great read

[rv driver]

rv...that question can be asked and answered in every sport imagineable.

- Why do Nascar guys get all the money and fame...I can drive a car really well.
- Why do professional baseball players look down on softball players...I hit a HR every night in my Thursday softball league.
- Why is the tour de france so special, I can ride a bike.
- How come my college intramural flag football team that is undefeated doesn't make it in the college paper sports section...yet they write about the Division II college team with the losing record?

See rv...those that bowl open bowling, and want "league bowler recognition" are like guys that lower the basketball hoops in their driveways to 9ft and then spend all afternoon dunking the ball and claiming they could probably play college B-Ball IF....they weren't too busy....

Bowling is a GREAT sport...because the only thing stopping you from going to league night and showing how good you really are....is YOU! No farm systems...the annual membership is only like $20-$25...all you gotta do is DO IT. And then, respect earned. But no, I'm not gonna go to cosmic bowling and watch some kid throw a 6lb ball like a jackhole and marvel at his greatness when he lucks into a 180 game. I just bowled a team of 3 (of 5) jackwads that threw thumbless and thought they were God's gift....last week in league play....one of them threw 2 straight balls into the gutter. Lets just say...they weren't very happy when our team of 3 beginners and a couple average bowlers took 3 of 4 points from "God's Gift to bowling".

I've already heard all the excuses. I used to play hockey with a kid that thought he was the most talented skater since Wayne Gretzky...but the kid never even played semi-organized hockey. He always had an excuse....money, a car, not interested, can't make it the nights they play, might be starting a new job, etc...blah blah blah. Yet he had time to hang around street corners and waste money on tons of other stuff...and never had a "job" and always had a ride. Some people just never take that step. And thats fine with me. To each their own. But you can't get the accolades if you never put on the uniform.

I hear what you're saying; I understand your argument, but it doesn't wash. Here's why:
You're using professional sports as examples: Nascar, Tour de France, pro baseball. But, local bowling leagues are not professional sports. I could see if the PBA guys want to stick their noses in the air, but, by-and-large, they're nicer than the rabid local league players! The local leagues are just as "jackleg" as anyone else. I suppose you might compare local leagues to organized school sports, as opposed to pickup, playground games, but you can't compare leagues to actual, professional sports. Here's the thing I can't get past: Bowling is an individual sport -- like golf or tennis. Why, then, is "joining a team" the litmus test of "how serious" one is???

[rv driver]

I'm not talking about actually running you down or treating you poorly I am talking mostly about respect in a envious way. I have more respect or more envious of a guy that bowls tournaments and has won than just a league bowler. Ive never won an individual tournament. Same with someone who averages 210 on sport conditions that's way more impressive than averaging 210 on THS.

I was talking last fall to one of the older kids on my daughters youth league kid has serious talent and I as talking to him about his release because it's different than most tremendous power. He kind of blew me off a bit his dad heard it and I heard him tell the kid I had two youth state championships on my mantle how many did he have. The kid came back over and apologized and talked with me for about an hour and came back to talk generally after every week. It makes a difference when you've got the hardware. I didn't know anyone even knew I was in the picture on the wall.

That makes some sense, however, most league bowlers who stick their noses in the air don't have the hardware. They just show up week after week, like the rest of us. It just seems like an arbitrary litmus test to me.

[rv driver]

Ya know who I respect? Sometimes I go to the alley and there is a scratch league there...mostly really old men....with their names on the back of their bowling shirts. I respect those guys. They are all getting older....have had numerous surgeries and setbacks...yet not only do they keep playing, but they don't ask for handicap and they wear their names rpoudly on their back. I respect those guys.

And I respect the guys that go to the USBC Open every year. They test their merit against the rest of bowling elite, on challenging conditions, on the biggest stage in bowling.

But who cares what I respect? rvdriver shouldn't give 2 poos what I think. Nobody else does. And if my opinion "bothers" him...pshycologically speaking...it's probably not me at all...it's his OWN doubts. He's searching for validation from others because he has his own doubts.

See, I'm not just a physics/statistics nerd...I minored in Psychology. Which is also a reason why Iceman fascinates me.



What a cheater! You're totally too old to compete in youth tournaments!

Your opinion doesn't "bother me." I'm just scratching my head as to why a local, amateur league should count for so much in one's resume for respect on the lanes? As I say, it seems rather arbitrary to me.

[rv driver]

Well I have to find someway of getting the competition down to my level. Next year I'm bowling in a bantam league. I should really be able to compete against those kids throwing granny style with a 6 pound ball.

Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer was in a Karate class with a bunch of 6th graders.

[rv driver]

Those that bowl open bowling and want league bowler recognition? What is that all about? So if someone is bowling next to me and they don't have a wrist support and a usbc card they don't get respect if they throw some good shots? I'm thinking i need to go over and introduce myself and tell him about the leagues in my house and the fun we have. Is all this respect stuff about someone thinking they are better than you? I will tell you, that never stops at any level. If you are out open bowling 3 things can happen: 1) just like everyone else has had happen someone comes up to you and says how do get the ball to curve like that? So you give them a few tips and tell them to have fun and maybe join a league sometime. 2) You are bowling bad and shot a 140 or 150 and the dude next to you with the house ball is thinking to himself i can beat that guy! 3) You get hot and string some strikes and shoot 220 and the guy next to thinks to himself that is just because he has a fancy bowling ball and wrist support. If i had that i could beat him! It is best to not worry about gaining respect from someone like that. You are better off at the start of your open bowling opening up a dialog with whoever you are bowling next to and trying to encourage them. The same type of thing happens in league as well. A guy that averages less than you thinks he would be just as good if he had your ball or practiced once a week or whatever. That is why i tell people a house shot average is really meaningless because i know guys that average less than me and would be better than me on a certain sport pattern. I know guys that average more than me that could not hit water if they fell out of a boat on a tough shot.

It's not that I want recognition. It's the paradigm I see again and again of elitism that makes people feel unwelcome or second-class. I could care less about recognition. I'm not an attention hound. But I do think that an atmosphere of mutuality would do the sport a whole lotta good.

[Amyers]

That makes some sense, however, most league bowlers who stick their noses in the air don't have the hardware. They just show up week after week, like the rest of us. It just seems like an arbitrary litmus test to me.

You're absolutely right limiting it to just league RV it is arbitrary. Bowl a league, a local tournament, a larger tournament, talk your house into starting a once a month traveling club where you're competing against others on fresh conditions. My big point is you're not experiencing the competitive side of the game. Leaving you the poorer side of it. If there's nothing on the line it's just practice and we all know what Allen Iverson says about practice.

There are ways to experience the competitive aspects of the game without making that once a week commitment that leagues require.

I'm also not saying they have a right to stick their noses up in the air. In my opinion when you're at the top you have even more of a responsibility to be an ambassador for the game.

[rv driver]

You're absolutely right limiting it to just league RV it is arbitrary. Bowl a league, a local tournament, a larger tournament, talk your house into starting a once a month traveling club where you're competing against others on fresh conditions. My big point is you're not experiencing the competitive side of the game. Leaving you the poorer side of it. If there's nothing on the line it's just practice and we all know what Allen Iverson says about practice.

There are ways to experience the competitive aspects of the game without making that once a week commitment that leagues require.

I'm also not saying they have a right to stick their noses up in the air. In my opinion when you're at the top you have even more of a responsibility to be an ambassador for the game.

You speak a lot of truth here. I am the poorer for not experiencing the competition right now. I guess I never really look at bowling a game as "practice," because I'm always competing with myself.

[fortheloveofbowling]

I wasn't really pointing at you with anything about recognition. I'm just glad when people bowl league and open bowling on a regular basis. I really never have thought about anyone out open bowling looking for that recognition. I do try to recognize anyone though open bowling, league, or tournament for a good game.

[rv driver]

I wasn't really pointing at you with anything about recognition. I'm just glad when people bowl league and open bowling on a regular basis. I really never have thought about anyone out open bowling looking for that recognition. I do try to recognize anyone though open bowling, league, or tournament for a good game.

I didn't think you were -- I just wanted to define that point. You know, I wonder if it's that the league bowlers think the non-participants are being stuck up or something, and that's why the leaguers give them the gate?

[Aslan]

Here's the thing I can't get past: Bowling is an individual sport -- like golf or tennis. Why, then, is "joining a team" the litmus test of "how serious" one is???

Because there's "pretend" and there's "for real". League conditions, league competition, the mental aspect...like I said before...I can bowl 9 game of open bowling in 2 hours before getting tired. But in league bowling, even with the rest between shots, I'm exhausted after 3-4 games.

I think we're confusing courtesy with respect. Like FTLOB, I love when people come up to me and ask me for help or questions about bowling. I'd even like to be a youth coach if I could. Thats "courtesy" and being a good ambassador of the sport. But in terms of "respect"...and maybe this differs from center to center...but I see league bowlers and I see everyone else.