LION vs ICEMAN

[Amyers]

So what new ball did you add Ice? Beautiful pick of your granddaughter.

[Aslan]

It's been a while since I've been on the site, and even longer since I saw Aslan bowl, but holy cow! The approach is looking MUCH better dude! All you need to do now is get that release cleaned up a bit and stay behind the ball more. But it already looks SO MUCH better.

I can't believe it.....Aslan with a nice smooth approach....using a spare ball......he's starting to look like an actual bowler!

On the other side of that arguement...there might be something to the whole "gift" concept. I mean, I'm not a silver level coach or anything...but of the very basic stuff I learned to become a youth level coach...watching Iceman bowl...I can't imagine how the hell(o) he scores 120 much less 300 games!!! That approach and stance and release and etc... is NOT textbook. Yet somehow...through giftedness or magic or a deal with the devil...the pins just fell down.

Of matter of fact...when Rob tried to give him just some BASIC instruction in terms of the very, very basic foot placement and initial steps...Iceman fell down on the approach and nearly broke his knee!! I'm NOT KIDDING!!! Rob tried to interject "skill" into the gifted bowler and it nearly KILLED him!!

Do you realize that the morning AFTER the epic battle...with the cameras OFF...and Iceman weakened by Rob trying to teach him basic technique...I averaged 206 and beat Iceman in BOTH games we played!!! I rolled a clean 234 for chrissake!! Of course...we conveniently didn't get THAT on camera!!

I'm hoping my skils improve more. And maybe at some point I can contract the "gift" like Ebola or something. Team USA trials are in January!! I WANT a spot on the team dammit!!! I WANT to go to the Pan AM games in Toronto...since they're in Toronto and not some horribly backwards latin America location.

But...thats admittingly a tall order at this point. May have to sit this one out and let Chris Barnes have the spot. I'm not quite "ChrisBarnesworthy" just YET...but watch your back Barnes!! In 10 years...after Walter Ray finally retires (and I get his Brunswick sponsorship)...YOU AND ME will be battling in the PBA50 and the Seniors Masters. You can't duck me forever!!!

[fortheloveofbowling]

Aslan, Your game does look like it as progressed quite a bit since some of your previous videos. Keep working out there and good luck with your goals.

[RobLV1]

Aslan: I need to address a few things here.

1. Iceman's basic skills are well within the acceptable range. He only got tripped up slightly when I messed with his footwork which you should certainly be able to understand. Remember when we first addressed your over-done crossover step?

2. Each bowler's "gift" is personal to him. Earlier Iceman referred to my having the give. Actually, my "gift" is my knowledge. Iceman's is his physical ability. Knowing your propensity for over-thinking (as I do), I think that knowledge may ultimately prove to be your gift as well.

3. You can't compare our bowling on Thursday to the "tournament" on Wednesday. Much easier lanes on Thursday with no competition.

4. Your skills have improved a lot so I'm sure that Chris Barnes is sighing with relief knowing that his Team USA spot is safe for another year.

[MICHAEL]

On the other side of that arguement...there might be something to the whole "gift" concept. I mean, I'm not a silver level coach or anything...but of the very basic stuff I learned to become a youth level coach...watching Iceman bowl...I can't imagine how the hell(o) he scores 120 much less 300 games!!! That approach and stance and release and etc... is NOT textbook. Yet somehow...through giftedness or magic or a deal with the devil...the pins just fell down.

Of matter of fact...when Rob tried to give him just some BASIC instruction in terms of the very, very basic foot placement and initial steps...Iceman fell down on the approach and nearly broke his knee!! I'm NOT KIDDING!!! Rob tried to interject "skill" into the gifted bowler and it nearly KILLED him!!

Do you realize that the morning AFTER the epic battle...with the cameras OFF...and Iceman weakened by Rob trying to teach him basic technique...I averaged 206 and beat Iceman in BOTH games we played!!! I rolled a clean 234 for chrissake!! Of course...we conveniently didn't get THAT on camera!!

I'm hoping my skils improve more. And maybe at some point I can contract the "gift" like Ebola or something. Team USA trials are in January!! I WANT a spot on the team dammit!!! I WANT to go to the Pan AM games in Toronto...since they're in Toronto and not some horribly backwards latin America location.

But...thats admittingly a tall order at this point. May have to sit this one out and let Chris Barnes have the spot. I'm not quite "ChrisBarnesworthy" just YET...but watch your back Barnes!! In 10 years...after Walter Ray finally retires (and I get his Brunswick sponsorship)...YOU AND ME will be battling in the PBA50 and the Seniors Masters. You can't duck me forever!!!

OK,,, I am really UPSET NOW!!

Set up the next tournament! I will DESTROY YOU ONCE AGAIN,,, it won't even be close!!!!!!!!!!!! GRRRRRR,,, I wish I lived closer,,,, it would happen LIKE NOW!!!

You Can't EVEN think you beat Iceman the day I was trying out stuff Rob was wanting me to do!

That was my first Coaching lesson.... He gave me several things to think about during my approach,,,,, GRRRRRRRRRRRRR,,,, !!!!!!

Today with Pat Henderson, ( Hall of Famer).... we won all four games again,,,, and now are only 2 games out of first, I had a 202, 234, and 214!

What did you have Coached, gift- less kitty cat.... I was much to kind to you giving you the avatar you did not deserve.

SAM"S TOWN next MEETING,,,, I am not riding my bike this time,,, I will, as mentioned earlier, make the trip with my 5th wheel... with all my weapons!

Talk the talk kitty cat... YOUR NOT a LION yet, and may never be one!! Why???? Because YOU DON"T HAVE THE GIFT! Your born with it!

Prove me wrong if you can,,,, kitty cat,,,, purrrrr,,,, purrrrr,,,, meow!!!!!!

Wow,,, I wish YOU lived closer to MISSOURI!!!!!!

When do we meet again,,, I have camped at Sam's Town RV Park.....

This time when I beat you it will be over 200 pins,,,,not just one hundred and fifty something!!!

Spring???

Summer???

or Fall Sept 24,,, Icemans next birthday!!!

ICEMAN getting fired UP!!!!

[MICHAEL]

will be in my home away from home!! RESTED, and with my full arsenal.... hey mudpuppy only had ONE ball, and still kicked some ASK!!!!
Not sure what your puny average will be by next meeting, but I will even give you mr 40 year old, handicap what ever that is, and will still
BEAT YOU AT 67 years old,,,, with nothing but my gift, and ONE lesson from Rob! LOL,,,, LOL.... OOOOOO I can't wait,,,,, this meeting may have to be sooner,,, after the winter weather,,,, I will be traveling across the mountains with my RV,,,,, earliest would be spring!!!!!

When I fell at that coaching lesson that Rob gave, he said you laughed behind my back!!! ((( Laugh out loud at an old guy falling to the floor)))
YOUR evil!!!

YOUR not a NICE GUY to me anymore... your the focus of my RAGE!!!! I will teach you a lesson ONCE again, soon!

I guess like that James Bond movie, "Once was not Enough"

This time you will be doing battle with my wife first,,, if you can beat her, then I will give you another chance!!!! But why waste my time, if you can't beat her first! Her average is about the same as yours!!!

wife: Hey honey,,, Ice: Yes sweet heart? wife: I can beat that wimp with his shiny shirt, let me at him first! ice: fine with me honey!

[Blacksox1]

Watching the video of the tournament with the youtube application through the television. Aslan has improved in his approach to the foul line quite a bit. Not sure what Aslan was thinking when he ragged on Iceman's 300 games, two by the way, and also wrote this; Of matter of fact...when Rob tried to give him just some BASIC instruction in terms of the very, very basic foot placement and initial steps...Iceman fell down on the approach and nearly broke his knee!! I'm NOT KIDDING!!! Rob tried to interject "skill" into the gifted bowler and it nearly KILLED him!! Is this the same gentleman that bought Iceman a birthday cake? Anyhow, back to the video. Suncoast lanes plays some of the worst music on earth. The guy working the desk is a piece of work for putting the tournament on lanes 1-2. Then in the middle of the matches forcing them to move to the last 2 lanes in the house. Rob looked very accurate throughout many games-7- and made some good adjustments. Leading him to victory. Mudpuppy throws a strong first shot, often striking or leaving a stone 9 or ringing 7 pin. Mud was also wearing a camera on his chest while bowling, can not wait to see his video too. Being a part of the sewing circle, I enjoyed the live tweets, as did a few others. I go to Vegas a few times a year. If future dates match up, I will give the tournament a shot.

[Aslan]

Aslan: I need to address a few things here.

Using the term "need" loosely; but okay.

1. Iceman's basic skills are well within the acceptable range.

Okay. Lets just leave it there. I agree that Iceman is probably the most "acceptable" bowler I've ever witnessed.

Remember when we first addressed your over-done crossover step?

No. I've blocked that from my memory.

Actually, my "gift" is my knowledge. Iceman's is his physical ability.

Can I interpret that to mean your weakness is physical ability and Iceman's weakness is his lack of knowledge?? I agree, next…

Knowing your propensity for over-thinking (as I do), I think that knowledge may ultimately prove to be your gift as well.

I like to think of my "gift" as the "gift of love" in terms of the ladies. Or my "gift of song". Or my gift of just general awesomeness and having a magnetic personality. I don't know if you were here for this or not Rob…but my "personality gift" allowed me to stay on this website. Only 6 of roughly 12-13 people thought I was evil and should be permanently banned from posting on this very website. Looking at that as the glass is "half full"; that means approximately 50-55% of people on this website (using some extrapolation) thing I'm absolutely crucial to their enjoyment of this website.

In terms of bowling…I have the GIFT of being able to routinely throw a 150-168 game without much effort. I have the "gift" of picking up at least 1 out of every 3 to 4 single pin spare leaves. I have the "gift" of being able to hit a target board +/- 3-9 boards.

3. You can't compare our bowling on Thursday to the "tournament" on Wednesday. Much easier lanes on Thursday with no competition.

I CAN and will. The truth is, I intentionally threw the main event tournament because I felt bad for everyone else. I didn't want to crush them and possibly cause them to quit bowling. I love the sport…what can I say? And what kind of cruel person defeats a guy on his 66th birthday?? Not me. I let Rob do that.

But yes, the following day…I had to put a bit of a smack down on you two…so not to let you get too big of heads. To bring you each down to Earth…so you don't lose the DESIRE to improve.

4. Your skills have improved a lot so I'm sure that Chris Barnes is sighing with relief knowing that his Team USA spot is safe for another year.

Do not mock greatness. Many years ago, there was a boy. And he was weird and had giant ears. Kids teased him and threw rocks at his head. He was beaten mercilessly on a daily basis. Until one day, he picked up a very round rock and rolled it…and it was a perfect shot that cause the ball to roll up a downspout, over tree branch, and drop onto the head of the lead bully. From that day forward, everyone knew his name and respected his greatness. That is the story of how Norm Duke came to be a great bowler. True story. Sort of. Actually not 100%…or probably even 40%…but it's in print, not he internet, so now everyone that google's "Norm Duke" will probably link to here and read it and it'll end up on his Wiki page.

Now that I've met Iceman…I'm not as impressed with my ability to rile him up with such little effort…because I know that his "outrage" is more done in jest than out of actual anger. But it's still a "little" fun!

[Aslan]

How bout this little added tidbit to this EPIC thread....

Obviuosly, many viewers and followers at home are probably looking at the amazing display of skill that was exhibited...and they probably are wondering to themselves (as I am); "How can I bowl like these guys?"

So as part of this "Post Challenge Banter/Discussion", I thought our victors/champion(s) could give some insight into their "game" and give us beginners/novice folks some pointers...from the perspective of everday bowlers that just happen to be truly exceptional. It ALSO would be interesting to see how similar the better performers are in thier approach to the game/shot and also how DIFFERENT these approaches may be.

Now, me...I'm gonna give my insight MERELY as a template so that the champions have a framework to use to list their stuff. Obviously I'm more interested in THEIR approaches/techniques since my game could certainly benefit from what the others have to say (where as their games could only be irrepairably harmed by adopting anything I might mention).

So, just as a template to use, I've broken it up like this:

Pre-Shot:
Starting Stance:
Approach:
Target:
Release:
Post-Release:

For example; here is my list (of probably how NOT to win the AVI Challenge):

Pre-Shot: Nothing. Just the pre-shot ritual of wiping my ball down with a towel and then putting my thumb in and out of the ball to see if the fit is too snug or not snug enough. If it feels a little loose I may blow into the thumbhole. Then putting my left toe wherever I've determined I need to start.

Starting Stance: This is in the process of changing, but for the tournament I focused on a slight bend at the waist and then getting myself lower...maybe even lower than feels "comfortable". Didn't concentrate much on where I was holding the ball or supporting the weight (although I probably should have since my ball has a tendency to drift left in my stance and that messes up the swing plane).

Approach: The approach is where I do most of my 'thinking'...probably too much. And again, this has changed since. But, for the tournament, I was focusing on timing. I would say to myself during the approach, "Push, back, back, swing"...each corresponding with a step of the approach. That way I remember to push the ball out with the first step and I remember to start my downswing and eliminate getting to the foul line too early with the ball still very far back in my backswing. I also am thinking about how I want to finish...for this tournament "sweeping" the trail leg versus "kicking it" sideways. And I was reminding myself to keep that sweep foot down on it's side so I could combat my tendency/bad habit of raising up at the foul line. And also I was reminding myself to stay focused on that target...not to take my eyes off of it. If I can stay focused on that target I can usually hit it and good things happen. If I get distracted with all the other stuff and forget to focus on the target...much less likely to hit it.

Target: I usually play middle or outside. For me middle is going to be targeting the 10-12 boards...my "second arrow shot" if you will. If it's the "outside" shot then it's usually a shot up the 7-8 boards. I think for the AVI I was playing an outside line with the more aggressive Encounter, probably in around the 9-10 boards. Normally my outside line is further out, but the more aggressive Encounter is the one exception since it moves too early if it starts out that far outside. I also will have a -1, -2, -3 system where I will target how far OUT I am targeting. This allows me to make slight adjustments for weak hits without necessarily moving right a board. So "R1, -2" will be one board right of my starting spot and 2 marks closer to the foul line. The marks aren't exact but generally -1 is just shy of the arrows, -2 is sort of midway between the dots and arrows, and -3 is just past the dots. I do have an "inside" line but rarely use it since my rev rate doesn't allow the ball to get back into the pocket. I only attempt it if it looks like the lane conditions are dry.

Release: The release happens so fast that I don't really have time to think about it...but for the AVI I was "trying" to focus on getting my thumb out clean without "grasping" or "pinching" the ball.

Post-Release: I try to post. But mainly I'm focused on the leave more so than the ball path after hitting the pocket. As I get more advanced, I'd like to do better at watching the ball go through the pins and exit the pin deck. But post release I am usually so disgusted with not knocking them all down that I forget to pay attention to the path the ball took through the pin deck.

[MICHAEL]

How bout this little added tidbit to this EPIC thread....

Obviuosly, many viewers and followers at home are probably looking at the amazing display of skill that was exhibited...and they probably are wondering to themselves (as I am); "How can I bowl like these guys?"

So as part of this "Post Challenge Banter/Discussion", I thought our victors/champion(s) could give some insight into their "game" and give us beginners/novice folks some pointers...from the perspective of everday bowlers that just happen to be truly exceptional. It ALSO would be interesting to see how similar the better performers are in thier approach to the game/shot and also how DIFFERENT these approaches may be.

Now, me...I'm gonna give my insight MERELY as a template so that the champions have a framework to use to list their stuff. Obviously I'm more interested in THEIR approaches/techniques since my game could certainly benefit from what the others have to say (where as their games could only be irrepairably harmed by adopting anything I might mention).

So, just as a template to use, I've broken it up like this:

Pre-Shot:
Starting Stance:
Approach:
Target:
Release:
Post-Release:

For example; here is my list (of probably how NOT to win the AVI Challenge):

Pre-Shot: Nothing. Just the pre-shot ritual of wiping my ball down with a towel and then putting my thumb in and out of the ball to see if the fit is too snug or not snug enough. If it feels a little loose I may blow into the thumbhole. Then putting my left toe wherever I've determined I need to start.

Starting Stance: This is in the process of changing, but for the tournament I focused on a slight bend at the waist and then getting myself lower...maybe even lower than feels "comfortable". Didn't concentrate much on where I was holding the ball or supporting the weight (although I probably should have since my ball has a tendency to drift left in my stance and that messes up the swing plane).

Approach: The approach is where I do most of my 'thinking'...probably too much. And again, this has changed since. But, for the tournament, I was focusing on timing. I would say to myself during the approach, "Push, back, back, swing"...each corresponding with a step of the approach. That way I remember to push the ball out with the first step and I remember to start my downswing and eliminate getting to the foul line too early with the ball still very far back in my backswing. I also am thinking about how I want to finish...for this tournament "sweeping" the trail leg versus "kicking it" sideways. And I was reminding myself to keep that sweep foot down on it's side so I could combat my tendency/bad habit of raising up at the foul line. And also I was reminding myself to stay focused on that target...not to take my eyes off of it. If I can stay focused on that target I can usually hit it and good things happen. If I get distracted with all the other stuff and forget to focus on the target...much less likely to hit it.

Target: I usually play middle or outside. For me middle is going to be targeting the 10-12 boards...my "second arrow shot" if you will. If it's the "outside" shot then it's usually a shot up the 7-8 boards. I think for the AVI I was playing an outside line with the more aggressive Encounter, probably in around the 9-10 boards. Normally my outside line is further out, but the more aggressive Encounter is the one exception since it moves too early if it starts out that far outside. I also will have a -1, -2, -3 system where I will target how far OUT I am targeting. This allows me to make slight adjustments for weak hits without necessarily moving right a board. So "R1, -2" will be one board right of my starting spot and 2 marks closer to the foul line. The marks aren't exact but generally -1 is just shy of the arrows, -2 is sort of midway between the dots and arrows, and -3 is just past the dots. I do have an "inside" line but rarely use it since my rev rate doesn't allow the ball to get back into the pocket. I only attempt it if it looks like the lane conditions are dry.

Release: The release happens so fast that I don't really have time to think about it...but for the AVI I was "trying" to focus on getting my thumb out clean without "grasping" or "pinching" the ball.

Post-Release: I try to post. But mainly I'm focused on the leave more so than the ball path after hitting the pocket. As I get more advanced, I'd like to do better at watching the ball go through the pins and exit the pin deck. But post release I am usually so disgusted with not knocking them all down that I forget to pay attention to the path the ball took through the pin deck.

I pretty much put EVERYTHING OUT OF MY MIND, and JUST let the GIFT TAKE OVER!!!

Simple

And it worked

I beat the well coached Lion Man!!

Who is the King of the lanes!!

ICEMAN