Relationship between bowling center and pro shop?

[John Anderson]

Personally, I have had a much better experience with pro shops that are NOT in a bowling alley. The relationship is strange for those in house shops and many of them do not provide the best service to the bowler. I am certain there are some that do, but I have found more that do not.

What shops do you know of that aren't in bowling alleys near you? I'm pretty close to you location wise.

[Aslan]

The realities of the bowling business are, you make more money from the food department, and alcohol department than from the bowling department.

The more serious the bowler, the less food/alcohol they tend to purchase.

On the Friday night leagues, they have 40 lanes full of 4 people per team.

Lineage is 9.50 per person, so the center has $1520 income per week from that night's league bowling.

Right after the league is done, they have cosmic bowling. $14 per person.

As long as they have 109+ people, they are making more from cosmic than from league.

On most Fridays they average close to 200 cosmic bowlers.

The problem is...those numbers are short-sighted. They look at a certain time and say;

"Hey...I can make more on cosmic bowling!! Screw leagues! They're a hastle anyways!"

But here's the RUB...those leagues...on some nights...Mon-Wed for example...will bring in more income than open/cosmic bowling will. On Thursdays...could go either way. Friday night?? Depends on whether it's summer or winter (kids in or out of school).

So what a lot of bowling alleys did (thanks in part to Bowlmor's claims that the future of bowling is the gourmet food/bar oriented entertainment venue)...was stop promoting league play. And a LOT of those bowling alleys completely went under after 1-3 years. Even Bowlmor's fancy Manhattan bowling center closed. Why? Because those numbers are short-sighted. They assume that if the lanes are available...you can draw 100-110 bowlers a night. And near a college campus...maybe you can. On the weekends, sure, most bowling alleys do well on the weekends. But what about Mon-Fri? What about when summer ends and the kids are back in school and involved in after school activities and the parents aren't looking for something to get them off the couch??

League bowling may be less profitable...but it's a CONSISTENT form of income. SO consistent, that (at least in the past) bowling alleys could get loans using league lineage as a form of collateral...because it's a consistent revenue stream. Once those leagues go away...you have no consistent revenue stream and simply have to pin your hopes to people in the general area being bored on a Tuesday night or random birthday parties.

Bowlmor won't admit it...but their model is completely faulty. It works very well in niche markets...affluent markets...night club type of markets. Yet it has failed more times than it's worked. Case in point...the AMF house near where I work...no longer there. Bowlmor bought it, reduce the hours to the point that all their day leagues and senior leagues moved to a nearby private center, put a ton of money into the place to upgrade the scoring system to touch screens and update all the " ambiance", and the center was completely closed and demolished in less than 1 year. Bowlmor tends to 'forget' about those kinds of stories when they are taunting how great their business model is for bowling centers.

And to relate this to the topic at hand...another death blow to a center...before they ever get rid of leagues...is not having a pro shop onsite. League bowlers, if they have a choice, will bowl at a place with a pro shop before bowling in a center that doesn't have one. And during league play, the pro shops I've seen (Mike's included) are almost standing room only. Packed with people wanting new balls, new shoes, accessories, powder, and lots of "adjustments". What do you do if your thumb is sticking in the ball and you need to get the thumbhole widened just a bit during league play? Do you just go home and wait till the weekend to bring your ball to a nearby pro shop?? That's completely absurd.

If bowling centers want a good deal of income...on a consistent basis...to maintain a successful business...they should have at least 1/2 their centers filled with leagues every weeknight and during the morning on the weekend. Very few that abandon that model are able to stay profitable for long. They may do well in the summer or around the holidays...but that's about it.

We see the same thing with movies. What movies make the most money? Cartoons. Because parents love anything that will keep their kids quiet for 2 hours at a time...even if they have to pay through the nose. Does that mean we should just make all kids movies and get rid of adult oriented movies?? Nope. That would be absurd. But using the same logic as bowling centers....it makes sense. Cartoons = $$$$....so lets get rid of the R-rated stuff and just do family movies and cartoons!! SHORT...SIGHTED.

[NewToBowling]

I have yet to see a dedicated bowling alley without a pro shop. The pro shop at the place I bowl at has terrible hours. They have banker hours. Open around noon to 4-5pm. Yeah lets close when league is going on. That's a money making proposition there. But it doesn't matter anyways as the people that work there are only employees, not the actual owner. They rotate 3 guys so you never know who will be there on any given day. And they aren't real interested in helping you out as they don't see any of the profit. Prefer to just sit back and wait for end of shift.

[Mike White]

I have yet to see a dedicated bowling alley without a pro shop. The pro shop at the place I bowl at has terrible hours. They have banker hours. Open around noon to 4-5pm. Yeah lets close when league is going on. That's a money making proposition there. But it doesn't matter anyways as the people that work there are only employees, not the actual owner. They rotate 3 guys so you never know who will be there on any given day. And they aren't real interested in helping you out as they don't see any of the profit. Prefer to just sit back and wait for end of shift.

Sounds like the owner isn't seeing much profit either.

When I owned the shop, my hours were noon to 8 pm weekdays, and 5 until 8 on Sundays.

Only exceptions were if I was bowling.

Where I was at, there wasn't enough business to even consider hiring an employee.

The guy who is there now does it more as a hobby.

He works 8am to 4pm at a county job, then 5pm to 8pm in the shop (when he is there).

[Mike White]

If bowling centers want a good deal of income...on a consistent basis...to maintain a successful business...they should have at least 1/2 their centers filled with leagues every weeknight and during the morning on the weekend.

You're ignoring the trends.

The # of games bowled, attributed to league bowling is on a decline, while open bowling (non league bowlers) is increasing.

[Tony]

According to a discussion I was party to a few months ago (the guys involved owned 8 bowling centers between them) agreed that the league bowler was still the main income producing source overall. The league bowlers often came in an practiced and bowled in the cosmic or other recreational bowling sessions, in addition to leagues. They also consumed beverages and food before, during and after play. The league I bowl in (handicap) has a fair number of pretty serious bowlers and the bar and kitchen can't keep up. While on the average the more serious the bowler is the less they consume , how many scratch leagues are there anymore ? Those are the really serious bowlers in my area and they don't have that many of those leagues anymore, but they have been adding beer and pizza league and women's wine leagues.
Granted this might not be reflective of the entire nation, this is just the opinion of a few guys in the Midwest, but they are bowling proprietors. I think the lineage in my league is 10.50 or 11.

Keep in mind another major factor, the cost to attract the recreational bowler, once a guy joins a league he is probably going to be showing up 30 plus times a year , how many advertising dollars does it take to entice the recreational bowler to return 30 plus time in the next year. Once you factor that single item in, you can easily see for the average bowling center in the midwest the league bowler is the one that drives the revenue.

[Mike White]

Keep in mind another major factor, the cost to attract the recreational bowler, once a guy joins a league he is probably going to be showing up 30 plus times a year , how many advertising dollars does it take to entice the recreational bowler to return 30 plus time in the next year. Once you factor that single item in, you can easily see for the average bowling center in the midwest the league bowler is the one that drives the revenue.

Lets examine the cost to attract bowlers.

Assuming you take 100 people at random.

Make them the offer, for $50, they can bowl 4 times during the year.

Then offer for $330 they can bowl in a league 30 times during the year.
(Note: they would have to pay the extra $$ into the prize fund each week)

Which do you think is the harder sale?

Even if you limited the 100 people to current league bowlers, the bang per advertising buck leans in favor of the non-league bowling.

[Tony]

Lets examine the cost to attract bowlers.

Assuming you take 100 people at random.

Make them the offer, for $50, they can bowl 4 times during the year.

Then offer for $330 they can bowl in a league 30 times during the year.
(Note: they would have to pay the extra $$ into the prize fund each week)

Which do you think is the harder sale?

Even if you limited the 100 people to current league bowlers, the bang per advertising buck leans in favor of the non-league bowling.

Sorry, I was relaying real information from guys that run bowling centers, not made up "100 people at random" scenarios that prove nothing.

You are welcome to believe what you choose, I choose to believe the guys I was listening to.

FYI one of the guys is in the USBC and BPAA hall of fame....I'm pretty sure he knows his business

[Tony]

Back on the original topic one of the smartest guys I know owned 2 centers and gave the pro-shops space for free and asked they be open as much as possible during league times, that's where they also made lots of sales and also did small adjustments for free.

[Mike White]

Sorry, I was relaying real information from guys that run bowling centers, not made up "100 people at random" scenarios that prove nothing.

You are welcome to believe what you choose, I choose to believe the guys I was listening to.

FYI one of the guys is in the USBC and BPAA hall of fame....I'm pretty sure he knows his business

"Keep in mind another major factor, the cost to attract the recreational bowler, once a guy joins a league he is probably going to be showing up 30 plus times a year , how many advertising dollars does it take to entice the recreational bowler to return 30 plus time in the next year. Once you factor that single item in, you can easily see for the average bowling center in the midwest the league bowler is the one that drives the revenue."

I suppose all of this part came from their conversation, and none of it was something you just made up.

As for someone being in the BPAA hall of fame... that's not a big compliment.

It's the BPAA who must take the largest share of blame for the sport losing credibility.