How much coaching is needed

[Tony]

I'm in Queens. The coach I'm using was recommended by the AMF desk guy, he trained many here. At my other alley, I was recommended to use a PBA pro. He charges $50 an hour, I don't know any other coaches.

Here is a link to coaches if it let's me paste : http://www.bowlny.com/find_a_coach.php

[JasonNJ]

I'm in Queens. The coach I'm using was recommended by the AMF desk guy, he trained many here. At my other alley, I was recommended to use a PBA pro. He charges $50 an hour, I don't know any other coaches.

When I was younger and just a casual bowler, I bowled in Queens a few time. The 2 bowling alleys I remember at Jib Lanes and 34th Lanes. I think they are both still around.


Anyway, there are so many videos on YouTube that you can watch that have been really helpful for me. One of my favorite one is Norm Duke and his Next Level bowling videos. Also USBC Bowling Academy has some pretty good videos. They have a subscription site which is $34.99 for the whole year although a lot of the videos from the site is already on YouTube.


But if you really want live coaching you could try this. http://www.bowl.com/findacoach/

[AlexNC]

Re: the USBC Academy videos...if you sign up for their email list they will send offers for discounts on the subscription. I was fortunate to get the subscription for 9.99 for the whole year. They have a huge library of videos targetted to various skill levels. Well worth the money.

[Amyers]

12 lessons over 3 months is not insane that's about once a week. I've personally never had a coach (can't find a qualified one in my area) but my daughter has they work together every 3 or 4 weeks. It gives her time to work on what the coach has imparted. Watching online videos and recording yourself is helpful but I can't believe it's anywhere near as beneficial as a real live experienced coach watching you.

[GeoLes]

Another coaching session can help. Ask for checkpoints in your game to focus on. Ask for drills that will help you focus on that part of your game to form good habits. You can also go to sources like Slowinski or Kegel for isolation drills.

When you bowl for practice, don't just bowl, practice deliberately. Identify one or two areas of practice for that session. For me that makes up 80% of practice session time. The last 20% is for integration of what you practiced. Just bowl and note how you have integrated what you just practiced, not just on how well you score.

[Aslan]

You can certainly attain a higher average on your own and many bowlers have never taken a lesson. You might get a little better or you might become a 200 plus average bowler on your own. The difference is in how much natural talent and athletic skill you have.
You can / will always get some random advice or coaching, it might be very good or not so good depending on the person. The advantage with coaching is you get someone who has been trained on teaching the correct forms and techniques so you will stay on track and raise your average faster and stop bad habits earlier.
If you want to do the best you possible can in the shortest time, coaching will help, if you're content with going out and having fun while averaging 140 or 150 coaching might not be money well spent. That's my take on it anyway.
(since you are here it would suggest you aren't content with just having fun, you want to score well too)

I misread your coaching / thought you said 3 lessons over 12 months. As other have suggested that's quite a lot of coaching already. I would probably go with the suggestion to post some video here and let some of the coaches look at it.

Tony is spot on. Like I've said many, many times...bowling success is just like dating...it's all about your expectations. Most bowlers (WAY more than 90%) are perfectly fine bowling around 150-160, handicap leagues, beer drinking leagues, no-tap tourneys, and an occasional 200+ game to validate their efforts. Mark Baker once told me that he sees relatively few bowlers that average in the 140-160 range because they get to that level where they bowl a 200 game each week or an occasional 600 series and think, "I guess I've figured this game out...I just need to repeat what I did when I rolled that high score (whatever that was)". Horrible bowlers know they are horrible and if they want to change that they have no choice but to seek out coaching. Good bowlers know that they aren't actually that good and require help (coaching) to get better.

So;
#1: What are you expectations concerning bowling? What are your goals? What are your dreams? What are you willing to do to achieve those goals/dreams?

There's NOTHING wrong with just wanting to bowl for fun and get an occasional 200 game. I'd quit bowling if that was my fate...but others would consider that perfectly fine and meet their expectations.

I DISAGREE with the folks that think you can get significantly better without coaching. There are SO many moving parts to bowling....and SO many things that you are currently doing incorrectly (without even seeing you bowl)...that trying to watch videos and emulate players and take random advice....you're going to end up taking a very slow and painful path towards mediocracy. A coach is valuable, especially in bowling, because you're seeing the same person over and over and they are seeing you progress and keeping you on track and keeping you focused on certain things while not letting/encouraging you to get distracted with other bowling-related things that would take you off track.

And I can say that without second guessing because I actually tried that approach. I get advice from anyone and everyone...I searched out videos...I tried emulating this player or that player...I read books...I did it ALL. And I would never have broken 175 using that approach indefinitely. I could have gotten to the low 170s on my own...but that's about it. Coaching fixed a LOT of things that I was doing that I didn't even know I was doing. And it kept me focused on things like timing, stance, approach...rather than me focusing all my effort on release or ball technology.

Now...12 lessons in 3 months is nutty. For one simple reason...you need to space out your lessons to give you ample time to practice what you learn and apply it to league situations. If you are getting a lesson, bowl once, then get another lesson...obviously you're not going to have had time to really master what you learned the week before.

I suggest finding the highest level coach you can...I'd recommend a PBA Pro (National Tour, PWBA, or PBA50, not necessarily a regional pro because that could be hit or miss) OR if one is not available (which would be shocking given you're in New York/East Coast)...try to find at LEAST a silver level USBC coach. Bronze level is hit or miss. Bowling has an interesting tiered coaching system because each level is monumentally harder to get than the previous level. So, junior coaching certification...simple. Take a 4-hour class, get cleared to work with kids, take a basic bowling test and you're done. Bronze is a bit harder, but relatively easy and cost effective. Silver takes much more time and energy and money. Gold is virtually impossible. Unfortunately, that leads to an environment where there are virtually no Gold level coaches, finding a silver level coach is difficult, and finding a bronze level coach is very easy.

I'd THEN recommend a bi-weekly, tri-weekly, or monthly appointment with that coach.

That's my 12 cents.

Mudpuppy Cliff Notes: Apparently someone doesn't have The Gift?

[billf]

The difference between and Silver and Gold coach: Gold requires to demonstrate the ability to run a pro shop and bowling center. It's suppose to be the PhD of coaching but there are no seminars or clinics to obtain this level. You go in front of a board of Gold coaches in Arlington, answer questions, give three lessons, fit and drill a ball with them watching. All for the current low, low proce of $800 plus transportation and lodging. That folks is why there is less than 30 Gold coaches worldwide.
I want to coach period. I have zero desire to run a center. I don't work in a pro shop so I will also have to attend a certified pro shop course (Turbo, Jayhawk, Powerhouse) adding an additional few grand to my total. I received the Gold workbork when I applied and became a Gold coach candidate. Very disappointed with the criteria personally.

[NYMIKE]

When I was younger and just a casual bowler, I bowled in Queens a few time. The 2 bowling alleys I remember at Jib Lanes and 34th Lanes. I think they are both still around.


Anyway, there are so many videos on YouTube that you can watch that have been really helpful for me. One of my favorite one is Norm Duke and his Next Level bowling videos. Also USBC Bowling Academy has some pretty good videos. They have a subscription site which is $34.99 for the whole year although a lot of the videos from the site is already on YouTube.


But if you really want live coaching you could try this. http://www.bowl.com/findacoach/

34th Avenue is still there, it's now owned by AMF, I bowl over there. I also bowl in Astoria Lanes. Jib is running, never been there, we also have Whitestone (24 hrs, bowled there once in the late 90s) and an alley on Rockaway Blvd, never bowled there, that's Queens.

[NYMIKE]

Tony is spot on. Like I've said many, many times...bowling success is just like dating...it's all about your expectations. Most bowlers (WAY more than 90%) are perfectly fine bowling around 150-160, handicap leagues, beer drinking leagues, no-tap tourneys, and an occasional 200+ game to validate their efforts. Mark Baker once told me that he sees relatively few bowlers that average in the 140-160 range because they get to that level where they bowl a 200 game each week or an occasional 600 series and think, "I guess I've figured this game out...I just need to repeat what I did when I rolled that high score (whatever that was)". Horrible bowlers know they are horrible and if they want to change that they have no choice but to seek out coaching. Good bowlers know that they aren't actually that good and require help (coaching) to get better.

So;
#1: What are you expectations concerning bowling? What are your goals? What are your dreams? What are you willing to do to achieve those goals/dreams?

There's NOTHING wrong with just wanting to bowl for fun and get an occasional 200 game. I'd quit bowling if that was my fate...but others would consider that perfectly fine and meet their expectations.

I DISAGREE with the folks that think you can get significantly better without coaching. There are SO many moving parts to bowling....and SO many things that you are currently doing incorrectly (without even seeing you bowl)...that trying to watch videos and emulate players and take random advice....you're going to end up taking a very slow and painful path towards mediocracy. A coach is valuable, especially in bowling, because you're seeing the same person over and over and they are seeing you progress and keeping you on track and keeping you focused on certain things while not letting/encouraging you to get distracted with other bowling-related things that would take you off track.

And I can say that without second guessing because I actually tried that approach. I get advice from anyone and everyone...I searched out videos...I tried emulating this player or that player...I read books...I did it ALL. And I would never have broken 175 using that approach indefinitely. I could have gotten to the low 170s on my own...but that's about it. Coaching fixed a LOT of things that I was doing that I didn't even know I was doing. And it kept me focused on things like timing, stance, approach...rather than me focusing all my effort on release or ball technology.

Now...12 lessons in 3 months is nutty. For one simple reason...you need to space out your lessons to give you ample time to practice what you learn and apply it to league situations. If you are getting a lesson, bowl once, then get another lesson...obviously you're not going to have had time to really master what you learned the week before.

I suggest finding the highest level coach you can...I'd recommend a PBA Pro (National Tour, PWBA, or PBA50, not necessarily a regional pro because that could be hit or miss) OR if one is not available (which would be shocking given you're in New York/East Coast)...try to find at LEAST a silver level USBC coach. Bronze level is hit or miss. Bowling has an interesting tiered coaching system because each level is monumentally harder to get than the previous level. So, junior coaching certification...simple. Take a 4-hour class, get cleared to work with kids, take a basic bowling test and you're done. Bronze is a bit harder, but relatively easy and cost effective. Silver takes much more time and energy and money. Gold is virtually impossible. Unfortunately, that leads to an environment where there are virtually no Gold level coaches, finding a silver level coach is difficult, and finding a bronze level coach is very easy.

I'd THEN recommend a bi-weekly, tri-weekly, or monthly appointment with that coach.

That's my 12 cents.

Mudpuppy Cliff Notes: Apparently someone doesn't have The Gift?

My expectations and desires are be much better than 160 bowler, for about a 2 week stretch I was a 160 bowler than slipped, is 200 realistic? When I began lifting I read that anyone training can achieve a 300 lb bench 400 lb squat 500 lb deadlift drug free. It took me 17 years to bench 300. Not sure if 200 average is realistic, but I have 15 games of 200, so why not?

[Aslan]

That folks is why there is less than 30 Gold coaches worldwide.

That is what I was getting at. I like the USBC's system of levels and differentiating. I think without the levels...it's hard for the average student to differentiate and it's hard for better coaches to charge more. BUT...by making bronze worthless and Gold impossible or too much effort/expense to get for what you get out of it...it makes the levels less meaningful and less informative.

Based on my experiences, I'd recommend a system that takes into account the many elements of modern bowling and makes the levels more meaningful. For example:

BRONZE: Any bowler that;
- Takes the USBC Bronze level class
- Holds a PBA card and has cashed in at least one event in the past 3 years OR;
- Holds a degree (associates or higher) in education.

SILVER: Any bowler that;
- Attains Bronze level certification at any time during their lifetime.
- Holds a PBA card and has cashed in at least three events in the past 9 years
- Passes the Silver level certification class*.

* Those with a degree in education would take a 2-day class. Those without a degree in education would take a 3-4 day class.

GOLD Level certification: Any bowler that;
- holds a SILVER certification AND;
- has won at least one Major title (PBA, PWBA, PBA50, USBC Open/Masters, WBTA champion).
- passes the Gold certification class.

And an important element of silver and gold classes would be ball specifications, ball drilling, ball technology, etc... as well as a thorough understanding of patterns, lane conditions, and a general understanding of how the various bowling equipment (ball returns, oil machines, scoring systems, pinsetters, etc...) works.

I think a system like that addresses a lot of the problems with our current system; specifically it combines the 3 necessary elements of a good bowling coach (in no particular order):

- Success and demonstrated bowling ability
- An understanding of education and HOW to teach various age groups
- An understanding of how technology plays a crucial part in the modern game

I think too many coaches nowadays lack those last two elements. There are a LOT of bronze coaches that bowl well...but they don't know how to "teach" and they can't really explain differences in balls like coverstocks, core dynamics, drilling layouts, etc... And that's FINE. But there should be levels above Bronze where you pay a little more and get a coach that you KNOW (by nature of their certification) that they have an education background and you know that they've reached a very high level in the sport in terms of performance AND have at least a solid understanding of modern equipment.

Thoughts?