Inside Lines VS Outside Lines

[Amyers]

I have been bowling more inside lines with my new asylum and it has me thinking about how I have bowled in the past. I have always played my lines as more of a tweener to outside bowler

Basically Tweener (20-25 with the feet 10-15 target) with very little movement to the right after I release (target 10 break point 8 or so) Outside (15-20 feet 5-10 target) also with very little movement to the right.

With the asylum I'm more outside with much more movement to the right. Standing 25 targeting 12 five at the break point or standing 30 targeting 15 eight-ten at the break point.

With this outside line it seems that accuracy is not as much of a premium that it is with the tweener outside lines. As far as I can tell with the inside lines if I get the ball outside of 10 I get a solid pocket hit. I had one shot last night with me at thirty standing the ball got out to 1-2 board still came back in the pocket strike. I also had some shots that went across 15 out to 10 strike. With an outside line I do not have ten boards of miss room.

I'm not saying that all ten boards is the optimal strike line have left some 7 and 10 pins but all with solid pocket hits no light stuff no middle of the head pin hits.


My real question here is am I thinking wrong here or why doesn't everyone throw these lines?

I also understand these lines may not work as well on sport patterns just referring to THS.

[MICHAEL]

Its just another tool to have in your arsenal when needed in my opinion! Sometimes on House oil especially, that out side works great! Other times for what ever reason, the inside works great. This is something I am working on at the present time! The more ways you know to attack the lanes, the better. A Rose by Any other lane is still a Rose...... (or is that name? lol)

[mc_runner]

Sounds like you've found the sweet spot for your ball. Some balls won't have the recovery room for a down and in shot and you have to hit within a board or 2 downlane... while some are better for that kind of throw and will recover better off the end of the pattern. I can't throw my Vivid down the same line as my LT-48 for example - I mean I CAN but one ball's strength is different than another's and the LT-48 is better at holding it's line and not going over/under (but I can't play inside as well with it since it won't hook in enough).

[Amyers]

Sounds like you've found the sweet spot for your ball. Some balls won't have the recovery room for a down and in shot and you have to hit within a board or 2 downlane... while some are better for that kind of throw and will recover better off the end of the pattern. I can't throw my Vivid down the same line as my LT-48 for example - I mean I CAN but one ball's strength is different than another's and the LT-48 is better at holding it's line and not going over/under (but I can't play inside as well with it since it won't hook in enough).

True I can't play that line with my Euphoria either and I'm sure there are plenty of higher speed rev challenged bowlers who can't get out there regardless of ball but mainly was wondering for those who can why they aren't.

[RobLV1]

They don't because they think they don't have enough "hand" to get the ball back so they try to help it which kills it all together. You just discovered that modern bowling balls are so strong that they will get back all by themselves. Congratulations!

[Aslan]

They don't because they think they don't have enough "hand" to get the ball back so they try to help it which kills it all together. You just discovered that modern bowling balls are so strong that they will get back all by themselves. Congratulations!

Mine won't. I can prove it.

For the past year, I've primarily played the "outside" line. Now, that is going to vary GREATLY in terms of what one person considers outside/middle/inside versus what someone else considers outside/inside/middle...but primarily I would tend to lay the ball down around the 10-board and use the 7-board at the arrows. I consider anything 8-board or right of that (for righties) as "outside".

The advantage to this line for me was:
1) With very few rpms...it can often get the ball a better angle into the pocket just by letting the ball and lanes work together.
2) As the lanes break down, it gives you the most room left to move.
3) It's usually outside of the common track (9-13 boards) where many of the bowlers are going to be playing.

Recently, I've been following Rob's recommendation that instead of playing a certain line and then adjusting to make that line work...perhaps you should try all 3 lines and see which one the individual lane is "giving to you" to play.

So now in pre-league practice; I will throw at least one ball on each of the 3 "lines". The ball may differ mased on what ball works better on each line (pre-determined in practice). With 5 options, I chooser the ball that is in the "middle" in terms of aggressiveness...which gives me room to ball up or ball down if needed.

What I'VE found is that many times the lane will dictate the "middle" line rather than the outside or inside. Especially now that the lanes are synthetic and they seem to be adding more oil...my low rpms aren't letting me use the inside line and the "dry" on the outside isn't quite as "dry" as it used to be...both lines leading to weak hits.

But I'm still open to using whatever line seems to work best. Last Thursday, one lane seemed to point towards the middle line while the other pointed towards using the outside line. Sunday, when bowling on the Wolf pattern, I bowled the outside line on one lane and inside line on the other.

Part of my learning process, in addition to eventually finding more revs, is to change my concept of what "inside" is. Bill O'Neill plays the "inside" line by standing with his left foot near the left gutter and targeting the 2-board 3/4 down the lane on a short pattern. I can say with 100% certainty...THAT is not the same "inside line" that Rob uses if you watch his videos nor is that the line that many folks on here who have embraced the "inside" line.

For us "non-Bill O'Neills"...the "inside line" is more throwing the ball up the center and allowing it to "catch" the dry, then come back leisurely into the pocket. Not the angular motion you see in all the bowling ball promotional videos. So NOW...instead of trying (with utter futility) to play an inside line where I'm standing near the left gutter and trying to hit the breakpoint...I've moved my "inside line" into more of laying it down on the 18-board and aiming for something like the 17-board at the arrows. Once where you lay it down starts to vary too much from your target at the arrows...thats when you start to create so much angle that you NEED RPMs.

I want to develop my inside line as yet another "option"...another tool in the toolbox per se. But I still honestly feel that the more rev dependent your game becomes...the more erratic the scores become. Mike White is a perfect example. As he showed in the VBT last month...is potential to score dwarfs the competition. But, it has to be on conditions that are consistent with his expectations. You take him outside the lanes and fresh oil that his game is adapted for...and he struggles...sometimes mightily. His game is rev dominant. He's the only guy I know (seen in person) that gets an angular motion without throwing thumbless or 2-handed. And when he's "on"...he's almost unbeatable. But when he's "off"....??? I used to be similar...my higher rev rate was great for getting me scores in the 180s...despite HORRID spare shooting skills. But when I was "off"....I'd score int the 120s, 100s, 90s...

So, for right now...my game focuses on accuracy and repeatability. Sure...it's frustrating...to bowl clean games in the 170s-190s and strike at 10-20%. Thats VERY frustrating! But I'll take scores in the 160s-190s consistently over scores in the 90s-220s all over the map. Eventually the revs will come...and when they do...maybe I can spend more time on the inside. Who knows...maybe someday I'll join Bill O'Neill by the left gutter! But not anytime soon I'm afraid.

[Amyers]

Mine won't. I can prove it.

For the past year, I've primarily played the "outside" line. Now, that is going to vary GREATLY in terms of what one person considers outside/middle/inside versus what someone else considers outside/inside/middle...but primarily I would tend to lay the ball down around the 10-board and use the 7-board at the arrows. I consider anything 8-board or right of that (for righties) as "outside".

The advantage to this line for me was:
1) With very few rpms...it can often get the ball a better angle into the pocket just by letting the ball and lanes work together.
2) As the lanes break down, it gives you the most room left to move.
3) It's usually outside of the common track (9-13 boards) where many of the bowlers are going to be playing.

Recently, I've been following Rob's recommendation that instead of playing a certain line and then adjusting to make that line work...perhaps you should try all 3 lines and see which one the individual lane is "giving to you" to play.

So now in pre-league practice; I will throw at least one ball on each of the 3 "lines". The ball may differ mased on what ball works better on each line (pre-determined in practice). With 5 options, I chooser the ball that is in the "middle" in terms of aggressiveness...which gives me room to ball up or ball down if needed.

What I'VE found is that many times the lane will dictate the "middle" line rather than the outside or inside. Especially now that the lanes are synthetic and they seem to be adding more oil...my low rpms aren't letting me use the inside line and the "dry" on the outside isn't quite as "dry" as it used to be...both lines leading to weak hits.

But I'm still open to using whatever line seems to work best. Last Thursday, one lane seemed to point towards the middle line while the other pointed towards using the outside line. Sunday, when bowling on the Wolf pattern, I bowled the outside line on one lane and inside line on the other.

Part of my learning process, in addition to eventually finding more revs, is to change my concept of what "inside" is. Bill O'Neill plays the "inside" line by standing with his left foot near the left gutter and targeting the 2-board 3/4 down the lane on a short pattern. I can say with 100% certainty...THAT is not the same "inside line" that Rob uses if you watch his videos nor is that the line that many folks on here who have embraced the "inside" line.

For us "non-Bill O'Neills"...the "inside line" is more throwing the ball up the center and allowing it to "catch" the dry, then come back leisurely into the pocket. Not the angular motion you see in all the bowling ball promotional videos. So NOW...instead of trying (with utter futility) to play an inside line where I'm standing near the left gutter and trying to hit the breakpoint...I've moved my "inside line" into more of laying it down on the 18-board and aiming for something like the 17-board at the arrows. Once where you lay it down starts to vary too much from your target at the arrows...thats when you start to create so much angle that you NEED RPMs.

I want to develop my inside line as yet another "option"...another tool in the toolbox per se. But I still honestly feel that the more rev dependent your game becomes...the more erratic the scores become. Mike White is a perfect example. As he showed in the VBT last month...is potential to score dwarfs the competition. But, it has to be on conditions that are consistent with his expectations. You take him outside the lanes and fresh oil that his game is adapted for...and he struggles...sometimes mightily. His game is rev dominant. He's the only guy I know (seen in person) that gets an angular motion without throwing thumbless or 2-handed. And when he's "on"...he's almost unbeatable. But when he's "off"....??? I used to be similar...my higher rev rate was great for getting me scores in the 180s...despite HORRID spare shooting skills. But when I was "off"....I'd score int the 120s, 100s, 90s...

So, for right now...my game focuses on accuracy and repeatability. Sure...it's frustrating...to bowl clean games in the 170s-190s and strike at 10-20%. Thats VERY frustrating! But I'll take scores in the 160s-190s consistently over scores in the 90s-220s all over the map. Eventually the revs will come...and when they do...maybe I can spend more time on the inside. Who knows...maybe someday I'll join Bill O'Neill by the left gutter! But not anytime soon I'm afraid.

I knew this was going to trigger an Aslan post I'm surprised it wasn't two pages. Actually I like your detailed info and that you back up what your saying. I'm still working on it myself. Had a bad game my first game in leagues last night. I still close up sometimes or screw the release up but I'm finding myself more and more comfortable moving left. I don't think I'll ever be out there with O'Neil either not sure I want to be. It is liberating the extra miss room you have out there compared to the outside lines.

I've played the inside line you are talking about in you reply for years but its really nothing like what I experienced last night. The ball seemed almost like it was seeking out where it wanted to be instead of me putting it where I wanted. I didn't throw any 300's or anything but I don't know for the first time in a long while I felt like if I quit making my few mistakes really high scores are just around the corner. I say this now I'm subbing for a guy tonight I'll go throw some miserable scores but who knows. Never tempt the bowling gods by getting to full on yourself.

[RobLV1]

Mine won't. I can prove it.

For the past year, I've primarily played the "outside" line. Now, that is going to vary GREATLY in terms of what one person considers outside/middle/inside versus what someone else considers outside/inside/middle...but primarily I would tend to lay the ball down around the 10-board and use the 7-board at the arrows. I consider anything 8-board or right of that (for righties) as "outside".

The advantage to this line for me was:
1) With very few rpms...it can often get the ball a better angle into the pocket just by letting the ball and lanes work together.
2) As the lanes break down, it gives you the most room left to move.
3) It's usually outside of the common track (9-13 boards) where many of the bowlers are going to be playing.

Recently, I've been following Rob's recommendation that instead of playing a certain line and then adjusting to make that line work...perhaps you should try all 3 lines and see which one the individual lane is "giving to you" to play.

So now in pre-league practice; I will throw at least one ball on each of the 3 "lines". The ball may differ mased on what ball works better on each line (pre-determined in practice). With 5 options, I chooser the ball that is in the "middle" in terms of aggressiveness...which gives me room to ball up or ball down if needed.

What I'VE found is that many times the lane will dictate the "middle" line rather than the outside or inside. Especially now that the lanes are synthetic and they seem to be adding more oil...my low rpms aren't letting me use the inside line and the "dry" on the outside isn't quite as "dry" as it used to be...both lines leading to weak hits.

But I'm still open to using whatever line seems to work best. Last Thursday, one lane seemed to point towards the middle line while the other pointed towards using the outside line. Sunday, when bowling on the Wolf pattern, I bowled the outside line on one lane and inside line on the other.

Part of my learning process, in addition to eventually finding more revs, is to change my concept of what "inside" is. Bill O'Neill plays the "inside" line by standing with his left foot near the left gutter and targeting the 2-board 3/4 down the lane on a short pattern. I can say with 100% certainty...THAT is not the same "inside line" that Rob uses if you watch his videos nor is that the line that many folks on here who have embraced the "inside" line.

For us "non-Bill O'Neills"...the "inside line" is more throwing the ball up the center and allowing it to "catch" the dry, then come back leisurely into the pocket. Not the angular motion you see in all the bowling ball promotional videos. So NOW...instead of trying (with utter futility) to play an inside line where I'm standing near the left gutter and trying to hit the breakpoint...I've moved my "inside line" into more of laying it down on the 18-board and aiming for something like the 17-board at the arrows. Once where you lay it down starts to vary too much from your target at the arrows...thats when you start to create so much angle that you NEED RPMs.

I want to develop my inside line as yet another "option"...another tool in the toolbox per se. But I still honestly feel that the more rev dependent your game becomes...the more erratic the scores become. Mike White is a perfect example. As he showed in the VBT last month...is potential to score dwarfs the competition. But, it has to be on conditions that are consistent with his expectations. You take him outside the lanes and fresh oil that his game is adapted for...and he struggles...sometimes mightily. His game is rev dominant. He's the only guy I know (seen in person) that gets an angular motion without throwing thumbless or 2-handed. And when he's "on"...he's almost unbeatable. But when he's "off"....??? I used to be similar...my higher rev rate was great for getting me scores in the 180s...despite HORRID spare shooting skills. But when I was "off"....I'd score int the 120s, 100s, 90s...

So, for right now...my game focuses on accuracy and repeatability. Sure...it's frustrating...to bowl clean games in the 170s-190s and strike at 10-20%. Thats VERY frustrating! But I'll take scores in the 160s-190s consistently over scores in the 90s-220s all over the map. Eventually the revs will come...and when they do...maybe I can spend more time on the inside. Who knows...maybe someday I'll join Bill O'Neill by the left gutter! But not anytime soon I'm afraid.

You find the "middle" line works in practice because the oil is fresh and that's where the oil line is. Inside there is more oil (less friction = ball doesn't hook as much or finish as strong), and outside there is less oil - more friction (more friction = ball doesn't hook as much or finish as strong). This is particularly true if you start with an intermediate ball to allow you to ball up or down. If you start with a more aggressive ball, you can start further in, and if you start with a less aggressive ball, you can start further out. Just remember that when you choose to start further out, or even around the second arrow, you need to be aware that as your line dries up and you have to move left, you may very well be moving right into an area that another bowler has already dried up.

[Shaneshu87]

my Black Widow Legend is that way i had a 10 board mark. for me it has allot to do with the ball, i can play my Raw Hammer Jacked straight up the 10 and average just the same as i can with my Legend playing the lanes open, i fi tried to play my jacked on the same line as the legend it would probably sink the 6 pin since it simply does not have the ability to come back with my low revs. it does not matter how you strike just as long as your striking.

[Aslan]

If you start with a more aggressive ball, you can start further in,

Maybe. But based on my recent ball study, there is little difference ball to ball (Shh...the bowling ball companies don't want that to get out)

and outside there is less oil - more friction (more friction = ball doesn't hook as much or finish as strong)....... and if you start with a less aggressive ball, you can start further out.

???
So, are you saying that I can start with a less aggressive ball further out because it's drier and will hook more...but the finish/angle isn't going to be as strong?? Those two statements (above) seem to contradict each other. Might be a typo.

Just remember that when you choose to start further out, or even around the second arrow, you need to be aware that as your line dries up and you have to move left, you may very well be moving right into an area that another bowler has already dried up.

I used to worry about that...but even in a 5-man team (x2) there are like 8 RH bowlers...and the line doesn't seem to dry up until game 3, midway or near the end. I mean, yeah...if you're talking tournaments or something like that...but on house conditions with 3/5 of the bowlers unable to even hit their mark in the first place...I haven't noticed it much.

But yes, early on in my experimentation...playing the outside line...I was worried that by the time I got to boards 9-13...they'd be dried up and I'd start getting even more hook. I even designed a "system" to help with this which made me ball down when I got to that track and move further inside and ball up if that wasn't working. But I've abandoned that system for my new one.

This is particularly true if you start with an intermediate ball to allow you to ball up or down.

IF there is ANYTHING to arsenals...which 1 year ago I would have said was complete nonsense...and am now sort of "wavering" on post-ball study....THEN, you MUST give yourself room to ball up or down. If you start inside with your most aggressive ball...and you're not getting the reaction you want...you have room to move outside and adapt...but it may not give you the best angle. But the real problem is what if it hooks too much...there's only so far you can move left...then you're really in trouble. IF (and I'm not 100% sold on this yet) arsenals are an important part of today's game...then I think the most prudent approach is to calculate which of your balls is capable of what...rank them...and when deciding on an optimal line...using the ball in the middle (for me, #3 of 5 choices).

It would be great to have time to roll every ball in our arsenal on every different imaginable line (envisions Iceman with a wheelbarrow full of balls and practice taking 3.5 hours) but we don't have time for that. You got maybe 10 shots in a 5-man league. Using my old strategy I would start with the most aggressive ball as far right as I could...then move left over time. And I'd rarely ever move to another ball...I mean, why would I?? I have PLENTY of room to move left!!

But NOW...after seeing my strike rate dip into the sub 30s....and seeing weak pocket hit after weak pocket hit after weak pocket hit...I'm trying to figure out how to vary my lines and vary my arsenal so that I can turn those pocket hits into strikes. Otherwise, I'm going to end up the best spare shooter in the history of bowling....that nobody has ever heard of because my maximum possible score is a god*** 201!

Whats interesting Rob...is early on...from reading much of your "stuff" (here and elsewhere)...you seemed to be very "pro-arsenal"...but recently it seems you've moved away from that position to a "just play inside and move your feet" sort of position. Have you seen yourself moving to a different position? Or am I just reading too much into the articles? And I don't mean that with any disrespect...I actually think many "experts" are flawed in their inability to change positions...no matter WHAT.

Also, disclaimer for new people...don't listen to me...listen to Rob...he is wise and Aslan sucks (<-----doesnt even throw a plastic spare ball for crying out loud!)