When sweeps leads to sandbagging…bad things happen...

[Amyers]

Around here sweepers money is paid out for a few different categories.

Everything is with Handicap

Womens Singles
Mens Singles
Womens Double (every female is paired with every other female)
Mens Doubles (same pairing rules)
Mixed Doubles (every person is paired with every other person of the opposite gender)

When there is money set aside for teams, it's usually a set amount per pair, with the team on the pair who shoots higher total, gets something like 60%, and the lower team gets 40%.

Occasionally they will split the singles and doubles each into 3 payouts, one for each game, rather than total series.

In my Laughlin league, of the money left after lineage, 75% goes towards point money (paid before going to Laughlin) and 25% is paid based on how you do in Laughlin.

Oh also out of that money, the league pays for one night hotel per person. So a couple staying in the same room would get 2 nights, or can opt for 1 night, and cash.

Some people gamble enough that the casino comps them rooms, so the league gives them cash instead of the room.

Is the point money paid out on team results? If it is and you're screwing with 75% of my money to try and get an extra amount of the 25% paid out for sweeps I'm going to be using some of my money to purchase a shovel to bury your body with. We usually have set amounts for first and second place and then awards high average and such the remainder is paid out in points based off the final team standings. I don't think I would care much for bowling that way your describing. With that kind of crap going on us hillbillies don't take kindly to people playing games with our money.

[Mike White]

Is the point money paid out on team results? If it is and you're screwing with 75% of my money to try and get an extra amount of the 25% paid out for sweeps I'm going to be using some of my money to purchase a shovel to bury your body with. We usually have set amounts for first and second place and then awards high average and such the remainder is paid out in points based off the final team standings. I don't think I would care much for bowling that way your describing. With that kind of crap going on us hillbillies don't take kindly to people playing games with our money.

It's pretty much the same, except rather than a set amount for the final positions, the money paid to teams is divided up based on the number of games won during the season.

So if for example, the 1st place team won 70.5 games, and the 2nd place team won 70 games, they would be paid almost the same amount of money.

Maybe hillbillies have a reputation for being "backwards" because they are too eager to resort to shovels, when presented with a different idea.

Why is having set amounts for first, second, etc not "playing games" with your money?

Why not have all teams get the same amount back regardless of how they finish in the league.

I'm sure the lower half of your league wouldn't mind that.

If I remember correctly, of the $18 we paid each night, $9.50 when to lineage, 5.625 went towards the point money fund, and 2.875 went towards league expenses, trophies, room fees, and sweepers.

Over the course of the season, the point money fund totaled about $16000, while the total sweeper fund was somewhere around $5000.

[Amyers]

Maybe hillbillies have a reputation for being "backwards" because they are too eager to resort to shovels, when presented with a different idea

Could be. I really wouldn't have an issue with the setup here. Were it becomes an issue is if you have bowlers screwing the team (75% of the money) to get an advantage for the sweeper (25% of the money).

Why is having set amounts for first, second, etc not "playing games" with your money?

I've played in point's only leagues before and don't have an issue with it. Usually the guarantee leagues that pay set amounts for first or first and second still have sponsors here. I know becoming a rarity so the point money is prize fund money paid out equally among the teams based on the point scale.

Why not have all teams get the same amount back regardless of how they finish in the league

If you wanted to do that why have a prize fund to begin with? I don't need someone else to set up a savings account for me. I have played in church leagues that don't have a prize fund (mostly out of desperation because their wasn't a league on that night during the summer) can't say as I cared much for it. It was mostly newer bowlers or people that treated it as a social event. Which is fine if that's what they are interested in. Learned my lesson if I see a league where more than 25% of the bowlers are throwing house balls run don't walk.

[Mike White]

Could be. I really wouldn't have an issue with the setup here. Were it becomes an issue is if you have bowlers screwing the team (75% of the money) to get an advantage for the sweeper (25% of the money).

Ok I thought you meant the people making the rules were screwing with the 75%. I didn't even consider it being your teammates.... In that case, resume shovel shopping.

I've played in point's only leagues before and don't have an issue with it. Usually the guarantee leagues that pay set amounts for first or first and second still have sponsors here. I know becoming a rarity so the point money is prize fund money paid out equally among the teams based on the point scale.

You've got companies willing to donate money to bowling? Damn, must be nice.

I personally knew the owner of the local Buick dealership, and while we were able to get a "sponsor fee" for something like $50 from him, we didn't get shirts.

If you wanted to do that why have a prize fund to begin with? I don't need someone else to set up a savings account for me. I have played in church leagues that don't have a prize fund (mostly out of desperation because their wasn't a league on that night during the summer) can't say as I cared much for it. It was mostly newer bowlers or people that treated it as a social event. Which is fine if that's what they are interested in. Learned my lesson if I see a league where more than 25% of the bowlers are throwing house balls run don't walk.

As far as having all teams paid the same, you're response here is almost verbatim of mine, even down to the saving account.

[Aslan]

Around here, leagues that don't do sweeps are probably harder to find than scratch leagues.

The only one I can think of is a church league where all of the money left over after lineage is donated to the church.

That's one of the biggest differences with bowling in California versus other parts of the country. Because Vegas is SO close...yet far enough away that it's still desireable to go to...I'd say at LEAST 60% of the leagues sweep in Vegas. And there's usually one league per center that sweeps in Laughlin, NV. Of the other lets say 5-40% of leagues...they may sweep differently...like one was golf oriented and they used sweeper money for a end of season golf thing. Another one was a horse track league that swept at a horse race. There are plenty of leagues that don't sweep in Vegas...but they are usually scratch, or they are senior leagues during the day, or some are non-sanctioned, etc... But Mike IS right...I'll roughly have the same trouble finding a league that doesn't sweep in Vegas or Laughlin as I would finding a scratch league.

Neither are as rare sport short leagues...sport shot leagues are exceedingly rare. Travel leagues are also very difficult to find and get into....especially if you need to join an evening league. Many of the coolest leagues around here are during the day. Pro shop operators and PBA regional folks end up filling daytime scratch/competitive leagues because usually they are busy with the pro shop in the evenings.

There's a couple really big money scratch leagues around here...mainly at Fountain Bowl and Del Rio. But it's like $30-$36/week and you're bowling against PBA Regional level talent.

That reminds me of the last BVL tournament I went to for Orange County and one of the guys bowling in the Scratch division, who eventually won it, everyone was kinda giving him guff about bowling in the tournament and I couldn't figure out why. Then I bowled in a PBA West Regional Pro Am and there he was. Then I realized they were giving him guff because he was a legitimate pro bowling in a very low level amateur tournament.

[Tony]

It's pretty much the same, except rather than a set amount for the final positions, the money paid to teams is divided up based on the number of games won during the season.

So if for example, the 1st place team won 70.5 games, and the 2nd place team won 70 games, they would be paid almost the same amount of money.

Maybe hillbillies have a reputation for being "backwards" because they are too eager to resort to shovels, when presented with a different idea.

Why is having set amounts for first, second, etc not "playing games" with your money?

Why not have all teams get the same amount back regardless of how they finish in the league.

I'm sure the lower half of your league wouldn't mind that.

If I remember correctly, of the $18 we paid each night, $9.50 when to lineage, 5.625 went towards the point money fund, and 2.875 went towards league expenses, trophies, room fees, and sweepers.

Over the course of the season, the point money fund totaled about $16000, while the total sweeper fund was somewhere around $5000.

Our league gets some local sponsor money and the team payout is also based on team wins. They also pay out a small set amount (20.00) for high game and series with and without handicap.

One league I bowled in used to do a sweeper night but to prevent sandbagging most of the money won went to the team, they had small amounts set to go for the other doubles and singles events, 20 - 50 dollars so there was not that much incentive to cheat.

[zdawg]

But will there BE a 3rd Annual?? ZDawg has been AWOL for quite some time...can't have a 3rd Annual Billy Hardwick Memorial Aslan vs. ZDawg Southern California Invitational without a "ZDawg"!! Besides...who is Mike gonna finish ahead of if it's just me and him!??

And I'm back...

Truth be told, I haven't bowled since the beginning of May, had a minor meltdown with my team when 3 people decided they weren't able to make it the day of the most important match of last winter season (1 guy just didn't show up he apparently fell asleep at least the other 2 texted me less than an hour before we were scheduled to bowl). Essentially we had to forfeit and lost any shot at the championship after a lot of hard work climbing the ladder in the second half of the season, to say I was pissed is an understatement (I'm friends outside of bowling with 2 of the 3 culprits in this situation so I eventually just had to let it go).

So, I decided to take the Summer off with the idea of possibly subbing here and there and maybe throwing in a couple of practice sessions each week, but that never materialized either due in part to a nagging shoulder injury.

My lack of any bowling whatsoever for the last 4 months or so directly correlates to my lack of participation on the board, however our league is starting Friday so I figured I'd drop by and check out all that's happened since I disappeared. Hopefully there are some good technique threads, as I have a feeling its gonna be a rough few weeks or more getting back into the swing of things (hopefully without any further injuries)

[Amyers]

Good to see you back zdawg now where is Mudpuppy.

[Aslan]

And from the newsdesk at the corporate sandbagging headquarters...a new situation occurred in my former Tuesday league...apparently the guy that took 2nd place (and about $900) at sweeps...was a 200+ average bowler that during last season had a league average in the 150s.

So, when I went to visit my old team and collect my massive $33 winnings from Sweeps (I had to leave and go bowl in my 2nd league while they gave out the money), they told me that because of that guy...this season there is a new rule; something to the effect that, going into sweeps, a person cannot average more than 15 pins lower than the season before.

It amazes me how many new rules we keep coming up with to try and defeat sandbaggers...yet it's completely ineffective.

Iceman....if you weren't busy advocating snake oil as a treatment for cancer, measles, and the common cold...I'm sure you'd be here joining me in the condemnation of cheaters and sandbaggers everywhere!!! Booooo!! to them!

[jab5325]

And from the newsdesk at the corporate sandbagging headquarters...a new situation occurred in my former Tuesday league...apparently the guy that took 2nd place (and about $900) at sweeps...was a 200+ average bowler that during last season had a league average in the 150s.

So, when I went to visit my old team and collect my massive $33 winnings from Sweeps (I had to leave and go bowl in my 2nd league while they gave out the money), they told me that because of that guy...this season there is a new rule; something to the effect that, going into sweeps, a person cannot average more than 15 pins lower than the season before.

It amazes me how many new rules we keep coming up with to try and defeat sandbaggers...yet it's completely ineffective.

Iceman....if you weren't busy advocating snake oil as a treatment for cancer, measles, and the common cold...I'm sure you'd be here joining me in the condemnation of cheaters and sandbaggers everywhere!!! Booooo!! to them!

That's pretty comical.

No matter what the rules are, dishonest people will always find a way to cheat the system.

There's a guy in my house who is notorious for cheating, and quite honestly, he's good at doing it. He'll never throw 150 and magically average 235 in tournaments. But, he'll purposely throw the wrong ball for a series (or the wrong line), dump a 10-pin shot in the gutter, but appear normal to most people. Then, in tournaments, he's like a machine.....and laughs about it. He's never admitted to cheating, but everyone knows it but can't pin him on it (pun intended).