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Thread: General Annoyances with High Rev ballers...a mini rant/observation

  1. #1
    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    Post General Annoyances with High Rev ballers...a mini rant/observation

    So I was at a tournament yesterday...and there were two fellas in my first squad that were very high rev guys. Not "thumbless"...but pretty close to that style.

    And...PER USUAL...when they were 'on'...they were pretty darn good. But they couldn't pick up spares and when they were 'off'...they were VERY off.

    So during squad 1, I started getting annoyed...not with them...but with myself. Becuase IF straighter is greater...then a guy like me should easily beat these guys...especially given they were horrible spare shooters. BUT...in Squad 1 my spare shooting was 'off'. And a non-power stroker straighter player cannot AFFORD to have his/her spare shooting be 'off'. So, what should have been advantage...leading to a victory over these loud, obnoxious high rev dopes turned out to be me being uncompetitive.

    So.."why" don't I like high rev players?

    Well, the easy/psyche answer would be that I'm jealous/mad because I can't do that. That makes sense from a psychological standpoint.

    But the other reasons I thought about was...thats not how bowling is SUPPOSED TO BE. I watch old black and white video of the Don Carters and the Carmen Salvinos and the Mike Limongellos....and you don't see that. That kinda "big hook" game doesn't even emerge on the radar until Mark Roth started spinning the **** out of the ball in the 70s. And even Roth...it wasn't THAT dramatic (most likely due to the balls being FAR weaker).

    This new 'age' in bowling...it's just a free for all. Everyone does their own thing and there's no "right" way. You go back-up ballers and 2-handers and thumbless and crankers and tweeners and strokers and spinners...it's just MADNESS! How do you teach a bowler the RIGHT way to bowl when there is no RIGHT way to bowl??

    Oh well. The point is...I can't be all self righteous about how the stroker/straighter style is best...until I'm rock solid on spare shooting and rock solid with my accuracy and repeatability. Until then, I just have to accept that the cranker/power style is going to have an advantage.
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    Bowling Guru Amyers's Avatar
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    I know just as many cranker/high rev bowlers who are good spare shooters than I do straight low rev bowlers. Just because you blow it up in your mind doesn't make it fact. I will agree with you on most thumbless and some two handers although I've been bowling with a two hander lately who is changing my mind on their ability. Their have always been bowlers with different styles modern equipment just makes those alternate styles more noticeable.
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  3. #3

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    It's a tradeoff, they've traded the ability for more carry and show; for accuracy and less spares. The best combo will obviously be if they ever learn to put the whole game together.

    As for what bowling is supposed to be, can't really agree... games and sports always evolve. Why wouldn't you give yourself more of an advantage by using the best technique available? It's like when basketball added the 3-point line. All of a sudden, shooters came in and the long range shot entered. When the first would-be soccer players joined the NFL and field goals became further and more accurate, instead of toeing the ball... I don't think you'd find anyone saying those were "bad" things. Graphite golf clubs instead of wood, etc... the list goes on and on. Basketball was "supposed" to be played with peach baskets, soccer balls, and there wasn't even dribbling, only passing to move!

    People will always improve upon things and use what gives the best outcome. Straight and super accurate was the way to go back in the 40s and 50s, but it's not the 40s anymore. Someday you might be a cranker or a power stroker and get that carry. Took me 8 years to get higher revs, and this is the first year actually throwing it (and there've been some growing pains). Would I go back to my previous style? Nope!

    And, when you start getting the carry, along with all the spare work you put in - you're gonna see yourself start killing those guys in games.

    All just my unsolicited opinion, of course

  4. #4

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    Let's not make this any more complicated than it is. The goal is to knock down as many pins as possible, as consistently as possible. How it's done is irrelevant, as long as it gets done.

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    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amyers View Post
    I know just as many cranker/high rev bowlers who are good spare shooters than I do straight low rev bowlers. Just because you blow it up in your mind doesn't make it fact. I will agree with you on most thumbless and some two handers although I've been bowling with a two hander lately who is changing my mind on their ability. Their have always been bowlers with different styles modern equipment just makes those alternate styles more noticeable.
    Hey...there are lots of thumbless and 2-handers and crankers that'll prove me wrong...I agree.

    I was just thinking outloud about the particular example I saw. These guys were chucking that thing half way down the lane...lofting the gutters...and then when they left something...they threw the same ball. One guy would throw it "back-up style" to pick up spares. And they weren't very good at it! I'd like to think a plastic ball would solve their problem...but I'm not sure. I think they just really LIKE throwing that big curve...and when they leave something...it's almost an annoyance to have to throw differently.

    But yes...I was MORE ANNOYED with me missing two single-pin spares in game 1 than I was about their high rev activities. Granted, those were the only 2 single-pin spares I missed out of 9 games...but still. To keep up with those guys striking left and right...I can't even afford to miss one makeable spare.

    And I couldn't figure it out. I saw the scoring slips...these guys have 200+ averages. How can they maintain that average with spare shooting that looked to be about 40%? All I could think was;

    1) If you strike enough...a missed spare here and there doesn't hurt you.
    2) These guys were from the same house...maybe their game is perfect for that house and they don't leave as many spares.

    I don't know. The cool thing was watching the mental game. When high average bowlers start bowling badly...it's not pretty.

    I bowled against one guy on the second Squad...210+ average...and this guy couldn't buy a break. Split after split after split. Solid hits leaving 8-pins or the 8-10. I think he bowled a 498 or something...and was PISSED.

    Another guy, a kid, he and I were chatting between squads...then were on the same squad for Squad 3...and he also was just having a rough evening...and that was the squad I was hammering the competition (won 2 of the 3 sidepots and the men's bracket). Well, MWhite knew the kid and I guess the kid thought I was a ringer or sandbagger or something!! Thats a HUGE compliment!! I didn't even BELONG in Division A...I got bumped up because of the stupid 149 average in a sport league...yet this kid thought I was sandbagging?? So what, I belong in the 181+ Classic division??

    I'm sure MWhite set him straight. I mean, ME...a sandbagger? Just show the kid the trouncing I took in Vegas at the AVI. Have him come watch me and my lofty 161 average on Tuesdays. Sanbagger/Ringer INDEED!!!
    In Bag: (: .) 900 Global Zen Master; (: .) Brunswick Perfect Mindset; (: .) Brunswick Endeavor; (: .) Radical Outer Limits Pearl; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 192; Lifetime Average = 172;
    Ball Speed: 14.5mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 187

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  6. #6
    High Roller rv driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aslan View Post
    So I was at a tournament yesterday...and there were two fellas in my first squad that were very high rev guys. Not "thumbless"...but pretty close to that style.

    And...PER USUAL...when they were 'on'...they were pretty darn good. But they couldn't pick up spares and when they were 'off'...they were VERY off.

    So during squad 1, I started getting annoyed...not with them...but with myself. Becuase IF straighter is greater...then a guy like me should easily beat these guys...especially given they were horrible spare shooters. BUT...in Squad 1 my spare shooting was 'off'. And a non-power stroker straighter player cannot AFFORD to have his/her spare shooting be 'off'. So, what should have been advantage...leading to a victory over these loud, obnoxious high rev dopes turned out to be me being uncompetitive.

    So.."why" don't I like high rev players?

    Well, the easy/psyche answer would be that I'm jealous/mad because I can't do that. That makes sense from a psychological standpoint.

    But the other reasons I thought about was...thats not how bowling is SUPPOSED TO BE. I watch old black and white video of the Don Carters and the Carmen Salvinos and the Mike Limongellos....and you don't see that. That kinda "big hook" game doesn't even emerge on the radar until Mark Roth started spinning the **** out of the ball in the 70s. And even Roth...it wasn't THAT dramatic (most likely due to the balls being FAR weaker).

    This new 'age' in bowling...it's just a free for all. Everyone does their own thing and there's no "right" way. You go back-up ballers and 2-handers and thumbless and crankers and tweeners and strokers and spinners...it's just MADNESS! How do you teach a bowler the RIGHT way to bowl when there is no RIGHT way to bowl??

    Oh well. The point is...I can't be all self righteous about how the stroker/straighter style is best...until I'm rock solid on spare shooting and rock solid with my accuracy and repeatability. Until then, I just have to accept that the cranker/power style is going to have an advantage.
    Tom Daugherty threw a 100 in a televised PBA match in 2011. Cranked the holy crap outta the ball and just couldn't knock the pins down. If he'd thrown down and in for accuracy -- changed his game plan -- he might have been able to score higher. he just kept doing the same thing, hoping for a better outcome. Maybe what's needed is a more diverse tool box...

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    Quote Originally Posted by rv driver View Post
    Tom Daugherty threw a 100 in a televised PBA match in 2011. Cranked the holy crap outta the ball and just couldn't knock the pins down. If he'd thrown down and in for accuracy -- changed his game plan -- he might have been able to score higher. he just kept doing the same thing, hoping for a better outcome. Maybe what's needed is a more diverse tool box...
    Also consider cranking the holy crap out of the ball is what got him into the finals to begin with.

    After a few frames of trouble, he was so far behind (Mika ended up with a 299 game) that he was just trying to save face, yet the troubles persisted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aslan View Post
    Hey...there are lots of thumbless and 2-handers and crankers that'll prove me wrong...I agree.

    I was just thinking outloud about the particular example I saw. These guys were chucking that thing half way down the lane...lofting the gutters...and then when they left something...they threw the same ball. One guy would throw it "back-up style" to pick up spares. And they weren't very good at it! I'd like to think a plastic ball would solve their problem...but I'm not sure. I think they just really LIKE throwing that big curve...and when they leave something...it's almost an annoyance to have to throw differently.

    But yes...I was MORE ANNOYED with me missing two single-pin spares in game 1 than I was about their high rev activities. Granted, those were the only 2 single-pin spares I missed out of 9 games...but still. To keep up with those guys striking left and right...I can't even afford to miss one makeable spare.

    And I couldn't figure it out. I saw the scoring slips...these guys have 200+ averages. How can they maintain that average with spare shooting that looked to be about 40%? All I could think was;

    1) If you strike enough...a missed spare here and there doesn't hurt you.
    2) These guys were from the same house...maybe their game is perfect for that house and they don't leave as many spares.

    I don't know. The cool thing was watching the mental game. When high average bowlers start bowling badly...it's not pretty.

    I bowled against one guy on the second Squad...210+ average...and this guy couldn't buy a break. Split after split after split. Solid hits leaving 8-pins or the 8-10. I think he bowled a 498 or something...and was PISSED.

    Another guy, a kid, he and I were chatting between squads...then were on the same squad for Squad 3...and he also was just having a rough evening...and that was the squad I was hammering the competition (won 2 of the 3 sidepots and the men's bracket). Well, MWhite knew the kid and I guess the kid thought I was a ringer or sandbagger or something!! Thats a HUGE compliment!! I didn't even BELONG in Division A...I got bumped up because of the stupid 149 average in a sport league...yet this kid thought I was sandbagging?? So what, I belong in the 181+ Classic division??

    I'm sure MWhite set him straight. I mean, ME...a sandbagger? Just show the kid the trouncing I took in Vegas at the AVI. Have him come watch me and my lofty 161 average on Tuesdays. Sanbagger/Ringer INDEED!!!
    The guy thought you might be a sandbagger because your average was listed as 140's, and your low game that last squad was 177.

    Speaking of the crankers... Doesn't it make you wonder how they can hit a small target like the 1-3 pocket over and over, yet can't pick up a 4 pin, or 10 pin?

    Well it goes back to the guiding wall of oil. The guide is pointed towards the pocket. There is no help getting to the 4 or 10 pin. Without help, they look pretty weak.

    Actually on a THS, the 10 pin is harder than it used to be for crankers with resin balls because the closer the ball gets to the 10 pin, the hard it is to keep the ball out there.

    Also hitting the pocket HARD has become much easier for crankers because the ball sticks to the lane better, and the oil keeps all that hitting power under control.

    If the oil length, or width changes, what worked for one guy, doesn't work anymore, but now another guy has the "gift".

    If they put a fairly light and flat pattern out, people couldn't use resin balls, so they would have to earn any back end motion, and with the flat pattern, the ball goes where it is thrown, not redirected by the oil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    Let's not make this any more complicated than it is. The goal is to knock down as many pins as possible, as consistently as possible. How it's done is irrelevant, as long as it gets done.
    How it's done has a lot to do with how likely a person is to be able to do it again.

  10. #10
    Pin Crusher Jaescrub's Avatar
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    Why so much hate ha ha ha. I like bowling teams with different style bowlers. I use to wana be a cranker. But I'm not and I know I never will be So I'm starting to like the way I bowl and just roll with it you should too.

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