great read

[Shaneshu87]

http://www.epicbowling.com/bowling-d...ally-amateurs/

check this article out written by a high-school bowler, it hits on all the hot topics that we have all be discussing (minus religion lol). this kid really hit the nail on the head (like that Hammer reference) as to another aspect of the decline of bowling, its great, its straight to the point, and it should only take you 3 minutes to read it.

[Amyers]

Nice read Shane I'm not sure the terminology of what we call people is really a major problem in the sport but the author is correct that we need to work harder to get the open bowler in leagues the better league bowlers in scratch and sport leagues and remove the amateur label off the guys who make their living off the larger tourneys.

[Aslan]

So I assume this kid would support my proposition that bowlers are put in leagues based on average?

- First year; < 130; no-tap.
- 130 to 174; handicap house league.
- 175 or more; scratch league.
- >190; scratch/sport league.

If your average drops, you move back down. This solves the problems. No more whining about handicap bowlers winning because of "all their handicap" because all the better bowlers are bowling scratch leagues. And in order to "sandbag" to get moved down…a person would have to sandbag an entire season…unlikely.

As to the tournament stuff…thats a tough one. I mean, on the one hand…I would prefer the ball manufacturers put the money into maybe increasing the PBA event payouts. On the other hand, I think it is a good idea to encourage handicap tournaments…which is what a lot of these tournaments are.

I'd actually like to see the USBC run more handicap tournaments…let the ball manufacturers kick in their money up to the PBA events and a little down to the USBC to encourage the handicap tournaments.

[rv driver]

Yeah, not sure the nomenclature is the problem. The problem is sorting out how the companies and sponsors give their monetary support. The article did touch on another problem, although he didn't come right out and name it. The problem is elitism. I've noticed that, besides the obvious PBA demarcation, there's also another "inner circle" to which only those of high sanctioned average and participation in league/tournament play are admitted. Those who either don't enjoy league play, or have time for it, or who don't want to participate in tournaments, are not admitted. I don't know how it is in other centers, but my center displays such an inner circle of privilege. Doesn't seem to matter if one is a very, very good bowler of even stupendous average (say, over 210). If one doesn't participate in the organized sport, one is basically shunned by other sport bowlers and relegated to the chum slick of "recreational bowlers" at the bottom of the bowling food chain.

My problem is, I don't have a lot of time at this point in my professional life, to commit to a weekly league for a number of weeks. I bowl when I can. And I don't like being treated like a bottom feeder, just because I only bowl "recreationally." I'm sure there are others who feel the same: Love the game, bowl relatively well, but aren't in a league, yet still want to be treated "like a bowler." It doesn't create an atmosphere of welcome or goodwill that fosters greater participation in the sport.

[Aslan]

Y The problem is elitism. I've noticed that, besides the obvious PBA demarcation, there's also another "inner circle" to which only those of high sanctioned average and participation in league/tournament play are admitted. Those who either don't enjoy league play, or have time for it, or who don't want to participate in tournaments, are not admitted. I don't know how it is in other centers, but my center displays such an inner circle of privilege....My problem is, I don't have a lot of time at this point in my professional life, to commit to a weekly league for a number of weeks. I bowl when I can. And I don't like being treated like a bottom feeder, just because I only bowl "recreationally." I'm sure there are others who feel the same: Love the game, bowl relatively well, but aren't in a league, yet still want to be treated "like a bowler." It doesn't create an atmosphere of welcome or goodwill that fosters greater participation in the sport.

I have that bias.

Quite simply, my bias comes from the fact that casual bowlers and no-tap bowlers and non-sanctioned bowlers all want the "accolades" of being "awesome"...but they refuse (for whatever reason) to prove that awesomeness on a level playing field.

It's like any other sport...if you want the recognition, you have to step up and play in an organized setting with consistent rules. If you don't care about that respect, then do whatever.

And I don't buy the arguement about commitment or funds or anything like that because I've heard excuse after excuse after excuse...from ALL walks of life...as to why a person bowls non-sanctioned or doesn't join a league or won't play on a sport pattern or won't enter a tournament. I'm not saying some of these excuses aren't valid...I don''t have the funds to bowl in 2 sweeper leagues even though I'd love to...but when you hear enough excuses...you start to lump them all together.

If you're not bowling in a league, you're bowling casually, for fun, on non-sanctioned conditions...with/without sanctioned equipment...according to your own rules. No respect.
If you are bowling in a non-sanctioned league...you are bowling according to whatever rules the people want and are willing to follow.
If you are bowling no-tap...thats not really bowling...it's like "lawn bowling" or some other bowling "related" activity.
If you are a house bowler with a > 190 average and refuse to bowl in a scratch or sport league and/or refuse to test your merit at a sanctioned tournament...you're afraid and your ego can't risk the hit.

If you disagree...thats fine...but realize...if it's not a sancitoned league on sanctioned conditions with sanctioned equipment in a league/tournament environment...it's not a 1 to 1 comparison with what true "sport" bowlers are doing. Your 210 average may not = a 210 average in sanctioned conditions. Just like all the "gifted" house bowlers with 220 averages that claim to be semi-pros....thats on a house shot...that does not = PBA level conditions. So guess what? You don't get PBA level respect.

You want the respect, go out and get it. Unless you're dirt poor or a surgeon...money and/or time is just a convenient excuse.

All that is "in my opinion"...which I imagine is the dissenting one.

[Shaneshu87]

I have that bias.

Quite simply, my bias comes from the fact that casual bowlers and no-tap bowlers and non-sanctioned bowlers all want the "accolades" of being "awesome"...but they refuse (for whatever reason) to prove that awesomeness on a level playing field.

It's like any other sport...if you want the recognition, you have to step up and play in an organized setting with consistent rules. If you don't care about that respect, then do whatever.

And I don't buy the arguement about commitment or funds or anything like that because I've heard excuse after excuse after excuse...from ALL walks of life...as to why a person bowls non-sanctioned or doesn't join a league or won't play on a sport pattern or won't enter a tournament. I'm not saying some of these excuses aren't valid...I don''t have the funds to bowl in 2 sweeper leagues even though I'd love to...but when you hear enough excuses...you start to lump them all together.

If you're not bowling in a league, you're bowling casually, for fun, on non-sanctioned conditions...with/without sanctioned equipment...according to your own rules. No respect.
If you are bowling in a non-sanctioned league...you are bowling according to whatever rules the people want and are willing to follow.
If you are bowling no-tap...thats not really bowling...it's like "lawn bowling" or some other bowling "related" activity.
If you are a house bowler with a > 190 average and refuse to bowl in a scratch or sport league and/or refuse to test your merit at a sanctioned tournament...you're afraid and your ego can't risk the hit.

If you disagree...thats fine...but realize...if it's not a sancitoned league on sanctioned conditions with sanctioned equipment in a league/tournament environment...it's not a 1 to 1 comparison with what true "sport" bowlers are doing. Your 210 average may not = a 210 average in sanctioned conditions. Just like all the "gifted" house bowlers with 220 averages that claim to be semi-pros....thats on a house shot...that does not = PBA level conditions. So guess what? You don't get PBA level respect.

You want the respect, go out and get it. Unless you're dirt poor or a surgeon...money and/or time is just a convenient excuse.

All that is "in my opinion"...which I imagine is the dissenting one.

nailed it

[Amyers]

Yeah, not sure the nomenclature is the problem. The problem is sorting out how the companies and sponsors give their monetary support. The article did touch on another problem, although he didn't come right out and name it. The problem is elitism. I've noticed that, besides the obvious PBA demarcation, there's also another "inner circle" to which only those of high sanctioned average and participation in league/tournament play are admitted. Those who either don't enjoy league play, or have time for it, or who don't want to participate in tournaments, are not admitted. I don't know how it is in other centers, but my center displays such an inner circle of privilege. Doesn't seem to matter if one is a very, very good bowler of even stupendous average (say, over 210). If one doesn't participate in the organized sport, one is basically shunned by other sport bowlers and relegated to the chum slick of "recreational bowlers" at the bottom of the bowling food chain.

My problem is, I don't have a lot of time at this point in my professional life, to commit to a weekly league for a number of weeks. I bowl when I can. And I don't like being treated like a bottom feeder, just because I only bowl "recreationally." I'm sure there are others who feel the same: Love the game, bowl relatively well, but aren't in a league, yet still want to be treated "like a bowler." It doesn't create an atmosphere of welcome or goodwill that fosters greater participation in the sport.

If your point is that because someone walks in and shoot a 210 on open bowling conditions once in a while and wants to be treated like he is equal to the top bowlers in the alley. No I don't agree with that. Those guys compete week in week out in leagues and tournaments deserve a higher spot in the pecking order than the recreational guy that shows up when he feels like and bowls. I'm not saying it is okay to make fun, poke holes in his game, or disrespect him but is he ever going to be on the same level as a consistent league/tourney bowler no.

[fortheloveofbowling]

RV's point about elitism is a great point and 1 that i think is a great unsaid reason for league and tournament decline. He is right about the elite bowlers, they are a huge click sometimes and not real encouraging to newer lesser bowlers. Bias? I will tell you about bias and elite bowlers and some elite competitions: You show up at some events and bowl bad and you would think you have fallen down and your a** is hanging out! In regards to open bowlers, 9 pin no tap, unsanctioned leagues, or whatever you have to remember those people are helping keep the bowling center open. I respect anyone that wants to go out and throw a bowling ball, if they don't want to bowl more seriously that is fine because they don't want that ridicule.

[Aslan]

you have to remember those people are helping keep the bowling center open.

I would tend to agree...but realize a case "can" be made that many of the things we currently see in bowling that are "keeping centers open" are actually killing the sport.

Non-sanctioned leagues are a good example. They syphon money from the USBC, and make a center "appear" to have a lot of dedicated league bowlers when in fact that isn't the case. And one could make the point that the proliferation of cosmic bowling and night club/alleys and easier conditions, and more 300s, and stronger equipment have all hurt the game FAR more than they've helped it.

I don't "ridicule" anybody. I want to sometimes...like the teenager yesterday that was walking down the lane and rolling around on it...or the girl next to me that kept throwing the ball backwards between her legs....because they are idiots...but I didn't.

Just ask yourself...next time you see those idiots having fun and "keeping the doors open"...are THEY the future of bowling??

A good comparison for rvdriver is this:
Sometimes you talk to someone that plays a lot of "Call of Duty" or other strategy/first person shooter games and they brag about how good they are. Imagine one of those guys, sitting at a VFW post, bragging that he'd make a really great soldier because in Call of Duty he has one of the better Kill/Death ratios.

It would not only get you a smirk or a dirty look or a chuckle...it'd be borderline disrespectful. Because there is NO comparison between a video game and the real thing. Having played paintball in big war games...and played a lot of "Black Ops" (video game)....there is NO comparison to the feeling you get when you're pinned down and projectiles are whizzing by your head, hitting brush and trees and the soil at your feet...smoke, sweat, blood...humidity...people yelling...and all I did was PAINTBALL. Those weren't BULLETS....or mortar shells. If I got hit, yeah, it hurt like ****! Sometimes it'd even break the skin...but I didn't DIE!...or lose a limb!!

I know thats an extreme example compared to sanctioned vs. casual bowling...but I think it best illustrates that respect is earned when you step up and beat those league bowlers. Until then, they own you nothing except common courtesy.

[Amyers]

Common courtesy should always be displayed and during open bowling I don't even really mind when they jump up in front of me as I'm releasing the ball it's just good practice for keeping your concentration when someone does something stupid during leagues. I guess I'm not sure exactly what RV is talking about here. If it's elite bowlers being rude that's not right but also you shouldn't be expected to be admitted to the club until you've earned your stripes in real competition.