great read

[fortheloveofbowling]

If a kid was doing that i would tell them point blank not to. If i am open bowling and i see someone next to me and they are not very good i can guarantee you when i see them label one i always walk over and hold up my hand and say good shot. If i see a family bowling and a kid throws a ball down the lane and hits some pins i will tell them good shot. I take any opportunity to encourage bowling and bowlers. I always talk to people about joining leagues or about trying a tournament. Quite honestly, i could care less if some one respects me or not because i'm a league bowler. My goal as a bowler is to get people to continue to participate. Maybe that family that goes bowling once a week or some guy and his brother you know that open bowls twice a week will join a league sometime because you encouraged them instead of looking at them like a detriment to the sport. Those 2 examples are 6 people that i encouraged and joined leagues last season and continued in the summer and will this fall as well.

[rv driver]

What I'm saying is this: The "real bowlers" -- that is, the ones who are really good and really dedicated and work to improve their games, are usually very courteous and quick to offer help and guidance. With those guys, your sorta in the club, because they know you're doing your best to respect the game. It's the hacks who've joined a league and cary a decent average, but who are resting on their laurels, not improving, who look down their noses at non-league players like they're some kind of disease. Aslan, ya know I love ya, but I simply can't agree with this "league up or die, a-hole!" attitude. Leagues are not the be-all-end-all of bowling. The least the regular league guys can do is encourage rather than shun those who aren't bowling league. That faux superiority, elitist-snob attitude is a real turn-off. Granted, that attitude, at least in my experience, seems to mostly be coming from younger players.

I've bowled league and I've sat out. I haven't noticed a difference in my performance between bowling league and not bowling league. The lanes are oiled the same whether you bowl league or not. I dunno. It just seems to smack of the whole sophomoric frat-boy-elitist crap: "If you're not Greek, you're weak." "If you don't bowl league, you're not a real bowler." Same kind of faux superiority, IMO. that attitude simply does not endear people to the sport.

[rv driver]

If your point is that because someone walks in and shoot a 210 on open bowling conditions once in a while and wants to be treated like he is equal to the top bowlers in the alley. No I don't agree with that.

Why not? Why can't a good bowler with a 220 average who doesn't bowl league be treated as an equal to those who throw a 180 league average? This smacks of playground bullyism.

Those guys compete week in week out in leagues and tournaments deserve a higher spot in the pecking order than the recreational guy that shows up when he feels like and bowls.

Why? Why do they deserve that? Why is there a "pecking order," to begin with?

[Amyers]

I can agree with that RV I don't really have it in my house but some other places I have bowled and some other forums I've been on the people have the attitude that if you don't average 230 your not worth the breath to speak too.

I try to friendly and courteous to everyone and realize even though I'm their practicing to compete they are just there to have fun.

I will say though if you come up to me and tell me in open bowling you've shot 200+ over the last few weeks I'll give you the high five and think to myself then bring it to league and prove it. It's just not the same up there by yourself as it is in a competitive environment.

Not saying that to run ya down I just really feel it is different. You can also only do what life and time restraints allow.

[Aslan]

rv...that question can be asked and answered in every sport imagineable.

- Why do Nascar guys get all the money and fame...I can drive a car really well.
- Why do professional baseball players look down on softball players...I hit a HR every night in my Thursday softball league.
- Why is the tour de france so special, I can ride a bike.
- How come my college intramural flag football team that is undefeated doesn't make it in the college paper sports section...yet they write about the Division II college team with the losing record?

See rv...those that bowl open bowling, and want "league bowler recognition" are like guys that lower the basketball hoops in their driveways to 9ft and then spend all afternoon dunking the ball and claiming they could probably play college B-Ball IF....they weren't too busy....

Bowling is a GREAT sport...because the only thing stopping you from going to league night and showing how good you really are....is YOU! No farm systems...the annual membership is only like $20-$25...all you gotta do is DO IT. And then, respect earned. But no, I'm not gonna go to cosmic bowling and watch some kid throw a 6lb ball like a jackhole and marvel at his greatness when he lucks into a 180 game. I just bowled a team of 3 (of 5) jackwads that threw thumbless and thought they were God's gift....last week in league play....one of them threw 2 straight balls into the gutter. Lets just say...they weren't very happy when our team of 3 beginners and a couple average bowlers took 3 of 4 points from "God's Gift to bowling".

I've already heard all the excuses. I used to play hockey with a kid that thought he was the most talented skater since Wayne Gretzky...but the kid never even played semi-organized hockey. He always had an excuse....money, a car, not interested, can't make it the nights they play, might be starting a new job, etc...blah blah blah. Yet he had time to hang around street corners and waste money on tons of other stuff...and never had a "job" and always had a ride. Some people just never take that step. And thats fine with me. To each their own. But you can't get the accolades if you never put on the uniform.

[Amyers]

Why not? Why can't a good bowler with a 220 average who doesn't bowl league be treated as an equal to those who throw a 180 league average? This smacks of playground bullyism.

Why? Why do they deserve that? Why is there a "pecking order," to begin with?

I'm not talking about actually running you down or treating you poorly I am talking mostly about respect in a envious way. I have more respect or more envious of a guy that bowls tournaments and has won than just a league bowler. Ive never won an individual tournament. Same with someone who averages 210 on sport conditions that's way more impressive than averaging 210 on THS.

I was talking last fall to one of the older kids on my daughters youth league kid has serious talent and I as talking to him about his release because it's different than most tremendous power. He kind of blew me off a bit his dad heard it and I heard him tell the kid I had two youth state championships on my mantle how many did he have. The kid came back over and apologized and talked with me for about an hour and came back to talk generally after every week. It makes a difference when you've got the hardware. I didn't know anyone even knew I was in the picture on the wall.

[Aslan]

I'm not talking about actually running you down or treating you poorly I am talking mostly about respect in a envious way. I have more respect or more envious of a guy that bowls tournaments and has won than just a league bowler. Ive never won an individual tournament. Same with someone who averages 210 on sport conditions that's way more impressive than averaging 210 on THS.

Ya know who I respect? Sometimes I go to the alley and there is a scratch league there...mostly really old men....with their names on the back of their bowling shirts. I respect those guys. They are all getting older....have had numerous surgeries and setbacks...yet not only do they keep playing, but they don't ask for handicap and they wear their names rpoudly on their back. I respect those guys.

And I respect the guys that go to the USBC Open every year. They test their merit against the rest of bowling elite, on challenging conditions, on the biggest stage in bowling.

But who cares what I respect? rvdriver shouldn't give 2 poos what I think. Nobody else does. And if my opinion "bothers" him...pshycologically speaking...it's probably not me at all...it's his OWN doubts. He's searching for validation from others because he has his own doubts.

See, I'm not just a physics/statistics nerd...I minored in Psychology. Which is also a reason why Iceman fascinates me.

I had two youth state championships on my mantle how many did he have.

What a cheater! You're totally too old to compete in youth tournaments!

[Amyers]

Well I have to find someway of getting the competition down to my level. Next year I'm bowling in a bantam league. I should really be able to compete against those kids throwing granny style with a 6 pound ball.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Those that bowl open bowling and want league bowler recognition? What is that all about? So if someone is bowling next to me and they don't have a wrist support and a usbc card they don't get respect if they throw some good shots? I'm thinking i need to go over and introduce myself and tell him about the leagues in my house and the fun we have. Is all this respect stuff about someone thinking they are better than you? I will tell you, that never stops at any level. If you are out open bowling 3 things can happen: 1) just like everyone else has had happen someone comes up to you and says how do get the ball to curve like that? So you give them a few tips and tell them to have fun and maybe join a league sometime. 2) You are bowling bad and shot a 140 or 150 and the dude next to you with the house ball is thinking to himself i can beat that guy! 3) You get hot and string some strikes and shoot 220 and the guy next to thinks to himself that is just because he has a fancy bowling ball and wrist support. If i had that i could beat him! It is best to not worry about gaining respect from someone like that. You are better off at the start of your open bowling opening up a dialog with whoever you are bowling next to and trying to encourage them. The same type of thing happens in league as well. A guy that averages less than you thinks he would be just as good if he had your ball or practiced once a week or whatever. That is why i tell people a house shot average is really meaningless because i know guys that average less than me and would be better than me on a certain sport pattern. I know guys that average more than me that could not hit water if they fell out of a boat on a tough shot.

[rv driver]

I can agree with that RV I don't really have it in my house but some other places I have bowled and some other forums I've been on the people have the attitude that if you don't average 230 your not worth the breath to speak too.

I try to friendly and courteous to everyone and realize even though I'm their practicing to compete they are just there to have fun.

I will say though if you come up to me and tell me in open bowling you've shot 200+ over the last few weeks I'll give you the high five and think to myself then bring it to league and prove it. It's just not the same up there by yourself as it is in a competitive environment.

Not saying that to run ya down I just really feel it is different. You can also only do what life and time restraints allow.

I guess I just never let the competition get into my head. Whether alone or in a league, I was always simply competing against myself, so my performance never changed that much.