christmas came early

[Amyers]

Example:
Lets say I watch both you and MWhite throw the Bullet Train before I make a decision to get it. I realize it's impossible when a ball is no longer in production…so you're highly unlikely to see anyone else throw it…but lets just pretend for the sake of the example:

You throw it…high loft. MWhite throws it with much less loft. Both of you have a great deal of axis rotation. Both of you have more revs than I do…Mike much more so.

How do I take into account how a ball will work for me…when I already know the ball will hook the lane when Mike throws it and I know it will hook early when you throw it? I have a teammate that throws HIGH speed. He just bought an Optimus. The Optimus is probably one of the most "skid/flip" balls out there. So, did it "skid/flip"? Nope. Why? Because he has average RPMs and throws the ball too fast. BUT…if I just watched HIM…I'd think the Optimus was a very straight ball. Meanwhile, in my sport shot league…two ladies throw the Optimus…and with their ball speed, it hooks quite a bit. Not a lot of "snap" or "flip". What to do, what to do???

As I stated Aslan it's about finding people with similar style to you. Do you bowl anything like me or Mwhite? No. I would never suggest anyone use me as a benchmark and I would never teach anyone my release it's to different than what most people use but If I can find people who have similar revs ball speed and axis rotation than I do in my little neck of the woods with 3 alleys the largest of which has 30 lanes you can't find anybody with similar stats to you in So. Cal. Get real.

As far as being bargain basement poo I think you are taking what I said the wrong way it's not about the quality of the balls it's about how your treating them and thinking about them. Do I believe there is a huge difference between the average ball now and the average ball 2 years ago no but I do believe that every year or two there are 1 or 2 balls that are just better than the rest even that is not the point. If you already have a balls next two replacements purchased and a plan for when you are getting rid of it are you developing a belief in that ball and your ability to throw that ball? I don't really think so.

Beyond some just bad ideas i.e. loaded revolver as a skid flip ball or bullet train weaker than your others its about how you see your bowling balls and develop a belief in your ability with them.

As far as the weight goes maybe if you are truly top notch you can tell a difference in carry between weight but for me when I throw a ball well I get strikes when I don't I don't. I've used 16 and 15 I have more ball speed and revs with the 15 maybe a little harder hit with the 16 it balances. The difference is below my threshold to detect with my current ability at least.

[MICHAEL]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7jyZl6pGQs
settled here is a bird's eye view of each

[Perrin]

For me the switch from 16 to 15 made 2 differences

1. I could throw more games without having shoulder pain the next day
2. more deflection. with 16 lb equipment I very very commonly left 9 pins and 4-9 splits on what looked like good balls. I know 'obviously I wasn't lined up right' if I was leaving them but that's not my point. With 15 lb equipment I get more deflection so it helps me to have more carry on my preffered line.

every comparison of 14-15-16 lb equipment is completely dependant on the person throwing it. and would likely vary from ball to ball let alone drilling to drilling

[Aslan]

As I stated Aslan it's about finding people with similar style to you. Do you bowl anything like me or Mwhite? No. I would never suggest anyone use me as a benchmark and I would never teach anyone my release it's to different than what most people use but If I can find people who have similar revs ball speed and axis rotation than I do in my little neck of the woods with 3 alleys the largest of which has 30 lanes you can't find anybody with similar stats to you in So. Cal. Get real.

So before buying a ball I'm supposed to go on a Scavenger/stalker search for a person who bowls like me and just happens to be throwing the same ball I'm looking at throwing??? I don't care if I bowl in Reno and there are 200 teams in the league...the odds of finding more than 5 bowlers who bowl like me is small...and the odds that they just happen to be throwing a ball released 3 years ago???! You're talking a 1 in 3 million shot.

So should I buy a Storm Crux? I've not seen ONE person throwing it. What about an Exile? Not ONE person. How bout a Columbia Smackdown or Crazy Antics or Eruption Pro? Nope...still not one person. DV8 Thug...ditto...not ONE person. Motiv...nope...only saw three guys throwing Motiv and two were throwing the arctic snipers and one the Venom.

When I bowl...regular league...yes, there are TONS of people...almost 30 5-man teams. But usually the balls I see are balls from 5-9 years ago. I might see some VIVIDs, Some SYNCs, a BYTE here or there. But mostly it's some pretty old stuff. I saw a virtual gravity Thursday...an Optimus...a Fire Road or something like that. Just not a lot of new stuff.

A BETTER bet is to talk to the pro shop guy...but the problem there is, they tend to be biased. They might not like Brunswick...or maybe they have a promotion with Track and get a big bonus for selling those items. Hard to say.

But yeah...a ball is a ball. A good bowler can roll 170+ with a house ball. And a bad bowler can't break 210 if you give them a beach ball.

But how many bowlers did you watch before you bought the Euphoria? Couldn't have been that many since I've seen maybe 2 Seismic balls thrown EVER in all the leagues and houses I've went to.

[rv driver]

Seems to me that the pros throw what companies pay them to throw. Pros are pros because they could likely throw over 210 with a 1968 Ebonite.
The rest of us throw what seems "pretty" or "cool." For bowlers who aren't all that consistent (and that's a lot of bowlers), I don't think they'd be able to really tell the difference between two balls of similar specs, nor could they finesse the differences out of the two. Bowlers who are good throw what feels good to them, and what gives them what they expect to "see." Which is probably why Aslan sees mostly older stuff. people throw what's tried-and-true. Heck, I'd be willing to bet that many new ball models are bought by people (like me) who aren't all that good, and then get good with that particular ball, through practice and consistent use -- and stick with it. Buying new models is probably fairly useless until one learns about ball physics and components, thoroughly learns to control one's own style, and knows the lanes inside and out, and by throwing all that info into the hopper, decides whether that new model is going to highlight that one aspect or two of one's game that one wants to highlight or improve, and one has decided that the improvement is worth the $200 spent on the new ball.

[Aslan]

Bowlers who are good throw what feels good to them, and what gives them what they expect to "see."

Most bowler buy a ball based on how it smells and what color it is. If it has a cool name and a big spider or hammer on it...even better.

Nobody cares nor knows that the RG and diff and core of a given ball are. They just see it, and go..."OOoooo...it's purple! And it smells like GRAPES!!" then they give it to the pro shop guy and say, "drill it to go long and snap." And then that story repeats itself over, and over, and over, and over.

Like most people in the world...bowlers are idiots.

[rv driver]

Most bowler buy a ball based on how it smells and what color it is. If it has a cool name and a big spider or hammer on it...even better.

Nobody cares nor knows that the RG and diff and core of a given ball are. They just see it, and go..."OOoooo...it's purple! And it smells like GRAPES!!" then they give it to the pro shop guy and say, "drill it to go long and snap." And then that story repeats itself over, and over, and over, and over.

Like most people in the world...bowlers are idiots.

Or then there's me, who overanalyzes the ever-loving crap out of the ball, completely ignoring the fact that, at this point in my game, RG and differential don't make an appreciable difference. I worried the heck out of the fine distinctions between the Misfit, the Ascent and the Freeze, when they were all going to perform for me exactly the same, and it really did all come down to color. Although, to pat myself on the back, I did finally go with the decision based on customer service (which, in all likelihood, wouldn't have amounted to that much difference, anyway...)

[fortheloveofbowling]

Most bowler buy a ball based on how it smells and what color it is. If it has a cool name and a big spider or hammer on it...even better.

Nobody cares nor knows that the RG and diff and core of a given ball are. They just see it, and go..."OOoooo...it's purple! And it smells like GRAPES!!" then they give it to the pro shop guy and say, "drill it to go long and snap." And then that story repeats itself over, and over, and over, and over.

Like most people in the world...bowlers are idiots.

I thought drilling did not matter. Of course you realize the numbers on a ball are before drilling and change depending on the layout.

[Aslan]

I thought drilling did not matter. Of course you realize the numbers on a ball are before drilling and change depending on the layout.

Don't confuse RVDriver. His post was spot on.

And yes…I realize once a ball is drilled it physically becomes "asymmetric" by definition. But unless you're a squid, that amount of asymmetric strictly from the standard drilling of a symmetric ball is even more insignificant than playing with pin up/pin down in an asymmetric ball…

…ughhh…this is tiring.

Will somebody just make a video that disproves my video so I can admit I'm 100% wrong and getting 5 of the same balls and drilling each slightly different is the way to go?

[Amyers]

Ok Aslan I'm not saying you are going to find people who bowl exactly like you but your telling me that at all the different centers you bowl at you can't find bowlers who bowl similar enough to you to gage a ball reaction? I can find 5 on each league I bowl in and I bowl in a twelve lane house. Do they bowl exactly the same as I do no but they are within a 1- 1.5 mph and have a similar about of revs speed adjusted to me. I don't expect the ball to roll exactly the same but it does give me an idea of the strength and the ball motion to expect.

Maybe my house is weird and bowling balls are cheaper here than they are out your way but most of the people I bowl with throw newer equipment and have pretty large arsenals even the old guys have three balls usually some of them have ten and twenty but my leagues are pretty serious leagues most of the men I bowl with bowl at least three leagues.

Storm Crux We have three people throwing it right now. The Exile I would have to go to Town and Country Lanes the proshop owner there is a Brunswick Staffer he throws one seen him use it some but I will give you he's not a good match more of a power player. Smackdown is a No. I know two guys who throw the Crazy Antics and one man and one woman throwing the Eruption Pro. The Thug is pretty new and we don't see a whole lot of DV8 so no on that one. Motiv we have one guy throwing Octane, 3 throwing Primal Rages, 2 Sigma Stings, 1 Jackal, 2 Ascents and a couple of different ones of the Venom Line. Motiv and Seismic are the number three brands about tied on my home alley Storm and Roto being 1 and 2. Even with that if I want Hammer I can go over on league night at Venture lanes here they are a big Hammer shop If I want to see Brunswick/DV8/ and a little radical I can go to Town and Country.

I do see some older stuff mostly from the old guys all though even they seem to have upgraded this year I mean I can fins a couple of guys throwing old faball hammers if I want to but most of them throwing newer stuff.

My Euphoria belonged to the proshop owner before I bought it off of him. So I watched him bowl with it for about 6 months before I bough it off of him. It is the only Euphoria we have but I think that's because its older and that was the first seismic ball that came in to our lanes. I think one of the staffers came I and gave it to him for free to get his foot in the door. He comes in and does a demo once a year but we have 3 euphoric's, 1 desperado TSE, 2 Venator's, and 2 Equalizers from Seismic. Heck one guy already has one of the new Photon's on order.