Trying to Setup Bowling Arsenal, but all the balls react the same.

[bobforsaken]

Let me give you a quick rundown on what makes balls do what they do. There are four elements that contribute to how a ball reacts: the core, the layout, the cover material, and the surface. All balls hook the same amount in terms of the angle of direction change, but some hook earlier and some hook later. In terms of the core, there are three key factors; symmetry, the low rg (radius of gyration), and the differential (the difference between the low rg and the high rg). The lower the rg measurement is (it's actually a measurement in inches), the sooner the ball is designed to roll. Right now, you have two very early rolling balls in terms of rg, the Optimus at 2.48, and the Fusion at 2.49. The differential in the Optimus is quite high, while the differential in the Fusion is quite low. This would make a big difference to a high rev player, but not too much to the rest of us. The Cyclone is in the mid-range in terms of rg at 2.53. The second element, the layout, does nothing other than to change the actual rg and differential numbers, by positioning the core within the ball. Ball drillers want you to believe that there is something magic about layouts. There isn't. The third element is the cover material. There are three types of cover materials solids, pearls, and hybrids (a combination of solid and pearl materials). Your Optimus is a pearl, and your Fusion is a hybrid. You don't indicate which Cyclone you have, so I don't know the specific material. It's difficult to determine the actual aggressiveness of cover materials, but usually price point is a good place to start. Both the Optimus and the Fusion are from Storm's highest priced line of symmetrically cored balls. This would be an indication that both covers are pretty aggressive. The Cyclone is from Ebonite's lowest priced line of reactive balls that would indicate that it has a less aggressive cover material. The one factor that can be readily changed is the surface, but you need to make surface changes to compliment the other elements in the bowling ball. For this reason, adding more surface to the Cyclone which is the least aggressive ball you have in terms of both core and cover material makes no sense. It's kind of like trying to put snow tires on a race car; it just doesn't work. I would suggest making your next ball a solid in the mid/high rg range. I think that the Storm Zero Gravity would be a good choice for you. It will give you good length, and the strong cover and asymmetrical core will give you a different look in terms of motion down the lane.

Thank you, Rob.. Excellent read! To answer your question, I think the Cyclone I have is 4000 Grit with "powerhouse" finish (whatever that means). I had a coach watch me throw the Cyclone and Fusion a few weeks ago, and he said there isn't much difference in how the balls are reacting which lead me to think taking the Cyclone and polishing may make it fill that dryer condition role I originally intended for it. I should state that I have about 150 games on each of those balls (I've practiced a ton over the last 3-4 Months) so Factory OOB finish may not be what I actually have anymore. The Fusion and Cyclone are both duller than OOB I'm sure. (BTW, I play on wood lanes)

I'm inclined to go with the Zero Gravity or Crux in a Month or two, but will wait and learn what I can between now and then.

Thanks!

[Joker]

just to get something clear for myself.. i kept reading you wanted a ball for the dry area? What exactly do you mean for the dry area? You're playing in the track area which to mean says that you're going to be moving throughout the games (however many you may be bowling) so are you trying to get the cyclone to use in the dried up spot you were bowling on so you don't have to move or is your house sometimes dry and sometimes oily?

[RobLV1]

Keep in mind that he stated that he is bowling on wooden lanes, and that makes a ton of difference. One of the things that makes modern reactive balls so reactive is the fact that the materials from which they are made and the materials from which synthetic lanes are made are not that much different. I remember reading somewhere when reactive balls were first introduced about a bond that is formed between the surface of the ball and the synthetic lane material as the ball rolls down the lane. Don't quote me on that, but it makes sense to me. If this is in fact the case, then the reactions that you would get from different bowling balls on a wooden lane surface would be much more similar than they are on synthetics.

[bobforsaken]

Keep in mind that he stated that he is bowling on wooden lanes, and that makes a ton of difference. One of the things that makes modern reactive balls so reactive is the fact that the materials from which they are made and the materials from which synthetic lanes are made are not that much different. I remember reading somewhere when reactive balls were first introduced about a bond that is formed between the surface of the ball and the synthetic lane material as the ball rolls down the lane. Don't quote me on that, but it makes sense to me. If this is in fact the case, then the reactions that you would get from different bowling balls on a wooden lane surface would be much more similar than they are on synthetics.

That never even occurred to me. I've never played on Synthetic Lanes but that might be why I'm not seeing the same difference in reactions as I thought would be the case in comparing ball reviews (youtube) that compared the fusion and optimus. Other than the reviewers just having more revs than I, it may have been the lane conditions they were reviewing on vs the wood lane house pattern I use.

To answer your question joker.. its more for when I go to the bowling center and get lane that has not been oiled for days and can't seem to find a line to the pocket because everything wants to hook to the other side of the pin deck. Currently when that happens the only angle I find that kind of works is almost playing straight up the 15 board, and that seems give me trouble with carry. The other role would be a closer for when the lanes get really wrecked from a lot of bowlers and I've moved as deep as I'm comfortable but need to finish out the last half a game. Granted this is theoretical, since I've never actually played long enough with enough bowlers to experience this first hand.

[Aslan]

Is it just me with my lower revs masking the differences in the balls or is this considered normal for the 3 Balls below:

Ebonite Cyclone/Solid GB10.7 Coverstock/2.53RG Diff .053 (Med/Light Oil)

IQ Tour Fusion/R2S Hybrid Coverstock/ 2.49RG Diff .029 (Med/Heavy Oil)

Optimus/ R2X Pearl Coverstock/2.48RG Diff .048 (Med/Heavy Oil)

For a more detailed look at this issue; see my post HERE.

I will be expanding on that with a video, pictures, etc.. I just have put that project on hold while I prepare for Vegas/Laughlin the end of this month. But yes, I found the same thin in the study I did. A lower rev player, throwing ball drilled very differently, all other things equal...will see virtually no difference in reaction.

First of all, your were "hoping to use the Fusion for a benchmark ball and to play the track area of our house shot." Really? Playing the lanes the way you want to play them is like doing things your way instead of the way your wife tells you to... you lose!

Rob- I think what he was trying to accomplish is what I was trying to accomplish when exploring an arsenal. And really, It's kind've the fault of bowling "experts" and the bowling industry as a whole. I heard a LOT of preaching abot "arsenals" and ball changes when I first got into bowling a year ago. Obviously, the manufacturers also push this heavily. Even YOUR position on changing balls has changed a bit hasn't it??

Now....as to where to play a lane, I kinda disagree with you on that. Yes, you want to play the lanes as the lanes dictate. And I've really changed my approach on league night in terms of trying different lines in practice to see if one line works better than another. BUT...BUT...for this guy (it sounds like) and for me...without a power swing or high rev rate...trying to play inside (deep (25-20 boards) or even shallow (20-15 boards) is a dangerous game. And as this fella found (and I found earlier, see the other thread); arsenals don't seem to fix that problem. At the end of the day, getting a ball to hit the dry area and make a sharp turn into the pocket is a function of revs and surface/lane dryness. Belmo, Page, O'Neill, etc.. can loft the left gutter because they have rev rates that are extremely high. So, my point is, getting a new/stronger ball isn't going to allow you to play "true inside". Not with higher speed and lower revs.

I think sometimes with all the marketing we expect more differences in balls than there really are. Some will be earlier than others some will be different shapes on the hook but at the end of the day mostly they are going to end up in the same spot. The ball helps control when it hooks and your entry angle most everything else is how you throw it.

EXACTLY. Thats why most reaction videos are useless garbage. They show a guy reving the ball up to 450-600rpms and then Joe Schmoe goes and buys a new ball and gets washout after washout after washout.

I agree I need to expand my skills, but I'm trying to understand what I may need in the future, before I'm ready to actually take advantage of it, if that makes sense.

Better investment to improve your skills (release, approach, timing, etc...) than to create an arsenal. Especially if you're bowling on wood lanes. I think there is some advantage to an arsenal on varying center conditions and varying sport patterns. But if I only bowled on wood lanes, I'd have 2 bowling balls with me on league night...no real need for more than that. IMO

The differential in the Optimus is quite high, while the differential in the Fusion is quite low. This would make a big difference to a high rev player, but not too much to the rest of us.

Agreed.

That never even occurred to me. I've never played on Synthetic Lanes but that might be why I'm not seeing the same difference in reactions as I thought would be the case in comparing ball reviews (youtube) that compared the fusion and optimus.

Yup.

If you're a low rev, speed dominant player...that plays very well on wood lanes. I know wood lanes vary as do synthetics...but GENERALLY a lower rev, speed dominant game plays better on wood lanes than synthetics. Once or if you go to other centers...you'll see what I mean (I think).

I used to be high loft/speed dominant. It played very well on drier, older, wood conditions. Much of the league I was in used low level balls like Cyclones and Tropical Breezes. Speeds in the 18-24mph range. 10-12ft lofting very common. And it played fine. A lot of miss room to the right...a little miss room to the left. Then I played in a different house for a short league...and went to sweeps in Vegas...and suddenly I realized that to truly be successful I would need to develop a better game...a slower game, a more precise game and a game that is "adaptable" to various conditions.

RIGHT NOW

I have two Encounters drilled and surfaced VERY differently. And the difference in terms of foot position and target is as follows:
(N) = less aggressive/more polish. (A) - more aggressively drilled/500abralon/scuffed with 1000 grit wet/dry paper

"Middle Line"
Encounter (N): Left foot on board 20, target board 11.
Encounter (A): Left foot on board 23, target board 12.

"Outside Line"
Encounter (N): Left foot on board 17.5, target board 8.
Encounter (A): Left foot on board 20, target board 10.

So for a "middle" line, the (A) ball is a net 2 boards difference. On the outside line it's a harder comparison...and this is where you DO see a "differnce" between balls. The (A) ball is 2 boards stronger than the (N) ball playing around 2nd arrow. But when I start to move "outside", the more aggressive ball does not react well. Any shot outside of the 9-board...that ball wants to start moving way too quickly. Where as it's less aggressive counterpart...while being a net -0.5 boards weaker...allows me to go further outside.

So as you can see above, balls DO differ in reaction if you really pay attention. Maybe not as much on wood lanes...definitely not at higher speeds...especially with lower revs. But if I reach down and grab my Encounter (A) by accident and throw it up the 5-8 board...I'll probably know it by about 2/3 down the lane when that ball starts to move...much, much sooner than it's polished, less aggressively drilled counterpart.

Now, disclaimer, the above are just my observations. I'm sharing them because I recently have been researching the exact issue your post deals with AND I have extensive experience bowling on wood lanes...and I have a low rev rate, etc... The "experts" may disagree or have a different take on some of this stuff...the ball manufacturers certainly will disagree because their business success is very reliant on convincing people like yourself that a new ball will get you a better score and/or allow you to play the line Rhino Page plays. And while they "may" be right...I tend to put weight on observation. If a ball manufacturer wants to convince me their ball is super awesome...let me give it to a 140-170 average house bowler on a THS and lets see what the results are.

[bobforsaken]

Thanks Aslan.. I'm heading out to the Bowling center shortly and I'll try some lower speed comparisons on an outside line to see more of the difference. I'll check out your other post in a few. Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences!

[bobforsaken]

Interesting observation from my practice tonight. I played long enough on a pair to require some adjustments. I played primarily with the Optimus and for the first time I started leaving lots of 4 Pins. As I understand it, this could be an entry angle issue due to a very angular back end. I switched to the Fusion instead of moving my feet and the 4's went away. So there IS a difference in the ball reactions. But my lower rev rate, lack of consistency etc.. is making it a very subtle difference that probably is less significant than my own inconsistency.

[bobforsaken]

Another observation today in experimenting with increasing revs. Most certainly as I added revs and slowed down my speed I started to see a difference in the Fusion and Optimus today. The Optimus had much more miss room to the right and really made a sharp move to the pocket. The fusion would go high with the same miss to the right and in general the shape was much more of an arc. I didn't really notice this difference with my standard lower rev release. (as a disclaimer.. the Fusion is also no longer oob and has over 150 games on it with no maintenance)