Relationship between bowling center and pro shop?

[GeoLes]

If a bowling center has a large competitive bowling population, there is a huge incentive for a pro shop to be be available whenever the bowling center is open. This is not always the norm. . At my local center, the sign says they are available 3 days a week during specific hours which overlap with league hours, but they are often not open as posted. Early in league season they are open regularly, but as time goes on and the need for equipment and adjustments become less immediate, they often will open later, and later, or not at all. They are NOT open on the weekends at all.

This means the pro shop does not think it profitable to open all the time. You see this diminishing need with popular weekend kiddie parties, and the like on the rise as well. As we move from bowling centers to entertainment centers (with some bowling), look for even less pro shop representation. One lane near me has shut down at the beginning of the summer to totally rennovate as a "Dave & Busters" type of place with games, sports bar and bowling. They will NOT have any type of pro shop at all.

[Tony]

Hey, you are the one who brought up the idea of advertising costs.

The least expensive form of advertising is to send out your information to the general public..... Be that TV, Radio, or junk mail.

The issue is, you don't know anything about those people when you send the information, so they are "people at random"

Now you can narrow down that to people who are more likely to be interested in bowling, but gathering that information about your target audience has a higher cost.


The "100 people at random" is actually a scientific process, not some made up fiction.

Statistics 101.

If I were to tell you in advance exactly how those 100 people would answer, that would be made up ****. I didn't do that.

You drew a conclusion, that was not arrived at using random variables, or possible outcomes. IE Made up answer

"Even if you limited the 100 people to current league bowlers, the bang per advertising buck leans in favor of the non-league bowling."

I think we can agree that we don't agree on this point and that's not going to change.

I would assume based on your other comments that you consider the guys talking were all full of crap and know little to nothing about bowling despite the fact that one of the guys was Co-founder of the Ladies Pro bowlers Tour and one of the most instrumental figures in bowling over the past 40 years.

[bowl1820]

LOL....POTY!

I often wonder why the mods don't view it as "trolling" when he follows EVERY ONE of poor Rob's posts who is just trying to help people improve. Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm........

Well being a know it all tool isn't quite a troll and this board turned into the wildwest awhile back. So we kind of got some slide.

[Amyers]

Well being a know it all tool isn't quite a troll and this board turned into the wildwest awhile back. So we kind of got some slide.

Haha that's classic

[Tony]

Well being a know it all tool isn't quite a troll and this board turned into the wildwest awhile back. So we kind of got some slide.

All in all it doesn't bother me a bit, Mike reminds me a little of a guy I know who would argue any subject with anyone, he was a Harvard Medical Grad and would make sure you knew that in the first 2 minutes you spoke with him. I can't count the times he has disagreed with and argued the point to death on subject not within his field. I witnessed several times he would argue points of law with a buddy of mine that is a Judge and others where he would argue with engineers, IT experts, PGA touring pro's, or anyone....always concerning something in their field of expertise, according to him he was always right.....
He played in a few Pro-am's and was barred from any future play because he was giving the Pro's unsolicited advice on their game.
Then he harassed them from the gallery and was barred from the grounds during the events.

[bubba809]

All in all it doesn't bother me a bit, Mike reminds me a little of a guy I know who would argue any subject with anyone, he was a Harvard Medical Grad and would make sure you knew that in the first 2 minutes you spoke with him. I can't count the times he has disagreed with and argued the point to death on subject not within his field. I witnessed several times he would argue points of law with a buddy of mine that is a Judge and others where he would argue with engineers, IT experts, PGA touring pro's, or anyone....always concerning something in their field of expertise, according to him he was always right.....
He played in a few Pro-am's and was barred from any future play because he was giving the Pro's unsolicited advice on their game.
Then he harassed them from the gallery and was barred from the grounds during the events.

Doesn't bother me either. I am actually quite entertained by Mike's defensive responses. He does have a reasonable amount of bowling knowledge up there, it's just comes across as being such a d*uche. That's what people have the problem with. Nobody said he doesn't have the ability to spew out statistics and specs. It's the "people skills" that are lacking. I've seen quite a few of his videos and I do have a pretty good assessment of his personality "type". Can you say "little man syndrome"? Just a thought/observation. Aslan can say more has he has spent some quality time with Mike. Maybe it's all just a big internet tough guy scheme. I think he's just compensating for something.........

[NewToBowling]

Doesn't bother me either. I am actually quite entertained by Mike's defensive responses. He does have a reasonable amount of bowling knowledge up there, it's just comes across as being such a d*uche. That's what people have the problem with. Nobody said he doesn't have the ability to spew out statistics and specs. It's the "people skills" that are lacking. I've seen quite a few of his videos and I do have a pretty good assessment of his personality "type". Can you say "little man syndrome"? Just a thought/observation. Aslan can say more has he has spent some quality time with Mike. Maybe it's all just a big internet tough guy scheme. I think he's just compensating for something.........

That's uncalled for and now your'e the one trolling

[Aslan]

Bowling in the Midwest and California are different beasts. Property values, costs, and wages are far different.

Totally agree Amyers. In the Midwest, there are fewer centers, especially in the rural areas. I looked at an area of Michigan last week and between the Keewenaw peninsula and Munising (approximately 2.5 hours of driving distance...like 150 miles) there were 4 bowling centers. And only one of them looked like a place that even remotely caters to league bowlers. Meanwhile...as much as I gripe about places closing down...I live within a 20 minute drive of at LEAST 12 centers...probably more like 14 when you add in the gourmet places like Pinz. The downside to California is the property value and taxes are so outrageously high...that anyone that leases land...when the lease is up, the land owner generally can get millions by selling the land to a developer. Yorba Linda Bowl was a beloved facility...great for family bowling as well as leagues...very popular...great owners...yet their lease was up and the owner wanted to build a Whole Foods grocery store there. Tustin Lanes, same thing. The lease was up and the owner of the land I heard got in the 3-8 million dollar range for that property...so Tustin Lanes will be closing in October. And the problem is...nobody is building more bowling alleys. It's not like 2-3 close down and another one gets built. [/QUOTE]

I often wonder why the mods don't view it as "trolling" when he follows EVERY ONE of poor Rob's posts who is just trying to help people improve. Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm........

As someone who has been labeled as a troll on more than one website...I can attest that the term "troll" is often mis-used. A "troll" is a person that offers little value but is constantly going from thread to thread starting trouble. A troll is NOT....a person that is controversial or has strong opinions or is "irritating".

Take it from one of only two guys that actually almost got voted off this site...too many people go on the internet and think that if they come across a person they don't like...that said person should be removed. That's not how society works (outside of North Korea) and it certainly isn't how the internet works.

Some members tried to start their own bowling site...that would be "better" in part because people like me and Iceman and Mike wouldn't be welcome there. And that site lasted about a year and got very little traffic. They had good content (I snuck in occasionally...shhh, don't tell...I was incognito...) and the site functioned well...but it wasn't entertaining. And as soon as someone started to disagree....said person was ganged up on and they never returned.

My advice to people...whether they hate me or love me...or hate/love anyone else is...there's LOTS of threads...you don't HAVE TO read all of them. If there are people you don't like....or they rub you the wrong way...you can very easily click on a box (Bowl1820 can give a tutorial) where you don't see anything they post. I know of at LEAST 2-3 users that have me blocked (and can't see this). But if you're (not you...in general) a person that has a thin skin....the internet is just not a great place for you. Because the WORST I've seen (in terms of behavior) on this site...would be exponentially better than I've seen on other sites. This is an older, more mature (except for Iceman) crowd...that shares a love for bowling...and the vast, vast majority of the time things are completely civil.

Mike has a better understanding of the physics of ball motion than most bowlers and even a lot of PSO's. I've seen some of his comments on other sites that are informative and well though out an honestly over top of the heads (including mine sometimes)...you have to take the good with the bad when your dealing with people.

Again, I agree with Amyers wholeheartedly. Some people have "big personalities". I do. Iceman does. That both draws people in and entertains them...and it also at times pushes people away. You take the good with the bad. You want Iceman gone? He left...and mostly everyone wanted him to come back.

As I've said in multiple posts...what people don't see when they read what Mike or Rob or Iceman or myself...is what was on display during the Aslan vs. Iceman Challenge in Las Vegas. If you were there...you'd probably have been shocked at how well all these characters behaved. There was some gentle ribbing (not to be confused with gentle rubbing)...but all in all everyone got along great, we laughed, we celebrated Iceman's birthday, we bowled, and most of us even had dinner together that night. My point is, if you met any of us in PERSON...you'd probably be surprised how 'normal' we actually are. And that's a downside to the internet...you read into things when sometimes that's not what people mean. I admit that I struggle with this concerning DHoff...my most outspoken critic on this site. Whenever I read his posts...I almost immediately take it personally because as I'm reading it...I'm imaging a certain "tone"...and that tone is negative. But, in fairness, maybe sometimes he's just trying to be jovial or funny. Maybe he's just trying to get along...and I'm reading too much into it.

As I've said before...what you guys see between me and Ice or Mike and Rob may seem like people that can't stand each other and are constantly bickering...but the underlying cause of that...as a person who has met all 3 of those gentlemen and considers them ALL friends...Iceman and I bicker because we're very similar. Mike and Rob bicker because they are very similar. None of will openly admit to that...I guess I sorta just did though...dammit...but we/they are. I hated when Ice left because it was boring without him. And I'd hate to see Mike or Rob leave because both of them have a great deal to offer bowlers and this site.

And what people tend to forget is...when I first got here...I argued like MAD with Rob. I had my own ideas...they differed with his...and we'd go at it all the time. But Rob decided to "break this horse" by simply meeting me when I went to Vegas and giving me a bowling lesson. Then, over time...my views and positions changed...I admit I was wrong about a LOT of things...Rob (and Mike and others) were right about a lot of those things...but sometimes we have to come to those conclusions over time...and those who are more experienced have to accept that newer bowlers aren't just going to do what you say, no questions asked. And if you feel like you can't take it if someone questions you or disagrees with you...well, like I said...the internet is probably not for you.

Well being a know it all tool isn't quite a troll and this board turned into the wildwest awhile back. So we kind of got some slide.

Like I said, if you think this site is bad...I can direct you to 20 other sites that make this look like a church site. Bowl1820 and I may disagree from time to time, but he does an above average job of keeping things civil and providing excellent content despite really being the only moderator the site has.

Mudpuppy Cliff notes: where's Mudpuppy these days??

[bowl1820]

Okay I think this thread has got de-railed enough so we'll end it.