Strokers Rant.. (about crankers)

[fordman1]

It is always odd how the better you throw it the luckier you get huh?

Throwing the ball hard with a ton of fingers isn't the same as throwing it better. There are some people who always get a break and others who never do.

[Aslan]

I could be considered this guy............the 3rd game is usually my best, probably because I have lost speed lol.

A lot of that depends on lane conditions. On drier conditions with the lanes breaking down...it gets tricky to keep the speed up and/or elevate speed without messing up the shot. And the more revs...the more the conditions are going to impact your shot. BUT...on wider/longer/heavier patterns...it could go the other way where once you tire...you start finding the pocket.

Ok but against a normal size, fit, thumbless bowler that understands how to play the game, not just chuck it and hope, you're toast without a boatload of handicap.

Fortunately finding a bowler that fits that description is like finding a unicorn...so it's neither here nor there.

If bowling thumbless was advantageous...you'd see far more of it on the tour than you do.

[Mike White]

A lot of that depends on lane conditions. On drier conditions with the lanes breaking down...it gets tricky to keep the speed up and/or elevate speed without messing up the shot. And the more revs...the more the conditions are going to impact your shot. BUT...on wider/longer/heavier patterns...it could go the other way where once you tire...you start finding the pocket.


Fortunately finding a bowler that fits that description is like finding a unicorn...so it's neither here nor there.

If bowling thumbless was advantageous...you'd see far more of it on the tour than you do.

It's an advantage on a walled up house condition where accuracy is less important, and back end motion (to carry crap) is more.

On the tour, accuracy is needed, but the additional back end movement of no thumb allows the bowler to be a little less accurate, and still competitive.


If you've put in 10 years of developing a standard release, and are close to the PBA level, then see J.B. winning with 2 hands, are you going to throw away those 10 years, and switch, or go with what has gotten you that far?

If you're just starting out and have seen J.B. winning with 2 hands, you may try to develop that technique, but it's going to be a good number of years before you reach PBA level of ability.

The future 2 handers are still in the incubation phase.

What hurts most youngsters trying to develop that level is the fact that the lane pattern (house) doesn't demand that level to score well.

It's difficult to mentally disconnect bowling well with scoring well while you are learning.

[Aslan]

Valid points...but I'd just again argue that many of the 2-handed bowlers that are in the incubation phase...will never see the PBA. What Belmo does is NOT as easy it looks. 2-handers think it's the key to scoring big...but it's ONLY the key to scoring big if you do it like Belmo...and nobody has mastered that except him...ever.

And we were talking thumbless...not 2-handed. How many thumbless bowlers are on the tour? One? How long have people been trying to bowl thumbless? Since Mark Roth?

Here's the problem with 2-handers and thumbless bowlers (begin Aslan rant #109)...and it's a very simple concept:

It's trying to skip ahead. It's taking a weakness in bowling and trying to exploit it. Rather than spend years to master bowling...they think they've found a "short cut". If you don't believe that...feel free to go to ANY bowling center during cosmic bowling and watch the kids and teenagers...they are either absolutely horrible girls throwing the ball in the gutter and laughing...or guys throwing 6lb balls thumbless to make them "hook". It's EASIER. It doesn't take time and lessons and practice. It just takes a light ball...a small amount of coordination...no physical requirement whatsoever...and you get rewarded with a higher strike rate.

Do I care? Not really. Once you've bowled in enough leagues or in tournaments or enough sweeps...you see the vast majority of these guys fall apart. Their weaknesses get exposed. And that's why they never make it to the PBA. You have to make spares. It's not "optional" at that level. And you can't just throw to a breakpoint and carry...not on sport patterns.

And I should be clear...my team tonight in my serious league...I bowl 4th and the guys bowling 3rd and 5th are both thumbless bowlers. One averages 10 pins less than me and the other 10 pins more than me. But, I'm better than either of em...and in 1-3 more years my average will show that. They can go on "runs" and I just can't keep up...but when they miss...and they DO miss...they get splits and washouts and some of the weirdest leaves ever. Sometimes they even dump the first shot in the gutter. And their spare shooting is anywhere from 60% to 80% tops. Corner pins...probably closer to 40-60%. And usually by Game 3...with the lanes breaking down...dry to start with...they start to tire...then they are bowling in the 140s-150s. They run out of room laterally and just can't keep the speed up to counter their rev rate.

[NewToBowling]

Here's the problem with 2-handers and thumbless bowlers (begin Aslan rant #109)...and it's a very simple concept:

It's trying to skip ahead. It's taking a weakness in bowling and trying to exploit it. Rather than spend years to master bowling...they think they've found a "short cut". If you don't believe that...feel free to go to ANY bowling center during cosmic bowling and watch the kids and teenagers...they are either absolutely horrible girls throwing the ball in the gutter and laughing...or guys throwing 6lb balls thumbless to make them "hook". It's EASIER. It doesn't take time and lessons and practice. It just takes a light ball...a small amount of coordination...no physical requirement whatsoever...and you get rewarded with a higher strike rate.

First of all you can't gather anything from cosmic bowlers. They are there for fun and have absolutely no care about getting better.

Second they play thumbless because that's the only way to hook house balls. Add to that the holes are not drilled for their hands so it's actually counter productive to be using a thumb hole where you have to hold onto the ball for dear life anyways.

I think it's easier to convert a thumbless house ball bowler to conventional than a house thumb bowler because you don't have the muscle memory of grabbing onto the ball with your thumb.

Most people don't want to master bowling. They want to hook the hell out of it and get strikes on house shots. Go to any league in any bowling alley and this is the mentality for 'most" league bowlers.

Only a very select few carry about the discussions going on these bowling boards (RG, pin distance, lane condition, etc)

[billf]

It's difficult to mentally disconnect bowling well with scoring well while you are learning.

Truest statement I've read/heard in many months

[RobLV1]

And usually by Game 3...with the lanes breaking down...dry to start with...they start to tire...then they are bowling in the 140s-150s. They run out of room laterally and just can't keep the speed up to counter their rev rate.

You are referring to the wrong class of bowlers. Last year I watched Johnny Petraglia Jr. shoot a very high series (800?) throwing an original Lt 48 rubber ball thumbless. Last summer I watched him bowl an 1106 series (four games), thumb in, with an aggressive reactive ball. It's not the style that is in question, it's the calibre of the bowler. There are great bowlers thumb in, and there are great bowlers, thumb out.

[Amyers]

I know what aslan is talking about I bowl with a few of those guys who's line looks like 234-188-140 but not all thumbless bowlers are that way. I bowl with a thumbless guy doesn't actually hook the ball that much probably has 19-20 mph speed heck of a bowler and spare shooter. They do seem rarer than talented thumb in bowlers or even talented two handers but they are out there.

[Aslan]

You are referring to the wrong class of bowlers. Last year I watched Johnny Petraglia Jr. shoot a very high series (800?) throwing an original Lt 48 rubber ball thumbless. Last summer I watched him bowl an 1106 series (four games), thumb in, with an aggressive reactive ball. It's not the style that is in question, it's the calibre of the bowler. There are great bowlers thumb in, and there are great bowlers, thumb out.

Again....I'm not saying you can't be successful bowling thumbless. You also can be successful bowling up the 2nd arrow with your hand up the side of the ball...throwing a urethane ball with very little angle. Hell...you can bowl well walking backwards towards the foul line (many videos on Youtube). The question is (and this was beaten to death during the spare ball debates 1-1024)...if it's such a great style/strategy...why do so few at the highest level adopt/use said strategy?? Johnny Petraglia is a great bowler...no doubt. But there's a reason he's not on the National Tour (PBA). Earl Anthony and WRW are the greatest bowlers ever...but I've found ZERO coaches that would teach a bowler to bowl like either Earl Anthony or WRW.

The true thumbless bowler on my team...he's been struggling. The consistency with that style is tough for the average bowler. The anchor actually doesn't truly bowl "thumbless". His thumb is actually in the ball...but only up to the first knuckle. So he's found a style where he can combine the angle/power of a thumbless release...with the more consistent and controllable style of having your thumb in the ball. And while I can occasionally beat him...every night he usually has a slightly higher series than me. His spare shooting isn't as good....but better than the true thumbless bowler....but his strike rate is better than mine.

[Gutternut]

The anchor actually doesn't truly bowl "thumbless". His thumb is actually in the ball...but only up to the first knuckle. So he's found a style where he can combine the angle/power of a thumbless release...with the more consistent and controllable style of having your thumb in the ball. And while I can occasionally beat him...every night he usually has a slightly higher series than me. His spare shooting isn't as good....but better than the true thumbless bowler....but his strike rate is better than mine.

I get what you're saying, bowling is about consistency.

Curious about your thumbless teammate who uses his thumb..........what is his span? Is it close to a conventional drill or fitted like your span would be? I can see myself trying to adopt this.