USBC Contact (That will Listen!!!)

[Iceman]

To answer Bowl1820 -

Not restricting any PBA bowler, they should just be in their "elite division" for brackets and honestly, give them a free pass to the masters, just leave the positions for the non-pro's trying to make the masters.

League bowling - I really can't understand why a Pro (touring pro) would go join a local house league for money, unless it was a executive type league, but these are usually not THS.

OVerall, if you toughen the shot up, the pro's will not be cleaning house so easily, they will have to work hard, and we will have to work harder to - this makes it fair. If you put a THS out, a touring Pro walks in licking his lips and forking out $1000 for all brackets. no one has to try, it doesn't focus on bowling skills, it's like I said before a carry slaughterhouse - either you do or your out.

[onefrombills]

If this helps out or not we have a state wide scratch tournament club and you may notice some names and faces that bowl it.....Last months winner like I said in an early post is Brett Wolfe

www.azbowlingclub.com

[Iceman]

If this helps out or not we have a state wide scratch tournament club and you may notice some names and faces that bowl it.....Last months winner like I said in an early post is Brett Wolfe

www.azbowlingclub.com

Is this noticed by the USBC or is this state association only? I think this would be a great ideal to have. Host numerouse tournaments around the state at different houses - like a sweeper, but more defined in tournament like fashion.

Where can I get info on how this is setup or defined per tournament?

[onefrombills]

Is this noticed by the USBC or is this state association only? I think this would be a great ideal to have. Host numerouse tournaments around the state at different houses - like a sweeper, but more defined in tournament like fashion.

Where can I get info on how this is setup or defined per tournament?

Not too sure the question here?

[Iceman]

I mean is the state scratch tournament recognized by the USBC? Our local USBC organization told me they only track tournaments which they approve and have no record of any others. Do they control the shot that is down or hose the tournament I guess would be the question..

[JAnderson]

This should underscore the importance of understanding tournament rules before entering. The same is true of brackets, side pots, or any other wagering around bowling. The local association was simply executing the tournament as set forth in the rules.

I can argue both sides of the argument on this one.

If an association has open membership, all members should be allowed to participate in association events.

Pros should not be competing in what is essentially an amateur competition.

[Iceman]

I was only pointing this out as to referencing how the USBC is not really doing a good job on divisioning the ranks. There are so many different levels of bowlers, I'm sure it is a hard thing to do - it's just doesn't seem right for some of us whom are trying to get experience have to bowl better than our best to even get the experience. It's an oxy moron I know, but something has to give.

There are many bowlers out there, I met one today who told me he looks for tournaments to clean house in brackets. He carries a PBA card, but does not national tour, only regional.

I even asked him if he thought it was fair, he said "hey, I've paid my dues, it's time for me to cash." I don't agree with him on that, but everyone has a different view on fairness.

The USBC directors I have spoken with over the past 2 days have been very helpful and listened well. They do take everyone's thoughts on record and based on the stats of our local city tournament, the director told me, his response was not correct, the last 5 years have shown a 35% increase in participation - so softening the shot this year due to participation (last year) was not correct at all.

[JAnderson]

I was only pointing this out as to referencing how the USBC is not really doing a good job on divisioning the ranks. There are so many different levels of bowlers, I'm sure it is a hard thing to do

Almost impossible as long as there are dishonest people out there.

Consider blatant sandbagging and tournament directors that refuse to re-rate or tournament directors that re-rate too aggressively. There's a local handicap tournament here in Atlanta every 6 months that pays $10,000 cash for first place. The average that is used is the average established in one specific league. All other averages are ignored. The only reason it hasn't yet been victimized by a sandbagger is that it isn't widely known. Yet.

For too long, the measure of ability has generally been considered a bowler's book average. With widely varied lane conditions, that's simply no longer the case. There are league bowlers who genuinely average in the 190-210 range that go to a PBA regional and make it into match play. League bowlers from the same league who average 220+ go to the same PBA event and don't make it into the top half of the field, let alone the cash cut or match play.

League average means nothing.

Holding a PBA card (or not) is not an accurate measurement of ability either. There are PBA members who have never been to a PBA event, even as a spectator. The PBA has been lax in enforcing membership participation rules becaue for the PBA, the yearly membership checks constitute free money for the PBA. There are amateur bowlers who win PBA events.

If you earn a PBA national tour exemption, it indicates that you are in the top echelon of bowlers. That measuring stick can only be applied to a few hundred bowlers in history, however.

When it comes to creating a rating system in an attempt to create equality amongst bowlers competing for cash or prizes, the only way I can see to make equitable divisions is by earnings and even that method has problems. Bowlers who have won in excess of $1,000,000 USD in their lifetime are in a different class of bowler from 99.9999% of the bowling population. Bowlers who win more than $10,000 annually are in a different class than 99.99% of the bowling population.

The problems should be obvious. How do you ensure that bowlers are reporting all winnings? How good do you think Walter Ray Williams is going to be on his 114 birthday? You still catch people in your division as they are "on their way up".

Is there another way to ensure equitable divisions? Probably not. Keep that in mind when you put money on the line.