Intermediate Technique Question: Ball distance from slide foot during slide?

[Aslan]

If we look at the starting stance; our left foot is on a certain board (or you're doing it wrong). Your "target" should also be a certain board (unless you're a breakpoint or area bowler).

Originally, early in my development, I would keep track of where my target (generally at the arrows) is relative to my slide foot and the distance between the 2 was approximately 10 boards or 15".

Lately, one of the biggest, most glaring differences I've seen is that as I continue to keep track of that metric…the number has dropped. The target is now 3-5 boards right of the slide foot.

So the question is related to the following:

1) What is YOUR number?
2) Is there an ideal number?
3) What are the guesses/opinions/insights into why my number has been shrinking and shrinking? Is it a bad thing because it means I'm throwing straight at the target and losing angle? Or is it a good thing because it means the ball is closer to the slide foot at the bottom of the swing?

Thanks

[bowl1820]

If we look at the starting stance; our left foot is on a certain board (or you're doing it wrong). Your "target" should also be a certain board (unless you're a breakpoint or area bowler).

Originally, early in my development, I would keep track of where my target (generally at the arrows) is relative to my slide foot and the distance between the 2 was approximately 10 boards or 15".

Lately, one of the biggest, most glaring differences I've seen is that as I continue to keep track of that metric…the number has dropped. The target is now 3-5 boards right of the slide foot.

So the question is related to the following:

1) What is YOUR number?
2) Is there an ideal number?
3) What are the guesses/opinions/insights into why my number has been shrinking and shrinking? Is it a bad thing because it means I'm throwing straight at the target and losing angle? Or is it a good thing because it means the ball is closer to the slide foot at the bottom of the swing?

Thanks

Counting the number of boards from your slide foot to your target is not the accurate way to describe the line from the foul line to your target.

What you want is called "The Laydown point" to determine it, you kneel on the approach and place your slide foot forward, lean forward with your bowling arm straight down across from your slide foot (Like your making a shot) you then Count the number of boards from the inside edge of the slide foot to the board where the middle finger is pointing at. Thats your Laydown point.



1- My laydown point is about 6 boards over, so when I'm standing on 20 I'm sitting the ball down on about 14-15 at the foul line.

2- Okay Rob says about 5"-6" below we can go with that for a "ideal" number, But most people are not going to be "ideal" in their deliveries and IMO I think there will be some variation do to people physiques, maybe not a lot but some.

3- The fact that your "number is shrinking and given the way you measured it" just says your slide foot is getting closer to the board your target is on. It doesn't really indicate if your laydown point is getting closer to your ankle.

Given if your actual laydown point isn't changing and just your slide foot has gotten closer to the board your target is on (10 boards down to 3-5). Your basically rolling the ball straighter down the lane.

[RobLV1]

If you are walking straight and sliding into the same board that where you are starting, your laydown point should be no more than 5"-6" to the right of your slide foot. If it is more than that, you are either not keeping your arm behind the ball, or there is a problem with your footwork that is preventing you from clearing your right hip on your fourth step.

[J Anderson]

If we look at the starting stance; our left foot is on a certain board (or you're doing it wrong).

Unless you're left-handed, in which case you should be setting up based on the position of your right foot.

[Mike White]

If we look at the starting stance; our left foot is on a certain board (or you're doing it wrong). Your "target" should also be a certain board (unless you're a breakpoint or area bowler).

Originally, early in my development, I would keep track of where my target (generally at the arrows) is relative to my slide foot and the distance between the 2 was approximately 10 boards or 15".

Lately, one of the biggest, most glaring differences I've seen is that as I continue to keep track of that metric…the number has dropped. The target is now 3-5 boards right of the slide foot.

So the question is related to the following:

1) What is YOUR number?
2) Is there an ideal number?
3) What are the guesses/opinions/insights into why my number has been shrinking and shrinking? Is it a bad thing because it means I'm throwing straight at the target and losing angle? Or is it a good thing because it means the ball is closer to the slide foot at the bottom of the swing?

Thanks

I think this start and slide on the same board idea is crap.

Lets take for example, you want to go through the arrows (15 feet) at the 15th board, and by 45 feet, you want the ball to reach the 7 board.

At that point the ball will change directions and head back towards the pocket.

The question is, assuming the ball follows a straight path until it reaches 45 feet, where should we be laying down the ball, and where should we be starting on the approach.

To make the math simpler, lets assume we use the whole 15 feet of the approach.

Work from the break point backwards to the start of the approach.

For the ball to reach the 7 board at 45 feet, while also passing over the 15th board at 15 feet, we can calculate that the ball will cross to the right 4 boards every 15 feet.

That would indicate that the laydown point at the foul line should be the 19th board, and at the beginning of the approach, the ball should be located over the 23rd board.

If we have a 6 board offset between the center of the ball, and our slide foot, we should be sliding at the 25th board.

And likewise we should be starting the approach with our sliding foot on the 29th board.

That would keep the path of the ball straight through the arm swing, and we walk towards our target.

Since we want to slide on the 25th board, if we started on the 25th board, and walked parallel to the boards, the natural release would throw the ball straight up the 19th board, not across the 15, and out to the 7.

The only way to generate that angle out, while walking parallel to the boards, is to bring the ball behind our back.

If you move even deeper, there simply isn't anywhere to stand and throw the ball straight from start to finish, so it all becomes a form of art.

Good art takes lots of practice, and less science.

Good art doesn't have things like must walk parallel as it's criteria.

[Amyers]

I think this start and slide on the same board idea is crap.

Lets take for example, you want to go through the arrows (15 feet) at the 15th board, and by 45 feet, you want the ball to reach the 7 board.

At that point the ball will change directions and head back towards the pocket.

The question is, assuming the ball follows a straight path until it reaches 45 feet, where should we be laying down the ball, and where should we be starting on the approach.

To make the math simpler, lets assume we use the whole 15 feet of the approach.

Work from the break point backwards to the start of the approach.

For the ball to reach the 7 board at 45 feet, while also passing over the 15th board at 15 feet, we can calculate that the ball will cross to the right 4 boards every 15 feet.

That would indicate that the laydown point at the foul line should be the 19th board, and at the beginning of the approach, the ball should be located over the 23rd board.

If we have a 6 board offset between the center of the ball, and our slide foot, we should be sliding at the 25th board.

And likewise we should be starting the approach with our sliding foot on the 29th board.

That would keep the path of the ball straight through the arm swing, and we walk towards our target.

Since we want to slide on the 25th board, if we started on the 25th board, and walked parallel to the boards, the natural release would throw the ball straight up the 19th board, not across the 15, and out to the 7.

The only way to generate that angle out, while walking parallel to the boards, is to bring the ball behind our back.

If you move even deeper, there simply isn't anywhere to stand and throw the ball straight from start to finish, so it all becomes a form of art.

Good art takes lots of practice, and less science.

Good art doesn't have things like must walk parallel as it's criteria.

This makes some sense to me but isn't part of what's creating the angle the opening of the hips and shoulders?

[Aslan]

I like the "breakpoint", more modern bowling type of idea as much as the next guy versus the 80s/90s "up and in" approach. But throwing towards the breakpoint which is generally 7-9 boards (rightys) at about 41-49ft depending on the pattern...requires an angular motion of the ball. And while there "should" be dry area there...it still requires an above average rev rate and modern bowling ball to make that angular motion.

I have not seen many patterns where even 2013 technology with a 250rpm rev rate...where the ball skids to that break point and then makes an angular motion to the pocket. If my bowling ball isn't at least "trying to hook" by about 35ft...you can sand a spot at 41-49ft and my ball still ain't making that turn.

Either you have a backwards "C" shot with a big arc into the pocket...or you have an "L"-shaped shot that hits a breakpoint and changes direction. I don't have an "L"-shaped shot...and in two years haven't been able to improve my rev rate or lower my speed enough to create that type of shot. If my left foot gets further left than about 3.5 boards...I'm not hitting the headpin...unless I throw a straight shot at the pocket and just hope it moves a "little" before it hits the pocket...and "hope" that at least some of the shots carry.

[Aslan]

This makes some sense to me but isn't part of what's creating the angle the opening of the hips and shoulders?

The "angle", from my understanding, is created by the cover/finsish of the ball and how aggressively it reacts with the friction on the lane. Doesn't matter what your hips and shoulders do if you're throwing a plastic ball...there's not going to be angle. Am I wrong? <----I ask with 75% certainty Rob will say "yes" and 99% certainty that Mike will say "yes"....and a 89% certainty Mike and Rob will disagree regarding how I'm wrong.

[Amyers]

The "angle", from my understanding, is created by the cover/finsish of the ball and how aggressively it reacts with the friction on the lane. Doesn't matter what your hips and shoulders do if you're throwing a plastic ball...there's not going to be angle. Am I wrong? <----I ask with 75% certainty Rob will say "yes" and 99% certainty that Mike will say "yes"....and a 89% certainty Mike and Rob will disagree regarding how I'm wrong.

You misunderstood me I was referring to the ball traveling to the right (for a right handed bowler) not the hook back to the pocket. The ball has nothing really to do with at what angle the ball moves to the right

[fortheloveofbowling]

I think this start and slide on the same board idea is crap.

Lets take for example, you want to go through the arrows (15 feet) at the 15th board, and by 45 feet, you want the ball to reach the 7 board.

At that point the ball will change directions and head back towards the pocket.

The question is, assuming the ball follows a straight path until it reaches 45 feet, where should we be laying down the ball, and where should we be starting on the approach.

To make the math simpler, lets assume we use the whole 15 feet of the approach.

Work from the break point backwards to the start of the approach.

For the ball to reach the 7 board at 45 feet, while also passing over the 15th board at 15 feet, we can calculate that the ball will cross to the right 4 boards every 15 feet.

That would indicate that the laydown point at the foul line should be the 19th board, and at the beginning of the approach, the ball should be located over the 23rd board.

If we have a 6 board offset between the center of the ball, and our slide foot, we should be sliding at the 25th board.

And likewise we should be starting the approach with our sliding foot on the 29th board.

That would keep the path of the ball straight through the arm swing, and we walk towards our target.

Since we want to slide on the 25th board, if we started on the 25th board, and walked parallel to the boards, the natural release would throw the ball straight up the 19th board, not across the 15, and out to the 7.

The only way to generate that angle out, while walking parallel to the boards, is to bring the ball behind our back.

If you move even deeper, there simply isn't anywhere to stand and throw the ball straight from start to finish, so it all becomes a form of art.

Good art takes lots of practice, and less science.

Good art doesn't have things like must walk parallel as it's criteria.

If you want to bowl well on house patterns today this is exactly how you have to look at the lane. Like mike said, work from the break point backwards. To create the desired angle to get to the pocket and then find carry adjust your launch angles at that point. This is a way of looking at the lane i or most people rarely did 25-30 years ago. Find the boards down lane and then figure out the path to get there that gets the best results. This is standard in todays game on most patterns for a majority of both styles and overall levels of bowlers. If you are a high rev player or more of a stroker it does not matter. Play the lane back to front and work different angles to your break point. Good post Mike.