What makes a Pro Bowler better than an Amateur bowler??

[Aslan]

I think Missy P. and Danielle M. are really cute…but both are not only far younger…but both are married. Bummer.

[Hendu71]

Imho, in just about every thing under the sun, there is always going to be somebody better than you. For almost everything I consider myself good at, there's some teenage asian on youtube that can do it better, even if they've been doing it less time than me. Guitar playing, video game playing, you name it. Not everybody can be the best, and no amount of skill, training, knowledge, etc is going to put them at the very top tier. What's the EXACT thing that makes the difference? Who knows, but if everybody had it, bowling would be a joke.

I think it's best to try to be the best YOU can be, and not worry about people that are better than you. There will always be people better than you. In anything you do. The fact is there's only about 100 bowlers on the entire planet that are good enough to make any serious cash with their talents. Out of how many bowlers? Millions?

[Aslan]

Hendu isn't really a "motivational" speaker per se.

[Mudpuppy]

Okay, so there's been a lot of talk bouncing around about the future of the PBA, the future of sport bowling, and the reasons for the decline. Thats a separate topic.

But one thing that comes up here and there is regarding how the game has become easier, scores higher, equipment better...again, a separate topic.

But one thing I started thinking about is, what makes a "pro" better than the best guy/gal you bowl with in your leagues??

For me...in my 2nd league there was a guy that would be a threat to roll a perfect game once a night...but you didn't look at him and think "pro". And when I started bowling on sport patterns, sure, there were 1-3 guys that looked very good...but they never really averaged over 200...the sport patterns making them look "human". But then I joined a more competitive house league and saw a guy bowl that was just amazing. My new teammates said he has so many 300-games he doesn't really care anymore and I guess he won over $3,000 at sweeps last season. As I watched him bowl, it was apparent to me, he wasn't even really trying. If he strung a few strikes together he'd focus a bit more...but he didn't really care. I'm sure he'll just drift through the season...pad his handicap (currently 0) and when sweeps comes along and money can be won...THATs when he'll show up and actually "try".

But, as I annoyingly watched him bowl...and as I even more annoyingly watched me bowl like a toilet fly...I got to thinking, "What separates that guy WHEN HE TRIES from a PBA Pro bowler?" "Is the gap really that small that this bowler simply would need to be motivated and buy a PBA card and he'd be a "Pro"?"

Now, there's stuff all over the internet about gaps between pros and amateurs...varying by sport. I think most people would agree the gap in bowling is smaller than most other sports. It's less athletic for one thing. The risk of injury is lower. So even if the gap between pro and amateur is large; it's likely not as large as in baseball or football or tennis or ice hockey, etc...

As a sidenote...I can say with experience that the gap in bowling is nowhere near the gap in ice hockey. I played against college level players and players in lower level of Juniors...even high school players. And the difference between one of the better adult league hockey players and a player in juniors or D1 college...much less the AHL, IHL, NHL...is tremendously huge. I've watched guys who couldn't make a junior squad skate circles around some of the best adults I've ever played with...and these guys weren't GOOD ENOUGH to even make the team of a junior, college, or semi-pro team. But I digress...

The real question is, what is it that a PRO does that an AMATEUR isn't able to do or do consistently??? Here are some common answers and some answers that I've found throughout the web to serve as a catalyst for thought/discussion:

1) A USBC/Kegal video released not too long ago cites "accuracy" as the biggest difference based on their studies. They claim that an amateur when asked to hit a board repeatedly will miss by something like 1.5 boards on average. Yet a pro will miss by 0 to 0.5 boards. Those numbers may be a little off...but the general idea is it is accuracy that is the biggest difference.

2) Repeatability. Bowling isn't just about making a good shot...it's about making that SAME shot over and over and over again with little variation. The same steps, the same backswing, the same release....everything the same.

3) Timing. Most experts will say that timing is THE most important part of a bowler's game. While it's linked with repeatability (above)...is it that the pro's simply have that much better timing than amateurs?

4) Rev Rate. Sure, there are strokers, tweeners, crankers, and 2-handers in the Pros. But watch a "stroker" in the pros and see how fast his ball is going and what the rev rate is. A "PBA stroker" might be more like an amateur cranker. A rev rate around 280rpm and a ball speed around 18-19mph. Most pros average 20-21mph shots. At that speed, an increased rev rate is essential or the ball simply won't have time to make the turn.

5) Practice. Malcolm Gladwell (his books are horribly boring by the way) is famous for coming up with the "10,000 hour rule" where you need to practice something for 10,000 hours to be an expert at it. Is it that amateur bowlers don't PRACTICE. Most guys I play with on leagues NEVER practice. They simply bowl in 1-2 leagues...maybe go bowling with the family once a month if that. They don't "practice". Some guys bowl in a league almost every night...they don't have TIME to practice. Is THAT the difference? Pete Weber said in the 10 years before he joined the PBA, he practiced 6 hours a day every day. Thats 21,900 hours of practice.

6) Luck? There are a lot of famous poker players that just simply got lucky. They won a big tournament and people knew their name and suddenly they got offered sponsorships and started showing up on TV. Can a bowler just win a big tournament, get a name, then ride that train? Are there really excellent bowlers out there that just never hit that #1 spot and are thus still unknowns?

So, if it's ONE thing...if you narrowed it down to primarily ONE thing...what is IT? Think of some of the guys you bowl with that are clearly excellent at this game...so many 300-games they don't count them anymore...they can't tell ya how many 11-in-a-rows...maybe 1 or more 800 series. Maybe they participate in the USBC Open or are bronze/silver/gold level coaches or own an alley or pro shop. Why aren't THEY participating in the Summer King of Swing or WSOB or Masters?? What is that gap? Or maybe it's a former pro...used to be great...now they just give lessons or have taken up golf or opened a business. What did they LOSE? Sure...injuries can be one of the things...but what about former, retired pros that aren't injured?? What are they missing that they can't get back to compete with Rash and Belmonte? Why can PDW and Duke and WRW still do it?

Not meant as another thread where we bash the idea of amateurs being "pro level" and point out the difference in house and sport patterns. I play on both and understand the humility that comes with sport patterns. But what is IT in terms of the actual physical or technical game that amateurs in general are lacking? You can even think of it in terms of our own little community here. Mudpuppy qualified #1 in the AVI Challenge in Vegas...looked almost unbeatable! But then fell apart in the finals. If he can just fix whatever went wrong in the Finals...can he quit his day job? He looked DAMN good in qualifying! Do we need to see him on a sport patter in order to tell?? Or is it OBVIOUS that he's not a pro and never will be? What about VDubtx? Or MWhite? Both have virtually 0 handicap in the VBT...averages well over 200. What are they "missing" thats keeping them off the tour? VDub bowls the Open...both I think have bowled sport pattern leagues. How close ARE they? What would they need to do to make that happen??

In order to answer...we need to know what IT is? Is IT the GIFT? If so, and Iceman has IT....why is he NOT going to Vegas for the WSOB later this month??? Not to quote "In Living Colour"...80s reference...but "WHAT IS IT!!!

Mudpuppy Cliff Notes: Do you know a good bowler? How do you know he's "good" and it's not just that you suck?

You can't write 800 paragraphs then mock me with cliff notes - doesn't work that way. Your simple answer is the difference between an Amateur - let's, for argument sake, call him "Aslan" and a pro, we can call him Michael the god of Bowling aka Iceman, is the ability to score chicks. Plain and simple. Surfers dudes typically can't score chicks. And the names have been slightly or not altered at all to protect the guilty. Cliff notes, out.

[Mike White]

You can't write 800 paragraphs then mock me with cliff notes - doesn't work that way. Your simple answer is the difference between an Amateur - let's, for argument sake, call him "Aslan" and a pro, we can call him Michael the god of Bowling aka Iceman, is the ability to score chicks. Plain and simple. Surfers dudes typically can't score chicks. And the names have been slightly or not altered at all to protect the guilty. Cliff notes, out.

You seem to forget, the good ones all leave places like the Michigan, and come out to Sunny California, and they don't come out here to be alone.

[Aslan]

You can't write 800 paragraphs then mock me with cliff notes - doesn't work that way. Your simple answer is the difference between an Amateur - let's, for argument sake, call him "Aslan" and a pro, we can call him Michael the god of Bowling aka Iceman, is the ability to score chicks. Plain and simple. Surfers dudes typically can't score chicks. And the names have been slightly or not altered at all to protect the guilty. Cliff notes, out.

Whoa...

Lets just agree on one thing...it's not the ability to "score chicks"...it's the quality of the chicks you score. We both know bikers that have scored hot biker chicks...and very much NOT hot biker chicks. You can't give them equal credit. And I WILL say...surfer dudes do QUITE well at scoring chicks. And WAY better than bikers...and I'll explain why:

1) Surfers get up early in the morning. That means they likely are able to get up early in the morning...and thus could someday (if not already) hold a meaningful JOB. And what do women like even more than kindness, sense of humor, good looks??? Thats right...money.

2) Surfing requires at least SOME athletic ability. Ever see an obese guy surfing? Nope. Me neither. Ever see an obese motorcyle rider? Yup...virtually 80% of them. Of matter of fact...bikers are SO fat (how fat are they!!?) that they make things called "vest extenders" for overweight bikers that bought their leather vests in a time BEFORE they discovered cheese fries...and rather than buy a bigger vest and re-sew all the patches...they just use "vest extenders"...kinda like those seat belt extenders.

3) In California...a motorcyclist is killed EVERY DAY on the freeways (on average). So, is a woman going to let some biker guy slobber on her and possibly populate her womb if he is likely going to die in a bike accident? Maybe...if his life insurance is substantial. Surfers just have to avoid drowning and sharks...which is much easier to avoid than asian women driving minivans.

Now...are Mike and I good examples of California surfers?? Nope. Why? Well, lets see...

1) Neither one of us have ever surfed. So there's that.
2) I've been riding motorcycles longer than you or Iceman. I actually was a member of a "club" during my days in Michigan. I've rode to Hell (MI) and back. I've rode all 4 season, all 12 months. I rode up and down the side of a mountain.
3) I took the Intermediate motorcycle safety class when I was 15. Not the beginner one...I'm talking about the one where you have to bring your own bike.
4) Mike and I live INLAND. I'm 25 miles from the beach, living in the hills. Mr. White is even FURTHER away from the Ocean..about 50 miles. Mike lives as close to the ocean as YOU live to Lake St. Clair or Lake Erie...probably further.
5) Neither myself nor Mike are "cool". Surfers tend to be "cool".
6) Neither of us own surf boards.

The Cliff Notes of the 2nd list is #1 and #6.

[MICHAEL]

Whoa...

Lets just agree on one thing...it's not the ability to "score chicks"...it's the quality of the chicks you score. We both know bikers that have scored hot biker chicks...and very much NOT hot biker chicks. You can't give them equal credit. And I WILL say...surfer dudes do QUITE well at scoring chicks. And WAY better than bikers...and I'll explain why:

1) Surfers get up early in the morning. That means they likely are able to get up early in the morning...and thus could someday (if not already) hold a meaningful JOB. And what do women like even more than kindness, sense of humor, good looks??? Thats right...money.

2) Surfing requires at least SOME athletic ability. Ever see an obese guy surfing? Nope. Me neither. Ever see an obese motorcyle rider? Yup...virtually 80% of them. Of matter of fact...bikers are SO fat (how fat are they!!?) that they make things called "vest extenders" for overweight bikers that bought their leather vests in a time BEFORE they discovered cheese fries...and rather than buy a bigger vest and re-sew all the patches...they just use "vest extenders"...kinda like those seat belt extenders.

3) In California...a motorcyclist is killed EVERY DAY on the freeways (on average). So, is a woman going to let some biker guy slobber on her and possibly populate her womb if he is likely going to die in a bike accident? Maybe...if his life insurance is substantial. Surfers just have to avoid drowning and sharks...which is much easier to avoid than asian women driving minivans.

Now...are Mike and I good examples of California surfers?? Nope. Why? Well, lets see...

1) Neither one of us have ever surfed. So there's that.
2) I've been riding motorcycles longer than you or Iceman. I actually was a member of a "club" during my days in Michigan. I've rode to Hell (MI) and back. I've rode all 4 season, all 12 months. I rode up and down the side of a mountain.
3) I took the Intermediate motorcycle safety class when I was 15. Not the beginner one...I'm talking about the one where you have to bring your own bike.
4) Mike and I live INLAND. I'm 25 miles from the beach, living in the hills. Mr. White is even FURTHER away from the Ocean..about 50 miles. Mike lives as close to the ocean as YOU live to Lake St. Clair or Lake Erie...probably further.
5) Neither myself nor Mike are "cool". Surfers tend to be "cool".
6) Neither of us own surf boards.

The Cliff Notes of the 2nd list is #1 and #6.

YOU have not ,,, been riding bikes longer then ICEGOD!! I had my first one when I was 4 years old! Yes,,, ICEMAN had the gift back then! Been doing riding for over 45 years,,,, HOW old did you say you were,, 40!!! LOL.... How tough are you Aslan,,, I remember in my 40's taking a belly dance on a 1000R ninja, form Kansas city Missouri to San Diego. Yes leaning into me all the way on a crutch-rocket! 1800 miles each way.
That's Biker tough bud!! I have also did a lot of dirt bike riding up and down mountains in Colorado! Huuuuuuu Raaaaa!!! Get's my blood pumping just thinking about those adventures, and ones to COME!

You don't have to be a surfer to be one! Ask the Beach Boy's!! Now that I am a God,,, I do so decree: Mike White, and Aslan to both be from this day forward, Surfer Dudes! Now go buy your own surfer boards!

The answer to your question is really simple... The difference is THE GIFT, Talent to perform a certain task, be it Baseball, Basketball, Football, or even bowling!
You Aslan or Mike White, maybe even me, could practice till the cow's come home, but will never reach their gifted level. That's why we are not all pro's!!

We each have our own levels, and they can be improved to a CERTAIN level, but that's the best you can expect! The GIFTED ones in every sport rise to the top, and for some its harder work then it is for others.

The amaturer average hard working Joe Bowler, will never be great, unless his mojo is working for him/her. Take lessons, practice till the cows come home, but your not going to be a PRO level, unless you have the GIFT.

The Gift is a combination of hundred's or things that are genetic!

Could an Armature bowler have the gift, and make it to the Pro level,,, SURE,,,, (((( IF THE GIFT IS THERE!)))))))

I have seen you bowl Aslan,,, I know you have had God-Zilla-Amounts of coaching,,,,, my advise to you is: TAKE UP SURFING!! LOL .....

OR prove this OLD MAN WRONG, and come to Plattsburg Missouri, and show me that you can beat and old, broken down X Iron Worker that is GIFTED, and has had Two lessons in his life.

I was rolling some big games my first year bowling, and I didn't KNOW a darn thing about bowling, I have posted the 298 that first year, and the 750 series that second year, I can post the pictures of the trophies... HOW DID I DO IT?? HELL IF I KNOW, had nothing to do with coaching, or practice... ((THE GIFT))!

Your gift is,,,,,,,IS,,,,,,,, well,,,,,,, Wow,,,, let me think about it! Later.

Hope this answered your question: What makes a Pro better then MOST armatures

TWO WORDS

THE GIFT

[Mike White]

YOU have not ,,, been riding bikes longer then ICEGOD!! I had my first one when I was 4 years old!

Back when you were 4, those weren't bikes, those were covered wagons.

[Aslan]

YOU have not ,,, been riding bikes longer then ICEGOD!! I had my first one when I was 4 years old!

Thats not true. I got my first dirt bike when I was 9 years old. If you got a dirt bike when you were 4...so what...it had training wheels on it? Come on. I'd say you can't ride a bike and be in diapers...but, well...you ride now and are probably back in diapers....so I guess it's possible....but not at FOUR!! And I can tell you're full of it because you said you were riding a Ninja 1000 in your 40s?? Well...lets see...the only 1000cc Ninja made while you were in your 40s was the 1988 ZX-10....when you were exactly 40. And that doesn't make any sense why a 40-year old buys a Ninja. Ninjas are for new motorcyle riding 20-year olds to crash and then quit motorcycling or buy a real motorcycle.

The amaturer average hard working Joe Bowler, will never be great, unless his mojo is working for him/her. Take lessons, practice till the cows come home, but your not going to be a PRO level, unless you have the GIFT.
OR prove this OLD MAN WRONG,

I look forward to proving you wrong. The trick is getting you to live long enough to witness it.

[vdubtx]

I look forward to proving you wrong. The trick is getting you to live long enough to witness it.

Think you will be talking to yourself about that one for a little while. ICEMAN stated in another thread, the "Closed" one, that he is gone(again) from bowling boards. He got a little huffy that Rob called him and others(me) 7th graders since we have a sense of humor and like to post funny things. Any way, he will probably be back eventually(hopefully).