Better in one league than another?????

[Amyers]

We are right back to ignoring core characteristics and focusing totally on cover. Why would a HyRoad Pearl possibly be considered a "step down piece" from a HyRoad Solid when they both have the same core. The only difference between the two balls is the cover material (same material, one solid and one pearl), and the surface? In terms of the Punchout, it actually has a lower rg than the HyRoad Solid (2.55 vs. 2.57). It does have a lower differential, and a pearl cover. Again, the main difference is surface. If you want to develop an arsenal, the low rg should be the first thing that you look at to make sure that you have a base of balls that you can make surface alterations to cover the widest possible range of potential lane conditions. My own arsenal, for example currently consists of four balls: an asymmetric solid with a low rg of 2.488, a symmetric solid with a low rg of 2.489, a symmetric hybrid with a low rg of 2.536, and a symmetric solid with a low rg of 2.56. All four balls take well to surface changes which I will often make, depending on where I am going to bowl. Setting up a system based on the low rg, prevents a bowler from accidentally ending up with two balls that are brought too close together by conflicting core/cover combinations.

I am not ignoring cores (although I do believe cover stock is more important than core by far). The Hyroad pearl or the Punch out is a step down from the Optimus 2.48 vs. 2.57 or 2.55 assuming 15lbs. I realize the core similarity between the two hyroads before I posted but I also know their is a large difference between a solid at 2000 and a polished pearl and he likes the hyroad solid I would imagine since that is what he is using most. Could he get this same effect by resurfacing the Hyroad solid yes but most of us do not have the time or the equipment to change a ball from a higher grit surface to a polished surface on a regular basis. The polished finish on either of those two balls should allow him to get through the worn down heads and mids better for bowling after the transition.

Your original post shows the problem with the logic being used here as the rg being the most important deciding factor of ball selection. He has a low rg polished ball and a high rg aggressively surface ball. do either of them make a good step down not really. The Optimus with its strong cover and early roll tendencies is better suited to start off with before transition the Hyroad solid if used after transition will most likely burn up on the drier lanes. Neither of these balls are really a step down piece because of the cover stock / surface prep of the balls not really the rg.

[RobLV1]

I am not ignoring cores (although I do believe cover stock is more important than core by far). The Hyroad pearl or the Punch out is a step down from the Optimus 2.48 vs. 2.57 or 2.55 assuming 15lbs. I realize the core similarity between the two hyroads before I posted but I also know their is a large difference between a solid at 2000 and a polished pearl and he likes the hyroad solid I would imagine since that is what he is using most. Could he get this same effect by resurfacing the Hyroad solid yes but most of us do not have the time or the equipment to change a ball from a higher grit surface to a polished surface on a regular basis. The polished finish on either of those two balls should allow him to get through the worn down heads and mids better for bowling after the transition.

Your original post shows the problem with the logic being used here as the rg being the most important deciding factor of ball selection. He has a low rg polished ball and a high rg aggressively surface ball. do either of them make a good step down not really. The Optimus with its strong cover and early roll tendencies is better suited to start off with before transition the Hyroad solid if used after transition will most likely burn up on the drier lanes. Neither of these balls are really a step down piece because of the cover stock / surface prep of the balls not really the rg.

So, why is it that you believe that cover is more important than core by far? Could it be because that's what you've always believed? If you take a high rev player who throws the ball at 20 mph, and a med/low rev player who throws the ball at 16 mph, the high rev players ball will come directly into contact with the lane 38% more than the lower rev player's ball. Logic tells us that for the lower rev/lower speed player, the resistance that a high rg provides to retain the energy in the ball is very important. Believe what you want, but realize that hanging on to outdated beliefs rather than taking the time to learn something new can only bite you in the butt in the long run.

[Amyers]

Well first off let me say I know I don't know everything and I'm here to learn as I believe most of the others on this site are also. I should not have said just cover stock I was including surface prep in that also. I do believe cores have an effect just not as important as surface and prep.

You didn't really answer the question though. It does appear that this is a instance of looking at strictly Rgs not working. Just by the numbers he has balls on the opposite ends of the spectrum Rg wize. Can't go much lower than 2.48 and 2.57 is relatively high. The problem here is the cover stocks and surface preps are bringing these balls together.

You don't feel the Optimus is a good step down from the hyroad solid. I don't either. You suggested altering the surface of both balls as a solution. I disagreed the changes you are suggesting would change both balls from what they were ment to be. I have no fear in altering surface adding a little or taking away. I'm not a fan of polishing lower grit equipment or sanding polished equipment adjusting them fine but you reach a point where it's not what they designed anymore.

The above goes double in this instance. If he had wanted a hyroad pearl he could have purchased one which is essentially what you have if you polish a hyroad solid. If he wanted a solid version of the Optimus he could have purchased a marvel s both balls were available when he bought these.

Myself as I've stated before he has two good choices for a ball to start off with. Play more squared up with the hyroad solid or play more stand left throw right with the Optimus at least that is how they would most likely work for me with what I've seen. The real problem is he needs a true step down piece.

I'm guessing he would stay storm since his other balls are from them. I suggested the punch out higher Rg than the Optimus slightly lower than the hyroad solid but with the polish and lower flare the ball should be more controllable than the hyroad solid on transitional conditions. Does this not make sense?

The other ball I suggested was the hyroad pearl now with this one it is thinner ice but from my personal experience the difference between a solid and a pearl is pretty significant. The pearl would allow him to get through the heads and mids on transitioning conditions. Not my first choice but if your staying storm those look the most likely step downs I see unless your going tropical breeze but that seems pretty excessive.

Am I missing something? Is there some other better option here that I'm not seeing within these confines?

[RobLV1]

Actually your thought about the Marvel S and the HyRoad (original hybrid version) would be spot on. Unfortunately, I don't think he's about to go out and replace the HyRoad Solid and the Optimus which is why I suggested altering the surfaces. Keep in mind that it could very well be that the original intention of both balls (HyRoad Solid and Optimus) is to appeal to those individuals who still believe that cover material and surface is everything, so they put a polished pearl on an early rolling ball, and a dull solid cover on a ball that is meant to go long. I really don't understand how the manufacturers decide on the OOB finish other than coming up with something that will appeal to their target consumer. I would still like to see his reaction to putting surface on the Optimus and polishing the HyRoad. I think he would be very pleasantly surprised when he reverses the order and starts with the Optimus and goes to the HyRoad when the lanes break down.