1st pba telecast sunday 12/14 -- will you be watching?

[RobLV1]

Let me tell you a little about Motiv. Prior to 2006, the company made the cores that went into neighboring Brunswick bowling balls. When Brunswick decided to move their ball production to Mexico, the President of Motiv, Scott Wilbur, decided that in order to keep his workers working, Motiv would begin making their own line of bowling balls. The company really only became viable in terms of their bowling balls around 2009, five short years ago. When you consider the short time that they have been around, Motiv has made monumental strides in the bowling industry. Most of their professional staffers are newcomers to the scene, just like the balls they are throwing. When you consider that in the first two shows from the WSOB, there were four players among the top eight using Storm/Roto products, three using Motiv products, and only one using an Ebonite-brand product, you would have to say the Motiv has made quite a splash in the bowling world.

[Amyers]

There are two distinct questions here as I see it and I think Aslans mixing the together.

Question one Does Storm/Roto have an advantage buy offering a larger selection of balls? I believe yes but with players of this level I'm not sure it makes much difference. There is overlap between some of storm and roto stuff if you had all of both but I do think their are some shot shapes they have that Motiv doesn't. How much difference does that make though if you can have your choice of 10 different drilling and any surface you can imagine on each my guess would be it evens out
When we purchase a ball we generally have one these guys can get as many as they need to try in different ways at that point I'm not sure you need access to 20 good balls 5 good balls may be all you need at that point.

Question 2 is the motiv equipment too strong for the conditions later in the telecast. I haven't watched it yet been busy with my own bowling but I know quite a few guys throwing motiv stuff and everyone who owns the motiv sigma sting will tell you it's the definition of a benchmark ball. The Ascent Apex is a great lighter condition ball and if you want to open the lanes up the motiv octane works well to swing out on light conditions. So no I don't think thier balls are too strong for the condition.

All in all you should be looking at it as the small little company went up against the big boys with a fraction of the resources and fielded 3 of the top 8 congrats to Motiv

[Aslan]

I respect Motiv and what they've accomplished. Absolutely. And as a former Michigander I'm glad they are doing all of this from their factory in Muskegon, MI. I went to college with a couple guys from Muskegon.

All I'm pointing out is:

1) When Storm/Roto has a line-up of 49 bowling balls for their pros to choose from and Motiv has 15...I think that gives Roto/storm a small advantage in finding a ball with just the right amount of 'whatever' to do what they want it to do.

Now...responding to what Amyers said about drilling and surface...I agree there are other variables...but either those other variables are important and the ball doesn't matter...or the ball is the main thing and those other variables are just "tweaks".

2) The fact of the matter is, we're seen two animal pattern finals and the finish was:

Cheetah:
1) Storm
2) Motiv
3) Storm
4) Storm

Viper:
1) Track
2) Motiv
3) Storm
4) Motiv

Don't get me wrong...like I said...I watched virtually all of the qualifying rounds and the Motiv guys were SO noticeably impressive that I actually started wondering if maybe Motiv balls WERE something technologically superior to what everyone else was throwing. And I'm more of a "balls don't matter that much" kind've guy.

One thing I noticed...and it happened with Dom, Ronnie, and Connor...was they seemed to be dead set on opening up the lane and playing their "A-Game"....to the point that they even were throwing urethane balls for crying out loud. With the success that Anthony Pepe had...and Liz Johnson had...and Mika was having playing straighter outside in...I just can't understand why those guys kept trying to thread a square peg into a round hole.

It was as painful to watch as watching E.J. Tackett (Motiv's star) in the 2013 Lucas Oil Wolf Open when he arguably went through the head in 7 of 10 frames and threw it in the gutter once. I know, I know...it was his first PBA TV event and I'm sure he was nervous...but how can a player at that level go through the head THAT many times in a match and seemingly make no adjustments or ball changes or anything?

The difference between the straighter veterans like Duke, Weber, WRW, Bohn III, Mika, etc... is that they play outside...straighter...but can move in if they have to. It seems like the power players like Dom Barrett, EJ Tackett, Dick Allen, Sean Rash, Belmo, etc... it seems like they simply have no options when their big hook A-game isn't working. They refuse to move right...they either refuse to utilize or have no straight game/release. And they hesitate to even ball down. We've seen pros attempt to loft the gutter for crying out loud rather than just change their game and straighten it out a bit.

[vdubtx]

I respect Motiv and what they've accomplished. Absolutely. And as a former Michigander I'm glad they are doing all of this from their factory in Muskegon, MI. I went to college with a couple guys from Muskegon.

All I'm pointing out is:

1) When Storm/Roto has a line-up of 49 bowling balls for their pros to choose from and Motiv has 15...I think that gives Roto/storm a small advantage in finding a ball with just the right amount of 'whatever' to do what they want it to do.

Have to remember that with both ball lines, there is a lot of crossover in what the balls actually can do on the lanes.

[Amyers]

U

I respect Motiv and what they've accomplished. Absolutely. And as a former Michigander I'm glad they are doing all of this from their factory in Muskegon, MI. I went to college with a couple guys from Muskegon.

All I'm pointing out is:

1) When Storm/Roto has a line-up of 49 bowling balls for their pros to choose from and Motiv has 15...I think that gives Roto/storm a small advantage in finding a ball with just the right amount of 'whatever' to do what they want it to do.

Now...responding to what Amyers said about drilling and surface...I agree there are other variables...but either those other variables are important and the ball doesn't matter...or the ball is the main thing and those other variables are just "tweaks".

2) The fact of the matter is, we're seen two animal pattern finals and the finish was:

Cheetah:
1) Storm
2) Motiv
3) Storm
4) Storm

Viper:
1) Track
2) Motiv
3) Storm
4) Motiv

Don't get me wrong...like I said...I watched virtually all of the qualifying rounds and the Motiv guys were SO noticeably impressive that I actually started wondering if maybe Motiv balls WERE something technologically superior to what everyone else was throwing. And I'm more of a "balls don't matter that much" kind've guy.

One thing I noticed...and it happened with Dom, Ronnie, and Connor...was they seemed to be dead set on opening up the lane and playing their "A-Game"....to the point that they even were throwing urethane balls for crying out loud. With the success that Anthony Pepe had...and Liz Johnson had...and Mika was having playing straighter outside in...I just can't understand why those guys kept trying to thread a square peg into a round hole.

It was as painful to watch as watching E.J. Tackett (Motiv's star) in the 2013 Lucas Oil Wolf Open when he arguably went through the head in 7 of 10 frames and threw it in the gutter once. I know, I know...it was his first PBA TV event and I'm sure he was nervous...but how can a player at that level go through the head THAT many times in a match and seemingly make no adjustments or ball changes or anything?

The difference between the straighter veterans like Duke, Weber, WRW, Bohn III, Mika, etc... is that they play outside...straighter...but can move in if they have to. It seems like the power players like Dom Barrett, EJ Tackett, Dick Allen, Sean Rash, Belmo, etc... it seems like they simply have no options when their big hook A-game isn't working. They refuse to move right...they either refuse to utilize or have no straight game/release. And they hesitate to even ball down. We've seen pros attempt to loft the gutter for crying out loud rather than just change their game and straighten it out a bit.

As far as what I said about the adjusting drillings and surface for the average guy we aren't usually going to buy multiples of the same ball or drill a new one up for this specific pattern these guys can and do. I just don't believe it's as necessary for 49 ball option in PBA competition. Really honestly out of that 49 how many are really that different that you couldn't change the surface and drilling to make it react the same? My guess is about 5 to 10 at best. The rest is marketing fluff. I am a fan of balls and arsenals but if they were all the same color could you tell a hyroad from the hysteria? The rolls look pretty similar. Hyroad solid vs hybrid vs pearl if you put the same surface on all of them? I bet the difference is less than a board if there really is any difference.

As far as EJ and the power guys playing there power game even when it's not the best choice vs the others you mentioned a lot of those guys are older and had more time to develop that outside game. I do believe most power players are less dimensional than some of the others. There is also something to be said for going with what got you there.

[J Anderson]

As much as I like Mika, He really didn't look all that sharp Sunday. Part of it may have been his choice to play a line where he had to be almost perfect to strike.

It just seemed that when Mika was off, he was left with a 6-10 to convert and even got a brooklyn strike one frame. His opponents were punished with big wide splits for every mistake.

[Aslan]

Hyroad solid vs hybrid vs pearl if you put the same surface on all of them? I bet the difference is less than a board if there really is any difference.

I agree with most of your post except that one sentence. A solid coverstock is going to do greatly different things than a Pearl. My Pearl cover balls will not move until they are in the tracers...and when they DO...it's a sharper movement. But if the pattern is long...or there's a lot of carry down....at my rev rate the Pearls are useless. Now...I sanded the Encounter (A) down to 500 abralon...and scuffed it with 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper...and did it make a Pearl into a Solid? Not even CLOSE. My Solid cover Rhythm and Hybrid Bullet Train still break/hook far sooner than the sanded Encounter.

The Encounters have the strongest cores...they are/were pro level balls...but the cover material is HUGE. Sanding the Encounter (A) definitely makes it start to move sooner than the polished Encounter (N)...but we're talking a board of difference overall. And, I'm sure some experts will look at the sanded Encounter (A) and say that by sanding it so much....it's now burned up before it reaches the pins.

As to your arsenal...not knowing much about Seismic equipment...I'd bet in a side by side comparison...before surface changes...the Asylum hooks sooner than the Euphoria...but the Euphoria hooks more aggressively/more angular when it finally does hook. Never thrown either ball (although I've seen a few people throwing Asylums)...but I'd bet that is the reaction sinmply because the Asylum is a hybrid and I believe the Euphoria is a Pearl.

It's also why I'm not so sure what will hook sooner in my next arsenal between the Asylum and the Lethal Revolver. The Asylum is newer, more advanced....with a lower RG...but the Lethal Revolver is a solid coverstock ball with a higher overall hook rating. That will be an interesting comparison. The specs seem to point to the Asylum hooking sooner...but I never underestimate the power of a coverstock.

[RobLV1]

You are going to see a whole lot more difference between balls with different surfaces than you are with balls with different cover materials and the same surface. Gotta to with Amyers on this one.

[Aslan]

You are going to see a whole lot more difference between balls with different surfaces than you are with balls with different cover materials and the same surface. Gotta to with Amyers on this one.

Not according to my data from actual testing. And as I've stated to IceManGod…testing data always trumps opinion/guesswork/heresay/etc…

I had a Pearl Encounter brought down to 500 abralon and sanded with 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper. On video AND being visually evaluated by a pro…the Bullet Train and Rhythm hook sooner…and it's not even close. Thats two balls…mid to upper level versus a pro level ball/core sanded/surfaced about as much as possible…and the lesser balls with the stronger cover stocks won.

[Aslan]

Ooooo….and a 300 game from Russell…WILL Motiv get their first title of the WSOB 2014!!???

And did Rotogrip just pick up JR Raymond once he qualified for TV? I didn't see a logo on his jerseys during qualifying and now he's wearing Rotogrip.

Well, funny how you start rooting for a guy…even when you weren't planning on it…I found myself rooting for Rash…despite not being a big fan….just because he's a Brunswick guy. Now I can't root for anyone though…Russell I've never really liked…and Archer I just don't like the way he bowls not to mention I CANNOT cheer for a guy of that age sporting a Faux Hawk. I mean, seriously?

AND…that Pressler chick is a joke. The PBA can save some much needed resources by having her go back to covering cheerleading events and cat shows.

AND…once again…"Hey kid, do you know who you're bowling against today?" Uhhhh…no….because they don't TELL THEM. Stop asking stupid questions!! Then he sees Tom Hess come waddling out and the look on his face was, "Who the **** is this guy?"

Archer is the perfect example, to me, of the problem with high rev/thumbless style. When he's "on"…that angle is tough to beat. But man…if that shot misses by just a small amount…it leaves some ugly, ugly leaves.