My team hates when we have to pre or post bowl. I know it has to happen at some point in a 36 week stretch as that's how life is. But we do so much better in the heat of battle ha ha.
Depending on how many people are required for a legal lineup some interesting problems could occur.Originally Posted by dnhoffman
Lets say in a trio league, 1 person is considered a legal lineup.
On Wednesday you find you can't make it for your Thursday league.
You don't have time to contact your team mates so you go ahead and pre bowl on your own on Wednesday.
When Thursday comes along your other two teammates show up to bowl the regular time, but they would be denied since your "team" has already bowled.
It's not fair to void your scores, and it's not really fair to deny your team mates, but the rules are the rules.
Hopefully your league rules specifically allow for individual pre-bowl scores to be blended with regular scheduled bowling.
Last edited by Mike White; 11-09-2014 at 02:12 PM.
My team hates when we have to pre or post bowl. I know it has to happen at some point in a 36 week stretch as that's how life is. But we do so much better in the heat of battle ha ha.
Just because 1 person is considered a legal lineup, doesn't automatically mean if one person pre-bowls that they have pre-bowled for the whole team.
If the league didn't allow individual pre-bowling, the scores of the individual that pre-bowled would just be tossed. The two that showed up would be allowed to bowled and use a blind for the missing bowler.
Right handed Stroker, high track ,about 13 degree axis tilt. PAP is located 5 9/16” over 1 3/4” up.Speed ave. about 14 mph at the pins. Medium rev’s.High Game 300, High series 798
"Talent without training is nothing." Luke Skywalker
The league's board of directors can vote to void the pre bowled scores, but the default rule would deny the two that showed up at the scheduled time.
Take the example of 2 people pre bowl on a 4 person team. 2 makes a legal lineup. The 2 that show up at the regular time are screwed.
If you can't pre bowl as an individual, then 1 out of 3 has to be considered bowling as the team, just as 2 out of 4 would be bowling as the team.
I've only make-up bowled once and it didn't go well. It was a league that originally said they weren't bowling on Halloween and then did…and many of the teams didn't realize and didn't show. So the following week, we arranged to make-up bowl after our regular match. Well, we were mentally and physically exhausted so it didn't go well at all.
Interesting,,, is he a pretty good bowler? Looks like he played for several teams including the royals. I can't say I remember the name.....
Don't walk on Thin Ice!
UNLESS league rules state otherwise,,, I see a lot of individual pre bowling around here! I guess league rules supersede USBC rules!
Don't walk on Thin Ice!
If a league has no individual unopposed pre-bowling , one person out of a team of 3 coming in and pre-bowling is not going to considered pre-bowling for the whole team. That is individual pre-bowling, it's not going to be considered a team pre-bowl for it to be a individual or team pre-bowl to begin with, you would have to get permission from the league, you just can't walk in and pre-bowl.(111d/6)
Now if the 3 player team was granted permission to pre-bowled and only 1 showed up for the pre-bowl, because 2 found out later they could bowl on the scheduled night and didn't come to the pre-bowl. Then the 2 that show up on the regular night might be screwed, that would have to be ran past the USBC rule dept. to be sure.
To see if they exhausted their eligibility for that league session even though they didn't actually bowl.
As for the 2 out of 4, it would depend on the situation,
Assuming the league rules allowed only team pre/post bowling and no individual pre/post bowling.
If the team was granted permission and all 4 pre-bowled and then 2 found out later they could bowl on the scheduled night and showed up. They can't drop their Pre-bowled scores and bowl because they exhausted their eligibility for that league session by pre-bowling. So in a manner of speaking they are screwed there.
Now if the team was granted permission to pre-bowled and only two showed up for the pre-bowl, because 2 found out later they could bowl on the scheduled night and didn't come to the pre-bowl. Then the 2 that show up on the regular night might be screwed, that would have to be ran past the USBC rule dept. to be sure.
To see if they exhausted their eligibility for that league session even though they didn't actually bowl and if they are allowed to bowl see if the 2 that did pre-bowled scores count
Now if only 2 players wanted to pre-bowl and they are just asking for themselves, that' s individual pre-bowling and that's not allowed by the rules so they can't pre-bowl.
And they can't just walk in and say we going to pre-bowl they have to have permission from the league first.
Right handed Stroker, high track ,about 13 degree axis tilt. PAP is located 5 9/16” over 1 3/4” up.Speed ave. about 14 mph at the pins. Medium rev’s.High Game 300, High series 798
"Talent without training is nothing." Luke Skywalker
There is conflict between 111b, and 111d.
111b. Reason
A league cannot adopt a rule that would have the effect of not permitting any pre-bowling/ postponements. The league must grant a pre-bowl/postponement when the team is unable to field a legal lineup for the following reasons:
1. Some of its bowlers are participating in the USBC Championships, state or local association championship tournaments or attending an annual meeting.
2. There is sufficient cause.
3. An emergency situation.
The "no individual unopposed pre-bowling" rule means you can take one bowlers pre bowl score, and combine that with the rest of the team's scores from the regularly scheduled day.
If one person is considered a legal lineup, and pre-bowls, the team would use his score, and the absent scores from the other bowlers.
"no individual unopposed pre-bowling" Does not mean that. It means one person can't pre-bowl. It's also doesn't conflict with 111b because it's just limiting the types of pre/post bowling. Not blocking all pre/post bowling.The "no individual unopposed pre-bowling" rule means you can take one bowlers pre bowl score, and combine that with the rest of the team's scores from the regularly scheduled day.
Now If a league has a rule that "Allows individual unopposed pre-bowling" then you can take one bowlers pre bowl score, and combine that with the rest of the team's scores from the regularly scheduled day.
Now about the situation you described:
I asked the USBC rules department and they said if he followed proper procedures for Pre-bowling (Getting permission etc).If one person is considered a legal lineup, and pre-bowls, the team would use his score, and the absent scores from the other bowlers.
Then yes the games bowled by the individual who prebowled and two absentee scores would be used to determine wins and losses. Since one is a legal lineup and the league does not allow for individual prebowling, once the one individual prebowled, he did so as a team and those are the scores that are to be used for wins and losses.
But if he didn't follow procedures (Which he didn't in your example below), then the league could null and void his games because he did not follow proper procedures and then allow the other two player’s scores to count.
So your right to a extent.
MW:
"Lets say in a trio league, 1 person is considered a legal lineup.
On Wednesday you find you can't make it for your Thursday league.
You don't have time to contact your team mates so you go ahead and pre bowl on your own on Wednesday.
When Thursday comes along your other two teammates show up to bowl the regular time, but they would be denied since your "team" has already bowled."
Last edited by bowl1820; 11-10-2014 at 10:41 AM.
Right handed Stroker, high track ,about 13 degree axis tilt. PAP is located 5 9/16” over 1 3/4” up.Speed ave. about 14 mph at the pins. Medium rev’s.High Game 300, High series 798
"Talent without training is nothing." Luke Skywalker
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