Inside Lines VS Outside Lines

[Aslan]

I knew this was going to trigger an Aslan post I'm surprised it wasn't two pages.

Realize it's 20% out of annoyance with the "inside line" that everyone claims is "the cure" yet nobdy ever mentions the drawbacks to that line (more likely to go through the head, washouts, ...) and 80% out of frustration with my present game (lack there of actually).

Actually I like your detailed info and that you back up what your saying.

The bottom line is, bowling is a simple game that is highly dependent on physics. From the time you pick up your bowling ball from the ball return...you could give physics lectures on about 12 different topics as you approach, release, the ball travels, and finally makes contact with the pins. To me, it is what is so frustrating yet at the same time fascinating about the sport. Bowling is about the only sport that you can do as a blind person...maybe swimming. It requires little physical prowess. And it's one of the few games that on a given day, you could actually beat a pro (although highly unlikely).

And I give such detailed information, and make a case for it, and disagree at times...because bowling is a game where people read this stuff...and then skip on over to their bowling center and try to do what they read. And they get frustrated because "3 people said I should play the inside line and that my ball would do the work and I don't need any hand, etc.." and they'll get frustrated. It's NOT that the advice was bad. It's just that different bowlers have different styles, limitations, and equipment...and bowl on different conditions. So sometimes it helps to get a counter-arguement or different prospective so that they can stop and go, "hmm...I'll have to think about that before I do it."

I'm still working on it myself. Had a bad game my first game in leagues last night. I still close up sometimes or screw the release up but I'm finding myself more and more comfortable moving left. I don't think I'll ever be out there with O'Neil either not sure I want to be. It is liberating the extra miss room you have out there compared to the outside lines.

I wouldn't count on that miss room.
1) When you play inside...IF you miss...it's likely a washout or a split. You might get lucky and it's just a weak hit...but be careful.
2) That miss room changes GREATLY condition to condition!

When I used to roll on wood....I LOVED IT!! I could miss 6 boards to the right!!! SIX BOARDS!!! Do you think that "helped" or "hurt" my game? It hurt it. Because whether it was other local centers or Vegas...I suddenly was throwing the ball all over the place! Prior to switching from wood to synthetic...I think our league had 7 bowlers with averages over 200. As of last week we had 2. A LOT of people miss that 6-board cushion they used to get...just sayin.

Everybody wants to take short cuts. They want to bowl 2-handed, or thumbless, or buy a better ball. But the BOTTOM LINE is...the difference between YOU and a PBA PRO...is TWO THINGS:
1) 10,000 hours of practice
2) They have a shot variation of 1.5 inches and your shot varies by several inches or more.

Thats it. Close those 2 gaps...we'll be watching you on TV. Ignore those 2 gaps and focus on any of the other 12,000 different bowling distractions...you get to see your name at the top of the league scoresheet a few times a season.

Sorry...saw an empty soapbox and had to get up on it.

[RobLV1]

Maybe. But based on my recent ball study, there is little difference ball to ball (Shh...the bowling ball companies don't want that to get out)

???
So, are you saying that I can start with a less aggressive ball further out because it's drier and will hook more...but the finish/angle isn't going to be as strong?? Those two statements (above) seem to contradict each other. Might be a typo.


I used to worry about that...but even in a 5-man team (x2) there are like 8 RH bowlers...and the line doesn't seem to dry up until game 3, midway or near the end. I mean, yeah...if you're talking tournaments or something like that...but on house conditions with 3/5 of the bowlers unable to even hit their mark in the first place...I haven't noticed it much.

But yes, early on in my experimentation...playing the outside line...I was worried that by the time I got to boards 9-13...they'd be dried up and I'd start getting even more hook. I even designed a "system" to help with this which made me ball down when I got to that track and move further inside and ball up if that wasn't working. But I've abandoned that system for my new one.



IF there is ANYTHING to arsenals...which 1 year ago I would have said was complete nonsense...and am now sort of "wavering" on post-ball study....THEN, you MUST give yourself room to ball up or down. If you start inside with your most aggressive ball...and you're not getting the reaction you want...you have room to move outside and adapt...but it may not give you the best angle. But the real problem is what if it hooks too much...there's only so far you can move left...then you're really in trouble. IF (and I'm not 100% sold on this yet) arsenals are an important part of today's game...then I think the most prudent approach is to calculate which of your balls is capable of what...rank them...and when deciding on an optimal line...using the ball in the middle (for me, #3 of 5 choices).

It would be great to have time to roll every ball in our arsenal on every different imaginable line (envisions Iceman with a wheelbarrow full of balls and practice taking 3.5 hours) but we don't have time for that. You got maybe 10 shots in a 5-man league. Using my old strategy I would start with the most aggressive ball as far right as I could...then move left over time. And I'd rarely ever move to another ball...I mean, why would I?? I have PLENTY of room to move left!!

But NOW...after seeing my strike rate dip into the sub 30s....and seeing weak pocket hit after weak pocket hit after weak pocket hit...I'm trying to figure out how to vary my lines and vary my arsenal so that I can turn those pocket hits into strikes. Otherwise, I'm going to end up the best spare shooter in the history of bowling....that nobody has ever heard of because my maximum possible score is a god*** 201!

Whats interesting Rob...is early on...from reading much of your "stuff" (here and elsewhere)...you seemed to be very "pro-arsenal"...but recently it seems you've moved away from that position to a "just play inside and move your feet" sort of position. Have you seen yourself moving to a different position? Or am I just reading too much into the articles? And I don't mean that with any disrespect...I actually think many "experts" are flawed in their inability to change positions...no matter WHAT.

Also, disclaimer for new people...don't listen to me...listen to Rob...he is wise and Aslan sucks (<-----doesnt even throw a plastic spare ball for crying out loud!)

1. It's no typo. A ball played in too much oil will skid further and appear to hook less, while a ball played in too much friction will hook sooner, run out of energy and will hook less.

2. As I have said time and time again, an aggressive ball does not hook more than a less aggressive ball, it just hooks sooner. You can't choose a ball based on what gets you to the pocket, you must choose a ball, played on the line that the lane demands that you play, that gives you the most miss room, and the greatest amount of carry when you don't miss.

3. Very perceptive about my point of view about arsenals, at least to a point. Bowlers have gone full circle from refusing to carry more than one ball, to bringing a zillion balls to league in order to play on a part of the lane that doesn't want to be played. Your comment about weak hit after weak hit seems to confirm this. If you keep trying to play in the friction, your ball loses energy, and the result is a loss of carry. For most league situations, three balls and a spare ball are plenty. The more you understand the motion of the ball and can make educated ball changes when they are really required, the less you will find yourself making them.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Rob's point #1 there is really the perfect definition of what i like to see especially early on in a set. Using a medium to strong ball that revs up early and reads the mid lane, i try to play right on top of the shim. Get it a little right in the dry and it burns up a little and does not over hook and a little left has enough power to start rolling up in the oil.

[RobLV1]

As I have stated a lot recently, my switch to Brunswick equipment was based primarily on my desire to play left of the league bowlers who always play the second arrow. By starting with a more aggressive bowling ball and playing left of them, most days I only have to adjust as my own line burns up, and I rarely run into anyone who is left of me. I not talking, by the way, of starting at the fourth arrow. I usually start around 13 board, and rarely have to get left of about 16 or 17 during a three game set.

[Amyers]

Realize it's 20% out of annoyance with the "inside line" that everyone claims is "the cure" yet nobdy ever mentions the drawbacks to that line (more likely to go through the head, washouts, ...) and 80% out of frustration with my present game (lack there of actually).


The bottom line is, bowling is a simple game that is highly dependent on physics. From the time you pick up your bowling ball from the ball return...you could give physics lectures on about 12 different topics as you approach, release, the ball travels, and finally makes contact with the pins. To me, it is what is so frustrating yet at the same time fascinating about the sport. Bowling is about the only sport that you can do as a blind person...maybe swimming. It requires little physical prowess. And it's one of the few games that on a given day, you could actually beat a pro (although highly unlikely).

And I give such detailed information, and make a case for it, and disagree at times...because bowling is a game where people read this stuff...and then skip on over to their bowling center and try to do what they read. And they get frustrated because "3 people said I should play the inside line and that my ball would do the work and I don't need any hand, etc.." and they'll get frustrated. It's NOT that the advice was bad. It's just that different bowlers have different styles, limitations, and equipment...and bowl on different conditions. So sometimes it helps to get a counter-arguement or different prospective so that they can stop and go, "hmm...I'll have to think about that before I do it."


I wouldn't count on that miss room.
1) When you play inside...IF you miss...it's likely a washout or a split. You might get lucky and it's just a weak hit...but be careful.
2) That miss room changes GREATLY condition to condition!

When I used to roll on wood....I LOVED IT!! I could miss 6 boards to the right!!! SIX BOARDS!!! Do you think that "helped" or "hurt" my game? It hurt it. Because whether it was other local centers or Vegas...I suddenly was throwing the ball all over the place! Prior to switching from wood to synthetic...I think our league had 7 bowlers with averages over 200. As of last week we had 2. A LOT of people miss that 6-board cushion they used to get...just sayin.

Everybody wants to take short cuts. They want to bowl 2-handed, or thumbless, or buy a better ball. But the BOTTOM LINE is...the difference between YOU and a PBA PRO...is TWO THINGS:
1) 10,000 hours of practice
2) They have a shot variation of 1.5 inches and your shot varies by several inches or more.

Thats it. Close those 2 gaps...we'll be watching you on TV. Ignore those 2 gaps and focus on any of the other 12,000 different bowling distractions...you get to see your name at the top of the league scoresheet a few times a season.

Sorry...saw an empty soapbox and had to get up on it.

A few points to this:

#1. I haven't noticed any more weak hits or washouts than throwing outside with the euphoria. or washouts with this line. I may have had a few more splits but if it's up it's less than one per game and I'll take that for the higher strike percentage. Most of those have been caused by me being slow to move than the line itself.

#2. I've played this on synthetics also no real difference

#3. I have no immediate plans to join the PBA tour. If I do I will wait until 50 and join the old guys. I figure by the amount of torque Belmo puts on his back he'll be in a wheel chair by then and should be easy.

#4. You are correct about all advice not fitting everyone. I couldn't do what I'm doing now three weeks ago I'm still not all the way there. I'm not telling my wife who has less revs than you to start bowling the same lines I am no more than I am going to pick up a ball tomorrow and start hooking the gutters.

#5 this from one of Rob's post about your ball burning up out on the dry I think you have way more of that then you know.

[Amyers]

As I have stated a lot recently, my switch to Brunswick equipment was based primarily on my desire to play left of the league bowlers who always play the second arrow. By starting with a more aggressive bowling ball and playing left of them, most days I only have to adjust as my own line burns up, and I rarely run into anyone who is left of me. I not talking, by the way, of starting at the fourth arrow. I usually start around 13 board, and rarely have to get left of about 16 or 17 during a three game set.

Just because I wonder what was it about Brunswick equipment you felt was more suited to playing left? Other than the Forterra which I like it seems to me there equipment is less suited to playing out there than some of the others.

[RobLV1]

Brunswick balls read the oil. You can play in, and the ball will start the read in the oil and still finish. They won't over-read the dry. The Fortera Exile, with the OOB finish, reacts like it comes from Utah. To make it Brunswick, I put a 1000 surface on four sides and finished it off very lightly with 4000. Tonight I threw the Mastermind Genius, the Meanstrak Brawler, and the LT 48. I missed being high on the pair by one pin.

[Amyers]

Brunswick balls read the oil. You can play in, and the ball will start the read in the oil and still finish. They won't over-read the dry. The Fortera Exile, with the OOB finish, reacts like it comes from Utah. To make it Brunswick, I put a 1000 surface on four sides and finished it off very lightly with 4000. Tonight I threw the Mastermind Genius, the Meanstrak Brawler, and the LT 48. I missed being high on the pair by one pin.

I understand Brunswick has been putting out some nice pieces. I don't see very many where I bowl my leagues at but one of the local places we visit has a Brunswick staffer in the pro shop who really likes there stuff.

[Aslan]

1. It's no typo. A ball played in too much oil will skid further and appear to hook less, while a ball played in too much friction will hook sooner, run out of energy and will hook less.

So according to that logic...whether you play a ball in oil or friction...it will hook less. Thats depressing.

3. Very perceptive about my point of view about arsenals, at least to a point.

HA!! Rob is an expert and he said I am perceptive! So the rest of you can ^^^^ it!! I'm awesome!! (to a point).

[mc_runner]

So according to that logic...whether you play a ball in oil or friction...it will hook less. Thats depressing.

To me it sounds more like that's if you're playing the wrong ball, or the wrong line for the ball. The right line or right line for the ball will hook just enough! Just like Goldilocks... one oatmeal was too hot, one was too cold but one was juuuuuust right