Bowling Ball Progression Issues

[RobLV1]

"It's also probably not as important to you...but thats because you're unique (compared to most bowlers) in two MAJOR ways that will skew your research:

1) You tend to bowl with only one brand (Brunswick).
2) You tend to use only new releases (or newer releases).

I know you also test other manufacturer's balls and stuff...but I'm saying in GENERAL...you don't have to worry as much about variance from company to company or from years past until now."

While I do use Brunswick balls exclusively right now, I do observe the ball reactions of other bowlers using both newer and older equipment. The main things with the age of any balls are the changes in technology that have occurred since the balls introduction (known) and the number of games bowled on the ball in the past in relation to how well the ball has been maintained (not known).

By the way, you have just made a very valid point as to why it is in most bowler's best interests to use one, or at the most two brands exclusively. It makes it much easier to learn the differences between the balls in your arsenal without relying on a system that does not take into account the unknowns and try to assign a value based only on the knowns (Perfect Scale).

[Aslan]

By the way, you have just made a very valid point as to why it is in most bowler's best interests to use one, or at the most two brands exclusively. It makes it much easier to learn the differences between the balls in your arsenal without relying on a system that does not take into account the unknowns and try to assign a value based only on the knowns (Perfect Scale).

The problem with that is...which brand?

Had I started out with Columbia and just went 100% Columbia...I think I'd be struggling to average 170. Had I done what most everyone else does and just throw Storm...maybe I'd be averaging in the 180s a year or so ago. There are some people that still exclusively throw Ebonite and Track...why?? You've found a company that you like in Brunswick...I also think right now Brunswick is probably the best out there...but others claim Motiv...or Storm...or RotoGrip...and make valid arguments.

I probably won't switch to JUST ONE brand anytime soon. But my next 15lb arsenal is already put together and the 4 strike balls are Brunswick, 900Global, Brunswick, and Brunswick. So, hopefully that will help. I think after I retire this arsenal...my brief love affair with Columbia is dare I say at an end. Two different high performance balls and both hit weaker than a Brunswick Slingshot. That's not good.

[Amyers]

The problem with that is...which brand?

Had I started out with Columbia and just went 100% Columbia...I think I'd be struggling to average 170. Had I done what most everyone else does and just throw Storm...maybe I'd be averaging in the 180s a year or so ago. There are some people that still exclusively throw Ebonite and Track...why?? You've found a company that you like in Brunswick...I also think right now Brunswick is probably the best out there...but others claim Motiv...or Storm...or RotoGrip...and make valid arguments.

I probably won't switch to JUST ONE brand anytime soon. But my next 15lb arsenal is already put together and the 4 strike balls are Brunswick, 900Global, Brunswick, and Brunswick. So, hopefully that will help. I think after I retire this arsenal...my brief love affair with Columbia is dare I say at an end. Two different high performance balls and both hit weaker than a Brunswick Slingshot. That's not good.

I have never been a Colombia fan. I have had some teammates throw the Antics line and the Eruption line and they are ok but was never anything that made me turn my head to look at going down the lane or when they hit the pins. Of all the brands out there Colombia has always been my least favorite.

I don't know about the whole buy the one company thing unless they are handing out staffer positions then great but the line ups among a lot of the brands at times stink at some point. I'm a big storm/roto fan but I don't think I could build a lineup out of them right now that fit me great. I guess you could from Hammer since they keep 50 balls in their lineup. Brunswick actually looks pretty good at the moment as far as my game goes and they finally seem to have their act together on the bigger hooking stuff with the Mastermind series but I wasn't a fan of their high end stuff before that.

I felt like all the new storm/roto stuff has been for the power player set which is great but it leaves guys like me out. I hate to say it but if I was building today it would be Hammer or Brunswick with an outside shot to Motiv. I've seen some of the upper end 900 global stuff look really good but I can't find anyone who throws the midline lower line stuff to see it in action.

[Aslan]

Brunswick actually looks pretty good at the moment as far as my game goes and they finally seem to have their act together on the bigger hooking stuff with the Mastermind series but I wasn't a fan of their high end stuff before that.

I agree. Of tournament and competitive players, I'm seeing balls like the Guru series, Mastermind series, and Hyper Cell series. I have liked Brunswick since the Aura series...and I think the Mastermind series is about as good top to bottom as anything out there. Motiv has interesting balls but I just don't understand their specs and how all their balls fit together. And Rotogrip is great at the top...but even the pros throwing Storm/Rotogrip tend to go from the Hyper Cells to the IQ series because RotoGrip's mid-range stuff seems questionable. And I think a LOT of that is just too many ball releases. They went from releasing the Wrecker (which most people found disappointing) and suddenly there was the Outcry...then the Menace...then the Haywire....and it's just confusing as to where the hell all these balls are supposed to fit in a progression since they all seem to be so similar.

My only knock on Brunswick is the decision to make the balls in Mexico. I think that hurt them with the blue collar crowd especially...but even me, I almost would rather buy from Storm or Motiv where I know it's supporting American workers. And the other "knock" is like Rotogrip...too many ball releases. The Mastermind and Genius were very, very popular and very good performance...then they feel the need to release the Intellect and the Einstein and it just isn't clear how they all fit together. It used to be that a company would release a low level reactive ball...usually a pearl. Then they'd have a midrange, best out there right now is probably the IQ series from Storm...which is probably more in between mid and high performance. And the midrange would have a pearl, a hybrid, and a solid. Then there'd be the high performance/pro performance line...the Hyper Cells and Masterminds of the world...again...a pearl, a hybrid, and a solid....all the same cores.

But recently, it seems like the companies are just trying to release ANYTHING at 3-4 times during the year...thinking that if it's NEW...people will think it's better and they MUST have it. And the strategy tends to work. But it calls into question how much technology is actually advancing release to release. I had this debate with Rob before about "new technology"....I'll buy advancement in technology year to year or even every 6 months sometimes...but if Rotogrip releases a ball in September and then another in January...there's very little chance that in that 4 months...Rotogrip made a huge leap forwards in technology. Of matter of fact...if you did a study and could get the ball companies to release the information....you'd likely find that some of the releases are almost identical to previous releases. 900Global got that reputation when they started using old cores in new releases.

I actually had to laugh because I was bowling against a pro shop operator and he saw my Asylum and said, "wow...busting out the old Asylum huh?" And I'm thinking:

1) It's hardly "old". They were throwing it on the tour last season.
2) It's far and away Newer than anything else I've thrown since my Frantic that I used back in 2013.

[RobLV1]

There are two issues that you are not considering: the overall design concept of the brand, and what brands are made by the same manufacturers.

The cover material is the one factor in ball reaction that we have to go totally on what the manufacturer tells us, and what we see when others use the equipment. The biggest difference that can be easily seen is between Storm balls and Brunswick balls. Storm balls have long be known for their skid/snap reactions. Brunswick has long been known for their "rolley" qualities. These qualities are determined more by the cover materials being utilized than anything else. When Storm produces a ball that is supposed to be aggressive and early-rolling, it usually isn't around for long. When Brunswick makes an attempt to introduce a skid/snappy ball, it is usually quickly forgotten. In terms of these qualities, you need to choose a brand based on your own bowling style both physically and how you play the lanes. I can only talk about styles with which I am familiar: my own which is dominated by the fact that I am really trying to get better at playing more inside lines, and Brunswick is very good at reading the oil, and Aslan who is very speed-dominant, so Brunswick is also good choce for him.

The other factor to consider is what company makes which brands: Storm makes Storm and Roto Grip, and is now involved with Global. Brunswick makes Brunswick and DV8, as well as Radical. Ebonite makes Ebonite, Columbia, Hammer, and Track. Motiv makes only Motiv. If you are going to use multiple brands of equipment, you are probably better off choosing balls made by one manufacturer, as you will see more similarities in the the cover materials than if you cross over between manufacturers.

[Ptnomore]

My last Brunswick ball was the Wicked Siege. I LOVED that ball. Then it died. Or so we thought. I wanted to try Motiv so I picked up a Cruel Intent since it's numbers were very similar to the Wicked Siege, and I had it match drilled to the WS. It worked beautifully...until this season. New lane surface (synthetic from wood), new lane conditioner, having trouble finding a ball surface that works consistently.

In an effort to "try something" and not wanting to ruin the Cruel Intent, I pulled the Wicked back off the rack, and refinished it again using what I've learned over the last few years of finishing my own equipment. It's back from the dead. It's been a GREAT ball for me for the last couple of weeks, averaging 220 with it (198 league average). And I use a Hammer Nail Smoke and Fire for Game 3. Between The Brunswick and the Motive, I was trying Hammer stuff. Hammer worked well last year, but this year, the Taboo Jet Black and Arson Hybrid are having trouble finding spots in the line up.

It's odd that the old Wicked came back, and I do get LOTS of smart *** comments about the old purple ball on the High dollar mens league I'm in. But those comments die off as I start stringing the strikes together with it. It hits SO damn hard, just like I remember it used to.

The numbers matter. But it's not quite rocket science as I see it, to find that match up that works. Rocket science to me would indicate that there is a formula out there somewhere. But there seems to be just so much more that affects the ball reaction that can't be quantified like humidity, air temp, lane conditioner, lane machine maintenance, the types of balls the other bowlers are throwing, your skid on the approach (more or less sticky than a week ago, a day ago, an hour ago), pin setter maintenance (more and more at our house we're noticing pins out of place), etc.

[RobLV1]

In an effort to "try something" and not wanting to ruin the Cruel Intent,...

I once did a study of the ball reviews in BTM, and matematically calculated that over 60% of bowlers have to change the surface of a ball to get the best reaction for themselves! By changing the surface, you are not "ruining the ball," you are just changing the surface which, if you are smart, you will do before you ever throw it, as the OOB finish can NEVER be duplicated. Overthinking again? ...

[scottymoney]

As strictly a Motiv user I have pieced together an arsenal that I know the differences and can make good ball changes when I need to. What people miss most about comparing balls is the cover material differences (which do very by brand) but the one number all balls can be compared by is the RG numbers.

Also being a strictly Motiv guy, I have noticed the difference in oil absorption. Not sure how Motiv does it but the balls do not absorb oil like the Storm/Roto and Brunswick balls. As I have done oil extraction from all these brands, I have noticed I rarely get much out of the Motiv balls but the other brands I have to bake for at least an hour or 2. Although it has nothing to do with progression I find it interesting and see it as an advantage that the balls I use do not pick up and absorb the oil like the other brands.

[Tony]

My last Brunswick ball was the Wicked Siege. I LOVED that ball. Then it died. Or so we thought. I wanted to try Motiv so I picked up a Cruel Intent since it's numbers were very similar to the Wicked Siege, and I had it match drilled to the WS. It worked beautifully...until this season. New lane surface (synthetic from wood), new lane conditioner, having trouble finding a ball surface that works consistently.


It's odd that the old Wicked came back, and I do get LOTS of smart *** comments about the old purple ball on the High dollar mens league I'm in. But those comments die off as I start stringing the strikes together with it. It hits SO damn hard, just like I remember it used to.

Played against a guy last week throwing an Brunswick old purple ball, not sure if it was the same ball but he had a 700 !

[Ptnomore]

Played against a guy last week throwing an Brunswick old purple ball, not sure if it was the same ball but he had a 700 !

706 with a 247 and 248 games 2 and 3 for me last week.