Novel Concept/Idea: The Bowling ball does not matter??

[MICHAEL]

It's a closed topic at this point. The video has been made…no difference was noted at the given rev rate for the given drillings for the given bowling balls. Experiment concluded. Iceman's dreams or visions or imagination aside…the data IS what the data IS. And no…it wasn't comparing shots that varied monumentally…like I said…maybe 1 board. And I've seen Iceman bowl…his ability to hit the same EXACT board every time…lets just say "questionable".

(never start a sentence with And)... poor English! LOL

I must have some unheard of gift, if I miss my mark as you mention above! I have been on Fire Lately for several weeks,,, even had two, 200 plus games on the wood lanes in Plattsburg Thursday ! It's amazing how much better I bowl, after NOT RIDING MY BIKE !500 miles, and getting up the next day and bowing a tournament! ALL AT FRICKEN 66 years young!!!

I think you made a concerted effort to test your hypothesis on ball drilling! Bless your pee picking heart! But it means Nothing! LOL
The best part was Mike White in the background,,, saying,,, that was left,, that was right of mark! I did enjoy it, and you did put forth
much effort, (for nothing!) LOL

Anyway get your game togerther, and ride you bike out to bowl me on my home turf. Hey If I did it,,, why in the hell can't you!

Make sure you get a LOT OF coaching,,,, your going to need it! ICEMAN IS HOT,,,, my Gift is GROWING!

Quit dating PlayBOY, bunnies! YOUR BETTER THEN THAT!! I know you live close to San Francisco,,,, but Jeff is not good enough for YOU!!

All kidding aside, I have been on Fire the last 3 weeks at several different lanes! Not sure what's going on, but ICE likes the Fire!!

See you June 13th!! Bring you best weapons to do battle!!

P.S. Had a guy that is coaching Pat, give me a bunch of great advise while bowling in that recent tournament! Its paying off in spades, along with my gift.

I will post a video of my theory that like balls with same surfaces will move differently, depending on pin position. ( and balance hole)

[Aslan]

AGAIN!!

Looking at the slow motion videos at the END of the video (Mike must have fallen asleep before the end)….the difference in boards was NOT 5-9 boards…it was ONE board!!

I even wrote it DOWN for everyone. It's actually WRITTEN on the slide just before the video!!

First set of videos!! BOTH BALLS…up the 11-BOARD!! THE ELEVEN BOARD. BOTH BALLS…hit the SAME BOARD!!!

AND WHAT HAPPENED?!!

Hmm…well, I'm no psychologist or othamologist….BUT…it LOOKS like Ball #1 hit the pocket and struck and Ball #2 was "slightly" more aggressive and went just a "little" through the head and left the 4-9? So…okay…I'll agree with Mikey and Mikey…the more aggressive drilling…accounted for that little, tiny difference…where the ball moved just an inch or so left and went through the head. There. Now we're all in agreement. The drilling difference accounted for a slight change.

Now…through my non-optamologist approved eyes…it seems that the less aggressive ball actually went out to the 9 and came back into the pocket where as the more aggressive one only went out to the 10 and came back…thus the less aggressive one covered more boards…but ya know what…why split hairs??

Again…AGAIN…anyone…MWhite…Iceman…ANYONE that wants to conduct their own experiment…maybe at a different rev rate or a different line….feel free to buy two of the same balls, drill them up differently…knock yourselves out!! I'll be excited to watch it!!!

But mocking my delivery or ability to see things…in some vain attempt to prove the data wrong…when the results are clearly there…and slowed down for easy viewing… You want to refute the results…at LEAST refute the final clips…not the warm-up shots at 12:00min. Those are there merely for "context".

[Mike White]

[COLOR="#0000CD"]I must have some unheard of gift, if I miss my mark as you mention above!

Yes you have the "gift" but it comes from the lane man in the form of EASY LANES.

Remember a while back when I referred to Mudpuppy's shot making on his video as "spray can".

Even a "spray can" can shoot 250+ on an easy enough condition.

Try shooting that on a Sport Condition.

Speaking of which, what did I shoot this morning on a Dick Weber pattern? Oh yes, 266.

And I did it the first game before the pattern becomes easier due to use.

[Mike White]

AGAIN!!

Looking at the slow motion videos at the END of the video (Mike must have fallen asleep before the end)….the difference in boards was NOT 5-9 boards…it was ONE board!!

When the video moved to Concourse it appears you has sanded one of the balls.

At that point you aren't comparing one drill pattern vs another.

Different surfaces make a ton of differences.

I've got two Urethane Mix balls drilled different, and I get about 6-8 boards more hook with the ugly blue/orange ball.

It's the ball I was using in Vegas, and at Foothill (in VBT) where I shot 700.

I rarely get to use it on AMF synthetic lanes, but it's works better on Brunswick synthetic lanes.

[MICHAEL]

Yes you have the "gift" but it comes from the lane man in the form of EASY LANES.

Remember a while back when I referred to Mudpuppy's shot making on his video as "spray can".

Even a "spray can" can shoot 250+ on an easy enough condition.

Try shooting that on a Sport Condition.

Speaking of which, what did I shoot this morning on a Dick Weber pattern? Oh yes, 266.

And I did it the first game before the pattern becomes easier due to use.

YES MIKE,,, they don't make-em, like you anymore! Its soooooo easy now days, I sometimes wonder why you don't throw as many perfect games NOW as you did when you were 6 years old on the TOUGH OIL!

I for one am getting tired of hearing HOW tough, and HARD it was then! My uncle threw 300s, in the early 60s on wood, and he was a cripple, with bad eye sight!!
I don't want to hear how tough it was THEN ANYMORE!! We are all getting SICK,,,, literally SICK hearing it
The caption above is: While playing,( Give Me That Old Time Religion),,, Yes MIKE White, we know ,,,, We know,,,, its sooooooo easy now!! LOL
If its so EASY now how many 300 did you have this last year,,, I had Two within 6 months,, What's you USBC NUMBER,,, Bilff..... I want to take a look!! I am the bowlingboards.com house detective!!!

P.S. It's an INSULT to many on here including your half brother Aslan, and hundreds, maybe thousands on this site that have not bowled even ONE 300! EASY,,,, maybe a matter of opinion!

OOO SWEET JESUS, Give me them old time bowling lanes, it was good enough for MIKE!!!

[vdubtx]

Yes you have the "gift" but it comes from the lane man in the form of EASY LANES.

Remember a while back when I referred to Mudpuppy's shot making on his video as "spray can".

Even a "spray can" can shoot 250+ on an easy enough condition.

Try shooting that on a Sport Condition.

Speaking of which, what did I shoot this morning on a Dick Weber pattern? Oh yes, 266.

And I did it the first game before the pattern becomes easier due to use.

Congrats, but come back to brag when you don't post about 98 games on a house shot.

[Mike White]

If its so EASY now how many 300 did you have this last year,,, I had Two within 6 months,, What's you USBC NUMBER,,, Bilff..... I want to take a look!! I am the bowlingboards.com house detective!!!

P.S. It's an INSULT to many on here including your half brother Aslan, and hundreds, maybe thousands on this site that have not bowled even ONE 300! EASY,,,, maybe a matter of opinion!

It's not just me, and it's not just since you started bowling.

Here is an article in the N.Y. Times from 2000.

My USBC # is 1560-11073

Your USBC # is 8599-63324

[Aslan]

When the video moved to Concourse it appears you has sanded one of the balls.

At that point you aren't comparing one drill pattern vs another.

Different surfaces make a ton of differences.

Mike and Mike's awesomeness aside...

Yes boy wonder....the forst two SLOW MOTION videos...were done at Arlington (you were there). They are the exact same shots with the two balls, same surface, drilled differently.

The last two slow motion videos compare the effect of the surface change.

So don't get confused. First set compares drilling only. Last two compare surface.

Now, if you look at the two that compare ONLY drilling...you'll see two balls thrown up the 11-board. The less aggressively drilled ball tends to break at about the 9-board (hard to see when there's very little break) and makes a nice pocket hit for a strike. Now that ball is thrown with a slightly lower rev rate (155-185rpm) but at a slightly slower speed (just over 1mph slower).

The second ball, is ALSO thrown up the 11-board but seems to break at about the 10-board. Very close to the other ball. And it seems that both broke at about the same spot, about 45ft. The second ball was thrown at a higher rev rate (205-210rpm) but that difference is counter-acted by a slightly higher speed (about 1mph faster).

So, looking at the line, the break point, the nearly identical speeds...and only a slight difference in rev rate (that should have been easily counter-acted by the slight speed difference)...it's about as close a comparison as an amateur/below average bowler is going to be able to make.

And even watching the ball through the pins...again, amateur eye...but it seems like the less aggressive ball hit just right and exited between the 8 and 9 pins...a bit closer to the 8...almost perfect for a right hander. And the more aggressive ball exited the pin deck in nearly the same spot...but made that little 1 inch move at the end and went through the head a bit more. Personally, I felt I kinda got robbed on that shot because there's a LOT of pin action around the 4-pin and the 9-pin...but neither get touched. The 2-pin bounces out of the gutter and hits the 7-pin and bounces around back into the chennel. And the 10-pin bounces all around the 9-pin but doesn't hit it. Tough leave (4-9 split) when really it was just that last little bounce inside that kept the headpin from hitting the 2-pn properly...which also would have sent the ball more towards the 9-pin...probably knocking it over.

Now, maybe that last little bounce inside was evidence of the actual difference in drillings?? Maybe at 155-210rpms...THAT is about as much difference as you'll see. And maybe it's also a matter of the actualy drilling layouts. Some have commented that the layouts are much more similar than what they'd expect and more rdical differences would have shown more of a difference.

But remember...if you watched the entire, entertaining, possibly award winning video...there were THREE criteria MWhite had to adhere to:

1) DIFFERENT layouts
2) LEGAL (many players leave this one out because the USBC doesn't really care anymore)
3) They have to ultimately be USEABLE by the below average bowler.

In other words, I'm sure Mike could have drilled them all crazy and we coulda seen the weirdest reactions imaginable...but he'd have failed in #2 and #3 of the instructions. It would be interesting to take the 5 bowlers from the AVI Challenge and actually have their arsenals measured to see if they are in fact LEGAL. Other than Mike, I've NEVER had a ball driller actually WEIGH a ball after drilling. Other than Mike...I've never had a driller use one of those circular rulers to make sure a ball is large/small enough.

When was the last time a bowler had a ball disqualified? When was the last time anyone even checked a ball? I bet...if I put up $100 even money...I could go to any house on their busiest league night and have everyone's bowling balls weighed/measured and I'd find at least ONE...that fails in some way. And I'd guess it'd be a thumbless bowler...big weight hole drilled in a really strong, assymetric core ball....trying to get the biggest hook possible...no care whatsoever whether it's legal or not. As long as it has a USBC number...then the 300 will count.

[Mike White]

Mike and Mike's awesomeness aside...

Yes boy wonder....the forst two SLOW MOTION videos...were done at Arlington (you were there). They are the exact same shots with the two balls, same surface, drilled differently.

The last two slow motion videos compare the effect of the surface change.

So don't get confused. First set compares drilling only. Last two compare surface.

Now, if you look at the two that compare ONLY drilling...you'll see two balls thrown up the 11-board. The less aggressively drilled ball tends to break at about the 9-board (hard to see when there's very little break) and makes a nice pocket hit for a strike. Now that ball is thrown with a slightly lower rev rate (155-185rpm) but at a slightly slower speed (just over 1mph slower).

The second ball, is ALSO thrown up the 11-board but seems to break at about the 10-board. Very close to the other ball. And it seems that both broke at about the same spot, about 45ft. The second ball was thrown at a higher rev rate (205-210rpm) but that difference is counter-acted by a slightly higher speed (about 1mph faster).

So, looking at the line, the break point, the nearly identical speeds...and only a slight difference in rev rate (that should have been easily counter-acted by the slight speed difference)...it's about as close a comparison as an amateur/below average bowler is going to be able to make.

And even watching the ball through the pins...again, amateur eye...but it seems like the less aggressive ball hit just right and exited between the 8 and 9 pins...a bit closer to the 8...almost perfect for a right hander. And the more aggressive ball exited the pin deck in nearly the same spot...but made that little 1 inch move at the end and went through the head a bit more. Personally, I felt I kinda got robbed on that shot because there's a LOT of pin action around the 4-pin and the 9-pin...but neither get touched. The 2-pin bounces out of the gutter and hits the 7-pin and bounces around back into the chennel. And the 10-pin bounces all around the 9-pin but doesn't hit it. Tough leave (4-9 split) when really it was just that last little bounce inside that kept the headpin from hitting the 2-pn properly...which also would have sent the ball more towards the 9-pin...probably knocking it over.

Now, maybe that last little bounce inside was evidence of the actual difference in drillings?? Maybe at 155-210rpms...THAT is about as much difference as you'll see. And maybe it's also a matter of the actualy drilling layouts. Some have commented that the layouts are much more similar than what they'd expect and more rdical differences would have shown more of a difference.

But remember...if you watched the entire, entertaining, possibly award winning video...there were THREE criteria MWhite had to adhere to:

1) DIFFERENT layouts
2) LEGAL (many players leave this one out because the USBC doesn't really care anymore)
3) They have to ultimately be USEABLE by the below average bowler.

In other words, I'm sure Mike could have drilled them all crazy and we coulda seen the weirdest reactions imaginable...but he'd have failed in #2 and #3 of the instructions. It would be interesting to take the 5 bowlers from the AVI Challenge and actually have their arsenals measured to see if they are in fact LEGAL. Other than Mike, I've NEVER had a ball driller actually WEIGH a ball after drilling. Other than Mike...I've never had a driller use one of those circular rulers to make sure a ball is large/small enough.

When was the last time a bowler had a ball disqualified? When was the last time anyone even checked a ball? I bet...if I put up $100 even money...I could go to any house on their busiest league night and have everyone's bowling balls weighed/measured and I'd find at least ONE...that fails in some way. And I'd guess it'd be a thumbless bowler...big weight hole drilled in a really strong, assymetric core ball....trying to get the biggest hook possible...no care whatsoever whether it's legal or not. As long as it has a USBC number...then the 300 will count.

Give me some time indictors so I don't have to sleep through another 30 minutes of watching pin setters do what I see them do all day long.

As for a ball needing a "USBC number", it doesn't have to be the # originally on the ball. If for whatever reason, you remove the #, you are only required to engrave a new number. That number could be as simple as 1.

The form to receive recognition for shooting an honor score asks if your ball has a serial # on it. It doesn't ask what that serial number is.

Since the USBC changed the rules (August 2014) as it applies to thumbless bowlers, I'd say you will probably find a good percent of balls used by thumbless bowling to be illegal.

If there was a thumb hole drilled in the ball, and also a balance hole. By not using the thumb hole, the thumb hole is considered another balance hole, and you're only allowed one balance hole.

[Aslan]

Just proves how easy it would be for me to make $100/night. And not even have to take my clothes off.

Actually the clothes off things would probably earn me maybe $2/night and I'm sure get me arrrested...not really a good business model.

Very SIMPLE...FAST FORWARD TO THE END of the video. Now, the LAST FOUR shots...(hint: the only 4 on the video in slow motion...and the ones with the title slides in between them)...Shot #1 and #2 were in Arlington...at abut the 34 minute mark....then just after that are the Concurse shots. The ones done at Arlington are the comparison shots.

This is all spelled out clearly in the title slides between shots by the way.