2015 USBC Open Championships!

[vdubtx]

Forgot to mention, that, on our Doubles/Singles squad, the pair next to us had Earon Vollmar on it. If you don't know who he is... http://www.bowl.com/News/NewsDetails...id=23622323398

His team was also on the live stream the day before for the team event. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eeq9VmHHo8g

Saw them bowl a little bit that day, they were on squad prior to us and looked like they struggled quite a bit. Earon only shot 516 on team pattern. His all event score was 1761.

[Aslan]

If your going thinking your going to win money your wasting your time go for the experience and if you win something it's a bonus

I disagree with that mindset.

I used to run 5Ks a lot. And I ran a 10k once, realized my time in a 10k was not competitive. Same thing with a duathalon...I knew I couldn't be competitive unless I bought a faster bike. I never bothered entering a duathalon or 10k again. I figured I'd build up my endurance, lower my times, and then enter a 10k when I was competitive.

Bowling the USBC Open...obviously I'm not going to put if off until I feel I'm a sure shot to win overall events...hell, I'll never do it if I wait that long. But I also think it's silly to do it (unless it's held < 2 hours from you) if you're a 150-180 house bowler. The Open is sport bowling event. It should attract SPORT bowlers...not casual bowlers. Otherwise it'd be completely legal to have beers and order mozzarella sticks and wear tank tops while bowling the event. If your game isn't at a certain minimal level...your only "experience" is that thud sound when you roll a 137 and everyone snickers and chuckles.

I have a goal written down...I can't remember exactly what it is because I currently am missing the paper I wrote it down on...hope to find that as I move apartments...but it simply has a total series score or a league average or something like that...and until I can achieve that...I don't go to the Open. Just hypothetical, it would say something like "193 composite average for one season AND a 725 series." That gives me something to work towards. And a reward for achieving it. I have little goals like that regarding the USBC Open, the ABT, PBA Regional events, etc... Now I just need to find that notepad!! I doubt my 689 series would be enough to meet any of the goals...but I'm at least "sniffing" some of the targets I set.

But no...I've never been much for the "just have fun" mantra...not since grade school. If you're gonna drop $400-$1000...to travel across two states to bowl in a tournament...you should have at least a "shot" at winning it. VDubtx went, and I'd say...although a long shot...he has the ability to say he had a remote chance of catching fire and winning. So more power to him. Of matter of fact, I've been one of the few voices trying to push him a little more...maybe take that next step to some amateur tournaments or PBA regional events. If ya got the skills...go for it. The body isn't going to hold up forever...and none of us are getting younger. Do you really want to be using a walker at age 75 and wishing you could have went back 30 years and maybe challenged yourself a little more? I don't.

If you consider yourself a 162-172 bowler, then why would you consider averaging 171 or so for the rest of the season to be sandbagging?

I consider bowling beneath my ability level to be sandbagging. And in that house...thanks to their recent attempts to make the easiest shot in Orange County...I am averaging 191. I could probably...believeably average like 164 the rest of the way without it seeming blatent...but let me put it to you this way: Last week in Game 1 I started off with 6 spares in a row...and the guy that runs the strike frame asked me why I was sandbagging. I was CLEAN through 6...but in THAT league....and this will seem strange to Mike who has actually bowled in a league with me...but in THAT league...I'm one of the better bowlers. And they know that...so I'm kinda stuck unless I fake an injury or something.

The problem with the USBC tournament is the border between regular, and classified should be much higher than 175/176.

Back when the best bowlers were 200-210, someone 35 pins behind that would be placed in a separate division, now with people averaging 240+, the 176 bowler is 60+ pins behind.

It's 180/181. That actually seems fair to me. I think that's generally the "line" between "good" and "average" bowlers...from what I've seen. What I DISAGREE with...and there's no solution to this that will ever happen realistically...but we need consistent conditions. I go bowl in Irvine and the lanes are toughest in Orange County and I average 155 over 9 games. I then go to Arlington and average 181 over 9 games. I then go to Concourse with their completely random, bowled on conditions and average 169. Then I go to AMF Carter where they've intentionally altered the pattern to make it easier and attract more league bowlers...and I average 191. So what is my true average? The composite is probably the closest...but the USBC doesn't use composite for the Open...it uses and one individual season in the last 3 years...

...moral to the story...if ya want an advantage at the Open...you better not ever bowl in a center that has an easy shot. Find the hardest centers in your area and hope that you do as bad as possible...because if you so much as join ONE league in an easier house...you're screwed.

I would like to know "why" they don't use the composite. They are the organization that calculates the composite...seems like they should use it...but I guess maybe VDub is right and I should send them the question.

Either way...I'm still strongly considering going in 2016. I will "probably" be moving from Southern California to Iowa in the next few years...so I want to take as much opportunity as I can to do things out West while they are still within driving distance. Reno's National Bowling Stadium is on the top of that list. And bowling in the new bowling center at Southpoint is also on the list. Maybe even visiting the Kegal/USBC center near San Antonio. Once I move (if I move), those trips become much more expensive. No more going to Vegas 3-5 times a year to bowl.

[vdubtx]

There isn't a kegel center in Texas and the USBC ITRC is in Arlington, TX. Have been to the ITRC several times.

[mc_runner]

Aslan, for what it's worth I'm in a similar position as you... not quite the competitive 220+ average, no "real" chance of winning. I'm not going this year, or probably next, until I am a consistent 210+ average, and get a bunch more experience on sport patterns. Ideally a couple of NEBA tournaments as well. As it is I've probably got a total of 20 games on them in small tournaments I've done. The trick is just working until we can get better than the 180/190/200/205 whatever average we're at so we get into a good spot mentally going.

With that said, the first time I go (and right now I'm eyeing 2017) I do not expect to necessarily be competitive right out of the gate. The first time is always going to be a little bit humbling, I think. Work to improve the second time, the third time, etc.

[Aslan]

There isn't a kegel center in Texas and the USBC ITRC is in Arlington, TX. Have been to the ITRC several times.

Really? I thought USBC was in San Antonio? Good to know. But yeah…I meant the IRTC. I'd like to go there at least once.

And agree 100% MC_runner...

[Amyers]

I disagree with that mindset.

I used to run 5Ks a lot. And I ran a 10k once, realized my time in a 10k was not competitive. Same thing with a duathalon...I knew I couldn't be competitive unless I bought a faster bike. I never bothered entering a duathalon or 10k again. I figured I'd build up my endurance, lower my times, and then enter a 10k when I was competitive.

Bowling the USBC Open...obviously I'm not going to put if off until I feel I'm a sure shot to win overall events...hell, I'll never do it if I wait that long. But I also think it's silly to do it (unless it's held < 2 hours from you) if you're a 150-180 house bowler. The Open is sport bowling event. It should attract SPORT bowlers...not casual bowlers. Otherwise it'd be completely legal to have beers and order mozzarella sticks and wear tank tops while bowling the event. If your game isn't at a certain minimal level...your only "experience" is that thud sound when you roll a 137 and everyone snickers and chuckles.

I have a goal written down...I can't remember exactly what it is because I currently am missing the paper I wrote it down on...hope to find that as I move apartments...but it simply has a total series score or a league average or something like that...and until I can achieve that...I don't go to the Open. Just hypothetical, it would say something like "193 composite average for one season AND a 725 series." That gives me something to work towards. And a reward for achieving it. I have little goals like that regarding the USBC Open, the ABT, PBA Regional events, etc... Now I just need to find that notepad!! I doubt my 689 series would be enough to meet any of the goals...but I'm at least "sniffing" some of the targets I set.

But no...I've never been much for the "just have fun" mantra...not since grade school. If you're gonna drop $400-$1000...to travel across two states to bowl in a tournament...you should have at least a "shot" at winning it. VDubtx went, and I'd say...although a long shot...he has the ability to say he had a remote chance of catching fire and winning. So more power to him. Of matter of fact, I've been one of the few voices trying to push him a little more...maybe take that next step to some amateur tournaments or PBA regional events. If ya got the skills...go for it. The body isn't going to hold up forever...and none of us are getting younger. Do you really want to be using a walker at age 75 and wishing you could have went back 30 years and maybe challenged yourself a little more? I don't.


I consider bowling beneath my ability level to be sandbagging. And in that house...thanks to their recent attempts to make the easiest shot in Orange County...I am averaging 191. I could probably...believeably average like 164 the rest of the way without it seeming blatent...but let me put it to you this way: Last week in Game 1 I started off with 6 spares in a row...and the guy that runs the strike frame asked me why I was sandbagging. I was CLEAN through 6...but in THAT league....and this will seem strange to Mike who has actually bowled in a league with me...but in THAT league...I'm one of the better bowlers. And they know that...so I'm kinda stuck unless I fake an injury or something.




It's 180/181. That actually seems fair to me. I think that's generally the "line" between "good" and "average" bowlers...from what I've seen. What I DISAGREE with...and there's no solution to this that will ever happen realistically...but we need consistent conditions. I go bowl in Irvine and the lanes are toughest in Orange County and I average 155 over 9 games. I then go to Arlington and average 181 over 9 games. I then go to Concourse with their completely random, bowled on conditions and average 169. Then I go to AMF Carter where they've intentionally altered the pattern to make it easier and attract more league bowlers...and I average 191. So what is my true average? The composite is probably the closest...but the USBC doesn't use composite for the Open...it uses and one individual season in the last 3 years...

...moral to the story...if ya want an advantage at the Open...you better not ever bowl in a center that has an easy shot. Find the hardest centers in your area and hope that you do as bad as possible...because if you so much as join ONE league in an easier house...you're screwed.

I would like to know "why" they don't use the composite. They are the organization that calculates the composite...seems like they should use it...but I guess maybe VDub is right and I should send them the question.

Either way...I'm still strongly considering going in 2016. I will "probably" be moving from Southern California to Iowa in the next few years...so I want to take as much opportunity as I can to do things out West while they are still within driving distance. Reno's National Bowling Stadium is on the top of that list. And bowling in the new bowling center at Southpoint is also on the list. Maybe even visiting the Kegal/USBC center near San Antonio. Once I move (if I move), those trips become much more expensive. No more going to Vegas 3-5 times a year to bowl.

1. Your forgetting the difference between a house shot average and a sport shot average. There is no such thing as a sure thing at the open. There are plenty of 230+ average house hacks who go to the open thinking they've got a shot that don't have a clue and go shoot poor scores and there are very talented bowlers who go and just bowl poorly. It takes a lot of talent and a lot of luck to win all events. Those who have a realistic shot are more like 220-230 sport average bowlers. I'm not sure you or me will ever approach that level your getting close to the point where I start to agree with Ice that it's the gift at that point.

2. 7k+ bowlers go to the open I would say better than 90% know they have no shot they are going to have a good time and enjoy a few days with their teammates.

3. I do agree with you on the expense part. This is the reason why I haven't went to one maybe if we ever have another east coast one. I don't know anyone here (I'm sure there are some) who has attended one since the one in N.Y.

4. You are right on the composite average thing makes more sense to me or at least blend your averages between your leagues over the last 12-24 months.

5. Vdub should definitely enter some regionals.

6. The Kegal Training Center is in Florida also one of my dream places to go

[mc_runner]

Fortunately it does look like they'll be headed back to the East Coast in a few years.

2015 - El Paso, Texas
2016 - Reno, Nev.
2017 - Las Vegas
2018 - Syracuse, N.Y.
2019 - Las Vegas
2020 - Reno, Nev.
2021 - Las Vegas
2022 - TBD
2023 - Reno, Nev.
2024 - Las Vegas
2025 - Baton Rouge, La.
2026 - Reno, Nev.

[vdubtx]

Really? I thought USBC was in San Antonio? Good to know. But yeah…I meant the IRTC. I'd like to go there at least once.

And agree 100% MC_runner...

Nope, it's in Arlington which is in the DFW area. That is where I go to get my practice on the Nationals patterns the last 2 years. They do lessons, but I have not taken one there. They are very expensive, and I am sure for the money are worth it. I prefer to go to Susie Minshew, who is somewhat local as she is a Gold level coach just like the coaches at the ITRC.

[vdubtx]

1. Your forgetting the difference between a house shot average and a sport shot average. There is no such thing as a sure thing at the open. There are plenty of 230+ average house hacks who go to the open thinking they've got a shot that don't have a clue and go shoot poor scores and there are very talented bowlers who go and just bowl poorly. It takes a lot of talent and a lot of luck to win all events. Those who have a realistic shot are more like 220-230 sport average bowlers. I'm not sure you or me will ever approach that level your getting close to the point where I start to agree with Ice that it's the gift at that point.

5. Vdub should definitely enter some regionals.

Very good points on #1. I know some bowlers in my local area that went with 230+ house averages who barely broke 1400 let alone 1500 all events. Perhaps they were too confident that their shots would either carry, or their equipment would make it to the pocket no matter where they placed the ball. Then there are others that average 230 on house, but also bowl regionals who shot in the 1900+ all events range. Those that are used to shooting on sport conditions most of the time are the ones that are doing well out there. Have to be accurate with your shot placement, speed, release, and with your spares.

5. Thanks for the confidence boost thinking I could shoot regionals. I may give a few a shot sometime. Need to get a couple things in my game better in line this next year and go from there. Another lesson or 3 from Susie Minshew and think will be headed in right direction.

[vdubtx]

Fortunately it does look like they'll be headed back to the East Coast in a few years.

2015 - El Paso, Texas
2016 - Reno, Nev.
2017 - Las Vegas
2018 - Syracuse, N.Y.
2019 - Las Vegas
2020 - Reno, Nev.
2021 - Las Vegas
2022 - TBD
2023 - Reno, Nev.
2024 - Las Vegas
2025 - Baton Rouge, La.
2026 - Reno, Nev.

Yep, I am excited to go to Syracuse. Will be making a vacation out of that one. Wife will finally come to Nationals with me in Vegas and also to Syracuse so we can do NYC and Niagara as well.