 800's, 2 were lefty (but they always shoot good) atleast 1 was not a pro. And the best thing about this all, get up Monday morning, read the newspaper and nothing about any bowling. Why? Everyone does it. Just to state it, I'm not taking anything away from the pro's; they are great bowlers - but put them in their league not in ours. We can't go bowl in their tournaments because we know better, they bowl in ours cause they know they can win money.

I would like to know if anyone knows anyone at the USBC that will listen or what can be done - maybe start a petition to make them take a stand on invitational events. Make it a shot where you have to bowl, not shoot a 247 and look around to see which 12 people beat you.

Sorry, just a unexpected tournament - I shot good, still lost money. Losing the money is not the issue, the issue is losing the money to a pro. Match pro's against pro and everyone else against everyone else. I don't see college players playing football or baseball against the NFL or Major League teams, so why in bowling.

Wow sorry to here that. Any ideas how to make the tournaments better?

[onefrombills]

There is nothing that can or will happened..... USBC will not do anything because there was nothing wrong here. Just because someone has a PBA card Does not make them any different than you and me. They still pay there USBC dues just like us. It is sad that the HOUSE you bowled at put out a very soft shot and the better players weather that had a card or not whacked them. You should be upset with the center that held this tournament and not with USBC because they didn't do anything wrong.

[The KingPin]

There is nothing that can or will happened..... USBC will not do anything because there was nothing wrong here. Just because someone has a PBA card Does not make them any different than you and me. They still pay there USBC dues just like us. It is sad that the HOUSE you bowled at put out a very soft shot and the better players weather that had a card or not whacked them. You should be upset with the center that held this tournament and not with USBC because they didn't do anything wrong.

Hmm I understand now. Thanks for clearing it up for me.

[Iceman]

There is nothing that can or will happened..... USBC will not do anything because there was nothing wrong here. Just because someone has a PBA card Does not make them any different than you and me. They still pay there USBC dues just like us. It is sad that the HOUSE you bowled at put out a very soft shot and the better players weather that had a card or not whacked them. You should be upset with the center that held this tournament and not with USBC because they didn't do anything wrong.

Define having a PBA card? I understand what it is, and what's it's for but we all know Brian Himmler, who is from Hamilton, Ohio. It's just seems like he took advantage of it, he's a great bowler, deadly accurate - no doubt. I've met him once before, but I just don't think it's a fair hand shake. Everyone should have a chance in brackets without having to bowl their best series ever to win.

The only thing I think is wrong is they let Pro's in "our" non-pro tourneys. We can't go bowl in their tourneys ( Not like we would want to either). Maybe I'm missing the point there, but I did voice my concerns to the tourney director and he simply said the shot is there for everyone, USBC decided the shot. I just wished I would have known, I could have saved in brackets - it's just doesn't seem right.

What would be the difference in a home run derby tournament, and having Pujols or Junior come play in it? How fair would that be? They do that for a living?????

The USBC has changed a lot over the years, we can all see it. Dues go up, less and even less awards are given out - WHY? Because everyone is doing it, not just once a year, but a few hundred a year. I remember reading an article about the award ratio to the number of bowlers, they need to compare apples to apples. They were comparing awards given to the total number of bowlers vs games bowled. That's like saying the amount of insurance saved each year is $10 per person - totalling the number of people in the united states. What about the ones that don't buy or even have insurance? They don't count there but they are included in the stats (Marketing scheme). It's the same for a family of 4 that goes bowling 1 time a year. They are all included in the statistics.

The worst thing about our City tourney, you can get in $10 scratch Masters, they take top 25. Honestly, competing against them is out of my league, I'll be the first to admit it. I'm not that accurate and still have a lot to learn aboiut the game, but why should they come in, take our spots and not let us get the experience needed to advance our games? I'm just so aggravated with entire USBC tourney decisions, it's all about money. They couldn't get the bid for the same house, so they combined women and men on same week-end to get the bid accepted.

That's what I don't understand about it all. But I didn't think anyone would even listen to the concern at USBC, I'm sure this is the same crap that has been going on for years. Once they figure out a oil pattern to pick up spares, everyone would be 200 avg. Ok - Enough Venting - Thanks for giving a place to type it out.

[ThongPrincess]

If this was a City Tournament, then the issue is with the local association, not Nationals. My recommendation is to get involved as a director in the association. I would also recommend you attend the annual open meeting and bring friends who feel the same way as you do.

A suggestion is to not keep the local pros out of the tournament, but use divisions and have the top division be set so that it really only includes the elite bowlers. I doubt a City or State Tournament can exclude a USBC dues paying member from participation because they also hold a PBA Card.

[bowl1820]

"It's just seems like he took advantage of it" How doe's one take advantage of being in the PBA ?

I agree with onefrombills "Just because someone has a PBA card Does not make them any different than you and me." They pay their USBC dues just like us and bowl in the same leagues as we do.

I know it will be said they do it for a"living" meaning that they have a lot more experience from going around to different tournaments.

But how would that differ from the 230 ave amateur that bowls several leagues and runs around to all the amateur tournaments. Other than the fact that one has PBA card and the other don't.

as for "We can't go bowl in their tourneys" actually you can as a Non-Member. you fill out the form pays your money your in. Also Some tournaments have sweepers before the PBA tournament and you can win a entry into the main event.

And for "Everyone should have a chance in brackets without having to bowl their best series ever to win."

Brackets, Tournaments, winning a night at league, I think you should have to bowl your best to win.
I've seen too many bowlers who think they should just be able to phone in their average and win.

I don't mind bowling against PBA guys,I try harder and it makes me bowl better and that makes you a better bowler all around.

[kakcpa]

The USBC Detroit Masters was held this weekend. 7 games of qualifying, then cut to 32 for double elimination match play. Over the past 3 years, they've used sport and pbax conditions. This year, they went to a 45' walled up condition. The cut, at 32 was about a 230 average. Top spot averaged 257. This tournament brings out the best of Detroit. Former pros, such as Harry Sullins, Paul Koehler, Kurt Pilon, etc bowl in it. Koehler, his first 3 games put up a 846 with a 299 and 300. In the match play yesterday, someone had a 865, and there were 6 other 800s. In the Chameleon, last year, the cut was about a 195 average, and the high qualifier was about 218 avg. Why they changed to this is beyond me, especially for the most prestegious local tournament there is in my area.

This is their press release...the tournament continues this Sat.

BILL BRUCE LEADS THE WAY IN QUALIFYING IN THE MDUSBC MASTERS

The Metro Detroit USBC Association Masters tournament qualifying and first rounds of match play wrapped up at Sterling Lanes in Sterling Heights Sunday, Jan. 18.

Bill Bruce of Howell was the top qualifier with a seven-game total of 1,801 on games of 279, 280, 235, 279, 258, 243 and 227. Once in match play he fell to the32nd seeded player Michael Gaddy of Sterling Heights 640-582 in the three-game match to fall into the loser’s bracket in the double elimination format. Once in the loser’s bracket he beat Christopher Nielson of Livonia 710-583, Travis Franz of Waterford Township 704-627, Matthew Randall of Allen Park 668-634 before falling to Jeffery Hicks of Allen Park 617-612.

Others still alive in the competition include Paul Koehler of Roseville, Ernest Segura Jr. of Taylor, Terence Haines II of Whitmore Lake and Kurt Pilon of Warren with no losses in the winner’s bracket.

Koehler qualified fourth with 1,763 and won matches against Kevin Trumbull of Romulus 685-674, Jerome Jaracz of Clinton Township 767-679 and Jeffery Hicks of Allen Park 696-658 to advance to next Saturday’s finals.

Segura qualified 10th with 1,698 and beat Chris Kliczinski of Pinckney 747-589, Travis Franz 728-702 and Abed Daher of Brownstown 698-603 to move on.

Haines qualified 25th with 1,637. He defeated Jason Neiman of Warren 750-736, Terence Dockery of Fraser 779-705 and Michael Gaddy 665-591 to remain undefeated.

Pilon qualified 30th with 1,615. In match play he remained undefeated with wins over David Kelley of Shelby Township 804-654,,Matthew Randall 675-671 and William Daniels of St. Clair Shores to remain unbeaten.

Those remaining in the loser’s bracket are Michael Norris Jr. of Livonia, Craig Nidiffer of Trenton, Christopher Sand of St. Clair Shores and Jeffery Hicks.

The 126-player field averaged 216.3, with the top 32 finalists averaging 239.9.

In the qualifying rounds there were six 800 series and four 300 games. The 800 series were recorded by Paul Koehler of Roseville (846), Steve Mrakitsch of Howell (833), Craig Nidiffer of Trenton (816), Abed Daher of Brownstown (810), Jay Lang of Sterling Heights (802) and David Kelley of Shelby Township (801). Perfect 300 games were bowled by Koehler, Jerome Jaracz of Clinton Township, Matthew Randall of Allen Park and Christopher Nielson of Livonia.

In the first rounds of match play William Daniels of St. Clair Shores rolled 864 as the top three game match play set. Other 800 series were bowled by Kurt Pilon of Warren (804), Robert Chamberlain Jr. of Holly (803) and Jaracz (803). Perfect 300 games were bowled by Daniels, Pilon, Chamberlain and Jay Lang.

The final rounds of match play begin at 9 a.m. on Saturday, Jan. 24 at Sterling Lanes.

For a complete listing of entrants visit http://www.mdusbc.com under tournaments and MDUSBC Masters. Match play results are updated on the website after each day of competition. The graph of the lane pattern is also available on the website.

Sterling Lanes is located at 33200 Schoenherr Rd. in Sterling Heights, telephone (586) 979-5200.

Sponsors of the MDUSBC Masters are Turbo 2-N-1 Grips, Red Robin Restaurants of Michigan and Ansara's Big Boy Restaurants.

The MDUSBC Masters Tournament is an USBC certified event operated by the Metro Detroit USBC Association, the largest local association of the United States Bowling Congress with over 70,000 adult and youth members.

[Iceman]

"It's just seems like he took advantage of it" How doe's one take advantage of being in the PBA ?

I agree with onefrombills "Just because someone has a PBA card Does not make them any different than you and me." They pay their USBC dues just like us and bowl in the same leagues as we do. I'm talking about the players on the pro tour, not just PBA card holders that come bowl in these tournaments

I know it will be said they do it for a"living" meaning that they have a lot more experience from going around to different tournaments.

I think your missing my point - I'm not angry with a PBA card member holder, I've ran into a few that should not have had one, but there are many that should. The pro's that bowl on tour are deadly accurate and very good - why should they come into a non-pro tournament and bowl against us? This is not their league and they know it - that is taking advantage in my opinion.

Again, I'm not taking anything away from any pro or even PBA card holder, but just like in IT, there are IT ceritifcation paper holders, and IT Certified engineers. It's a tainted process there too, some are book smart and some couldn't setup a network without a step by step drawing from someone else. I face this everyday with my company - and I don't like the process there either.

On the flip side, I agree, bowling against them does make you better - but we are all entry levels - even with the tainted 230 house average, this is not the same house patterns at every place. I avg 210 at my house, and shot 769 so this was over my average - I rolled the ball well but even that will not get me in the Masters tournament (qualifying in 9 game set - I still have Team event next weekend). They take the top 32, and thus far 2089 is the cut - so 230 average will get you close. On a wall shot, it's all about carry. It doesn't focus on accuracy or spares. I am trying to figure a way or suggestion to make this worth while to allow non-pro's to qualify for the masters and then bowl against the pros. I would love to qualify for a tournament where I bowled great, then match up against the pro's. Trying to qualify competing with the pro's is a little extreme.

It feels like trying to get that first job with no experience - how do you get experience if you can't qualiy to get the experience????