Aother discussion of Coaching...the non-Gifted side of bowling...

[RobLV1]

What is the "gift" of coaching? It is the ability to "see." It is also having the knowledge to determine the root of a bowler's problem, and not just try to fix the problem itself. I once watched a good bowler who is a wanna-be coach work for weeks trying to teach a bowler how to release the ball properly. He couldn't do it for the simple reason that it was impossible based on the bowler's extremely late timing, which was caused by his footwork. I know the bowler and how frustrated he became by the fact that he had not improved, but had actually gotten worse. Unfortunately, he does not see the value in terms of improvement to actually hire a coach who has paid considerably to gain the knowledge needed to actually help bowlers. He would rather get bad advice for free! Oh well.

Good bowlers can definitely help in terms of making the proper adjustments. In terms of helping improve the physical aspects of your game, you are much better off hiring someone who actually knows what he is doing.

[MICHAEL]

What is the "gift" of coaching? It is the ability to "see." It is also having the knowledge to determine the root of a bowler's problem, and not just try to fix the problem itself. I once watched a good bowler who is a wanna-be coach work for weeks trying to teach a bowler how to release the ball properly. He couldn't do it for the simple reason that it was impossible based on the bowler's extremely late timing, which was caused by his footwork. I know the bowler and how frustrated he became by the fact that he had not improved, but had actually gotten worse. Unfortunately, he does not see the value in terms of improvement to actually hire a coach who has paid considerably to gain the knowledge needed to actually help bowlers. He would rather get bad advice for free! Oh well.

Good bowlers can definitely help in terms of making the proper adjustments. In terms of helping improve the physical aspects of your game, you are much better off hiring someone who actually knows what he is doing.

AMEN brother Rob!! Amen

[Aslan]

Ahhh Iceman. Where art thou? I'm guessing a methadone clinic...but I've been wrong once or twice and that's just a shot in the dark.

I decided to jump back in my Dr. Who time machine and drag up an old coaching thread to talk about two coaching dilemmas I have...unrelated.

1) And this has come up before...but so has 90% of the site content. Now that I'm the high average player on my team...and even on my other team where while two of the guys have good averages...their knowledge of the game is suspect at best...I find that I'm tempted to help or "coach". I avoid this urge...like the plague...because my belief is like golf...you help ONLY if they ask for your help. And from a confidence perspective...I just don't think I'm good enough to really help many bowlers.

BUT...sometimes I just can't control myself. And in the 5 times....that I've tried to help a teammate...only ONCE did the teammate listen and actually do what I told them. And yes, the person struck on the next shot. I don't take it personally...I mean, I'm the same way...sometimes you just don't buy into stuff right away...or it's not something you want to mess with during league play. I get that. But it DOES feel a little insulting...just a little...when you go out of your way to help...and they don't take the advice...and continue to suck. Examples:

Guy "S": He has several bowling balls and knows NOTHING about bowling ball specs. His progression is completely random...I think it's based on color or something. He asked me to put together a progression for him...and I did...and he had no interest in using it. I think he was joking when he asked for it.

Girl "M": Total beginner. So in my wheelhouse in terms of coaching ability. Very simple...she stands too far left (a righty)...and misses right constantly. I simply offer her the advice that she should move right...maybe left foot on center...and just throw over the 3rd arrow. She nods and nods then goes and stands left foot on about 27 and throws it in the right gutter. Ughh!

Guy "JP": His ball wasn't making it back to the pocket and he kept missing right. I told him...just move a board left. Everything looked great...his line was just off a little. He went on and on and on about how he thinks he needs to just flick his wrist more or loft it out more or, etc... He went up...strike! I asked him what he did...he smiled and said he moved a board left. : D! Where "JP" refuses to listen is the spare ball debate. He's a 185-200 average bowler...he usually either strikes or leaves a 7-pin (a lefty)...but he absolutely refuses to get a spare ball...and misses the 7-pin more than I do. I bet not having a spare ball literally costs him over 50 pins a night.

Guy "JA": He left the 4-pin twice in a row...so I suggested he make a 1-1 move left. He told me he had at least 3-4 different things he was thinking of doing...finally it was his turn on that lane again and he changed balls. The guy changes balls every 3 shots...when all he needs to do is learn how to make slight lateral adjustments. But it's like talking to an autistic child...you can't get through to him.

I'm not a coach...but I gotta admit...THAT is frustrating. Rob said he was a teacher before he became big into bowling...so maybe he prepared himself for that...but man, how do you reconcile "helping" vs "pounding ones head against a wall"??

2) Also mentioned in a previous post...I'm nervous about my arsenal change in August/September. My coach knows I'm gonna make a switch and already has some "ideas" on my next arsenal. But...as loyal Aslan followers are well aware...that kinda goes against my plans for the "bowling ball rack of destiny" (formerly the closet of destiny). I have the next 5 balls already purchased and ready to drill. I just have a really bad feeling the coach wants to SELL me some balls....from their pro shop...and is gonna look at my 4 selections and say, "Yuck. Those balls are older and I wouldn't recommend any of them. You'd be better off with X, Y, Z, and W." Well...how much of that is "true" vs a sales pitch? And what if the X, Y, Z, and W don't play much better than my last arsenal? Now the balls I planned to use...are 9 months older...still sitting on the rack.

I dislike confrontations (non-internet)...so even though #2 seems silly...it stresses me out thinking about it. Like two days ago....I have a ball resurfaced, and de-oiled...came out looking great and the guy only charged me $15 total which was a deal. But I specifically said I wanted it brought to 2000 abralon....and he just brought it to 1000. Given the price he charged...I didn't want to make a big deal about it...but why can't people just give you what you ask for? Sometimes I think pro shop operators are like 35% artists....because while 65% of the time they are technical guys answering technical questions and looking at technology. Sometimes when they're drilling balls or working on balls....it's like they add in some "artistic expression".

[Amyers]

First off I miss ice too wish he would come back.

As far as offering advice on the lanes I work mostly with the youth league kids and when they don't listen it's expected at least. I don't know why adults are as hard headed as they are about simple things

I wouldn't worry about the ball thing too much basically if he suggests you switch out one or two out of five I'd do it list them on Facebook racks on bowling can't believe the price crap goes on there for. If he tries to tell you they are all junk you know he's just trying to sell you something not all of those balls are bad some I like some I don't but at least half of them are something you can build around

[Aslan]

That's kinda what I was thinking.

Like, before the pro am there is a ball demo...and I think there's a discount on the balls due to participation in the pro am...and at least one of the balls there I'm somewhat interested in. And if the suggestion is to maybe consider switching out 1-2 of the 4 (the 5th is a spare ball)...I wouldn't be too hard headed about that...if the reason makes sense. I'm just reluctant because I see guys throwing 700 series with old Hammer VIBEs, and Storm Reign of Fires, etc... so the argument that you MUST have the newest ball on the market or you're at a significant disadvantage...I think is horse poo poo.

What I'm looking for out of the coach, concerning my next arsenal is....here are 4 balls....what can I do to MAXIMIZE what I get out of these 4 balls? What can we do with drilling...maybe surfacing...so that I have 4 distinct options based on what I see on the lanes. If the coach can't look at the 4 balls I have...and make them work...given my low skill level...then I'd question their motive(s). That being said...if they say, "well...the Dark Encounter is a good 1st ball, the Loaded Revolver a good replacement for the Slingshot, and the Asylum a good in between ball....BUT....I don't like the Lethal Revolver as a 2nd or even 3rd ball because it's too close to the Dark Encounter and Asylum...you're not going to see much difference. But...if you were to replace that with (insert another 15lb ball I have....Brunswick Aura Mystic, Brunswick Fortera Exile, 900 Global The Nuts); that might be a better and more complete arsenal...OR...maybe add (insert new ball) instead....I'd strongly consider that advice.

One ball I'm looking forward to trying tonight is the N'Sane Antics. I was really impressed with the ball motion when I watched Missy Parkin throw that at the WSOB. And the color is kinda unique/cool. It would definitely be a ball I'd consider picking up....but I don't have a good spot (in an arsenal) for that particular ball. And since I'm going from 16lbs to 15lbs...just to try it out....I'm trying NOT to buy more balls because I may fall in love with 15lbs and sell my 16lb balls...or I may hate it and sell my 15lb balls. I don't want to get the NSane Antics at 16lb only to find out I really do much better at 15lbs and now I gotta sell it. But I don't know where it would fit in the 15lb Dark Encounter, Lethal Revolver, Asylum, Loaded Revolver progression. If I had to guess, given it's strength and solid cover...I'd say it would replace the Dark Encounter as my first ball...but damn...I've had that Dark Encounter for almost 2 years and have been anxious to use it...I hate to box it back up when I really don't think I'm gonna see much difference between the Dark Encounter and N'Sane Antics.

Specs:
Dark Encounter: solid cover, RG=2.50. Diff. = 0.052, 2000 abralon finish, assymetric core
N'Sane Antics: solid cover, RG= 2.50, Diff. = 0.042, 4000 abralon polished, asymmetric core

The main differences are a much different core with a lowered differential and more advanced coverstock material....the N'Sane Antics should be more of a skid/flip type ball. "Should" be. But...I question that given the low RG.

Not sure what all balls will be at the demo...I know Columbia and I'm pretty sure Hammer...but not sure what else. I've never done one...so it'll be a new experience. I'm kinda interested to see what will happen when I put a ball manufactured post-2013 in my hands. I may prove myself wrong (and further disappoint myself concerning technology and the game of bowling) and find that the new ball technology is JUST what I need to get that ball to turn the corner and create angle. Or I may throw it all over the place because I can't control it. We'll see.

As to being able to recoup really "any" of the money I have invested in my "bowling ball rack of destiny" should I decide to sell them...

I can see people maybe being willing to pay $60 shipped for balls like the Defiant Edge, the Asylum, the Mystic, and the Fortera Exile.

But I can't see anyone paying even $60 for the Dark Encounter, Lethal/Loaded Revolvers, Warning Sign, Track 300A, Reax Pearl, 900G "The Nuts", DV8 Ruckus, Track 714 (I think...7xx something), etc...

Even the Defiant Edge at 16lbs is gonna be a tough sell...but it's a popular brand and the Defiant series was popular...so probably.

[Amyers]

I agree that t doesn't take the newest ball on the lanes to play well it's much more important that the ball match your style and the conditions your playing on. I'm not a fan of the Brunswick revolver line and even less so for what your wanting them to be. In my opinion their is a good reason you can still pick them up for $50 2 years after they were discontinued but to each their own. The biggest problem I see for you is Dark Encounter/The Nuts are the same ball with the Asylum somewhat close then you got the Exile/Aura Mystic the N'Sane Antics goes here too if you purchased it. Personally myself I would go Dark Encounter/Exile/Asylum and sell the rest to get something else I liked maybe a Hyroad/Melee Jab type ball.

[Aslan]

I had the idea today that perhaps I could get specs from the coach…or even what ball progression/arsenal I should get…and I could get the specs from those balls and see if I have anything that matches. If I do, then I use what I have. If I don't, I get something they recommend.

I just don't see it working because…lets take your example…lets say the recommendation is:

Dark Encounter, Exile, Asylum, HyRoad

Okay, thats a Dark Encounter (RG = 2.50, Solid), an Exile (RG = 2.534, Pearl), an Asylum (RG = 2.50, Hybrid), and a Hy Road (RG = 2.57, Hybrid).

My proposed line-up is the DE (above), Le. Revolver (RG= 2.536, Solid), Asylum (above), and Lo. Revolver (RG = 2.547, Pearl)

As you can see by that comparison…using just the two specs…your recommendation would be the same as mine for two balls but different for two. And for the two that are different…and here's where I think the problem might be with the coach as well…

…the Lo. Revolver and Hy Road are the SAME ball. The Hy Road has a slightly higher RG and lower differential…so it'll go a little longer than the lo. revolver…with hypothetically less snap. And maybe you're right that the Loaded Revolver is just a little too close to the Asylum.

As for the #2 ball…you have two balls with virtually identical RGs and differentials. The main difference is one is a solid and one is a pearl. But again…maybe you're right in that the Exile will hypothetically be less like the D.E. than will the Le. Revolver.

I tried a Track Hx16 at the ball demo and I'm not opposed to getting it…i just think it would be too close to the D.E….seems like the RG is too low to be a good ball down option.

I don't know. My philosophy right now is…I don't want a ball that will HELP me nor HURT me. I don't want a ball that makes me better than I am and stunts my improvement…but I also don't want a ball or arsenal that is creating bad habits or useless in how it's put together.

[Amyers]

…the Lo. Revolver and Hy Road are the SAME ball. The Hy Road has a slightly higher RG and lower differential…so it'll go a little longer than the lo. revolver…with hypothetically less snap. And maybe you're right that the Loaded Revolver is just a little too close to the Asylum.

Unfortunately the fact that is missing here is the Loaded Revolver and the Hyroad are no where on the same planet as a ball. You're just looking at core numbers and not taking cover into account. Not to mention the Hyroad has been a top selling ball for years the Loaded Revolver was a ball that proshops are drilling up and putting out as house balls because they can't get rid of them. I've seen both these balls in action there is no comparison.

As for the #2 ball…you have two balls with virtually identical RGs and differentials. The main difference is one is a solid and one is a pearl. But again…maybe you're right in that the Exile will hypothetically be less like the D.E. than will the Le. Revolver.

You're right about the core numbers being similar the main difference is surface and cover. If I was buying a whole new arsenal they wouldn't be my first choice to put together but trying to offer the most bang for what you've got. The Dark Encounter is a solid at 2k the Exile is a pearl with a polished finish. There is quite a bit of difference between the two and from what I've seen of the Exile it really likes to get deep so you should see a difference. I would probably go with a control drilling on the dark encounter and a long and strong on the exile that should help separate them even more.

My idea is start with your Dark Encounter on fresh after the lanes start to open up you can play a little deeper with the exile or ball down to the Asylum (which you will love). The hyroad is for more transitioned lanes doesn't even really have to be that ball you could go with many others just know that's a good one. I don't like to talk bad about any ball but the revolver series from Brunswick has been a flop. Like I said earlier you can still find online sellers trying to get rid of them for $50 2 years after they were discontinued and I can go to a center around here without finding pretty much brand new looking ones sitting out as house balls. You may love it everyone is different I've only known one guy who threw and he though it was crap and ditched it quick. I just know I don't like to see balls laying around like that if they were good even somebody would pick them up.

I'm really not sure how much more aggressive the Dark Encounter is than the Asylum. I've never seen the Dark Encounter I'm guessing it's a Higher end of the line ball since it asymmetric but that is simply a guess on my part. You could also consider adding some surface to the Asylum and making that you most aggressive ball out of the bag. The Asylum at 2k will handle just about anything you're likely to run into. I've used mine on some pretty heavy stuff and been happy with it at the lower grit very flexible ball plays great anywhere between 2k and 4k. Could possibly free you up to add something with a lower RG but I don't really see as you have any low rg stuff right now.