In League Play When Do You Change To Another Ball?

[bowl1820]

I'm thinking the key words in that paragraph were "long" and "ago" because everything I've read or watched since 2013 and multiple coaches have unanimously agreed says that you don't adjust off a bad shot. If I'm trying to hit 2nd arrow and the ball sticks on my hand and I throw it up and it hits the ceiling...I'm not "balling down" to my next weaker ball or going out to my car to try the urethane ball in the trunk.

Well...actually in that situation I was "balling UP" (get it? the ball went up?)...joke.

And sure...you might use a different ball because your's has a thumbhole too small or is stuck in the ceiling... ...but you shouldn't go to another ball because that one "isn't giving you a good line or good carry." How do you even know if the ball goes in the gutter or you yank the shot left?

You gotta hit your mark and have a decent release. Maybe not down to the board...or the "perfect" release/post...but it's gotta be close.

While maybe not a exact case of Reductio ad absurdum, you are taking the idea to a absurd extreme to try and discount it. You have to use some common sense (Though common sense and bowlers don't usually go hand in hand.) in each situation.

The point of the idea was, if you wait until everything is "just so" before you make some kind of change. You've most likely going to wait too long for that change to help.

It's like the bowler who starts the night playing their favorite line, their hitting the pocket and leaving 10 pins the first few frames and they just keep playing that line.

Someone told them onetime when that happens "You have the right line! Don't change anything! Just keep playing it until the lanes come around and you'll start striking." (I actually had that told to me in the past and I've heard that several times since over the years.)

If you do that, you'll wind up waiting too long to make a change that might help or that might not. It will be tenth frame and you lost or your pins under and don't make the cut.

Making a change (even if you're not making good shots.) and even if it doesn't help, gives you more information to work with.

And sometimes if your making bad shots and you make a change either ball, line, whatever. You'll wind up making better shots, because of it. Because that change forces you to do something different.

If you watch during league, you can see examples of this.

A Bowler will make their first shot, their swing, release is way off. But then they'll shoot a spare, they'll have a textbook swing & release doing it. It's because they made a change that forced them to do something different.

I've seen many bowlers throwing bad first shots and what would be great strike shots when shooting spares, but they won't try that shot for a strike.

Why? Because "I'm just making bad shots and I don't know if changing will work and I don't want to waste a frame"

Their wasting frames now.

[Tony]

I bowl in 2 leagues on the same lanes at the same house so other than how / if they oiled them is the major difference.
I have been starting with my benchmark ball and have 2 other balls available, one is stronger ball and the other weaker.
I will consider switching balls if the lane conditions are different and my benchmark ball is skidding too long or turning too early. I would also consider switching if after several adjustments the ball is not carrying on good pocket hits hoping a change in the line will allow better carry.

[Mike White]

While maybe not a exact case of Reductio ad absurdum

No an exact case??? It's NOWHERE close.

Reductio ad absurdum

If you are trying to prove something is true, then assume it is false. If that using proper logic, leads to a contradiction, then the assumption is proven false.

Likewise if you are trying to prove something is false, then assume it is true. Again contraction would prove it assumption is false.

Now about making adjustments...

Bowling is about gathering information.

If you release the ball well, but miss your mark, you gather information about what would happen if you changed your line to that which you just mistakenly played.

However, if you release the ball bad, you only gather information about what would happen if you release the ball bad the same way again.

From the bad shot, you gain no information indicating that you should change the line you will attempt to play next time up on that lane.

At best, you gain information indicating that you need to practice more so you can repeat your shots better.

Changing balls is based on when the hook phase begins, and ends.

If it begins too early, you need either to find more oil, or switch to less rough surface ball.

If it begins too late, you either need to hit the dry area of the lane sooner, or use a more roughed up ball.

If the hook phase ends too early, need either a higher RG ball, or a more polished surface.

If the hook phase ends too late, lower RG, or rougher surface.

Most likely if the hook phase is ending too late, it's also starting too late.

[bowl1820]

No an exact case??? It's NOWHERE close.

Reductio ad absurdum

Okay so I used the term wrong, Big whoop. I think Sheldon used it wrong in the BBT too.

One thing I knew when I wrote that term, you would comment on it.

[foreverincamo]

I didn't go thru all the replies, but just want to put in what I do. Where I bowl it's a league of mostly guys between 40 to 65, with a few young guns. Very few crackers. I start with my benchmark ball, my Hammer Black Widow Legend, and some nights I never move more than 5 boards laterally. The nights that I do, we're playing the young guns who eat up the oil. I'll switch to either my DV8 Thug or my Brunswick Vintage Gold Rhino Pro. I do this to stay where I like to play longer. If they are really dry, I go to my Brunswick Ringer a Platinum Pearl that I keep polished big-time.
I can play the deep inside line. I just prefer not to if my equipment allows me to stay right.

[Aslan]

I'm thinking more than "kinda high." The bottom line that you apparently missed is that strategies are great as long as they are not preconceptions; kinda like you holding on to the whole progression thing come hell or high water.

You picked a time to spar with me on this that...due to recent poor performance....hath weekend my position.

But like I've said before...your "non-preconceived notions" ideas about lines, lanes, and line-ups (Rob's 3 "L"s)...while I TOTALLY AGREE that at LEAST that COULD be the best way to approach it...I'd even give you 80-90% chance that at least in terms of the theory...it is preferable to pre-conceived notions. The glaring deficiency in that theory is that there is absolutely NO WAY that you could implement it more than at MOST 4% of the time. Why? Because you get 5-15 minutes of practice before league play...and...

1) You have to start throwing good shots (not perfect Bowl1820). Most bowlers don't throw 100% good shots after putting their shoes on and climbing up on the approach.
2) You have to wait in lines of 2-9 people to also practice.
3) You have to deal with the most common warm-up annoyance that nobody knows what the etiquette is so some people take two shots and some people take 1 shot, and some people reset the rack before they shoot, and others reset to the 2nd ball before throwing, and so on and so forth.
4) You need to be at the center on time.
5) During that time, you also need to evaluate your "line". Some would suggest trying 2-3 different lines.
6) You need to that on both lanes without the preconception that the lanes will play the same (2nd "L").

You now should go to your 2-5 ball arsenal and proceed to try the next ball, all lines, both lanes. Then the next ball... And in the meantime, you have to hope the conditions haven't changed due to the warm-up (without the preconception that it hasn't).

In other words, while your system provides the most accurate data which in theory would be the most useful data...it requires so much data collection...that eve if you were bowling against a no-show and only you and one other bowler on your team showed up and she "never practices" (because girls are weird like that)...you STILL couldn't gather that much data in that short of time frame.

So, my MudPuppy Cliff Note Suggestion for a future article is how to take that non-preconceived theory (which is sound) and convert it into an actual, useful, pre-league ritual that can be done in 10 minutes (roughly 4-8 shots) by an amateur bowler (that cannot throw more than 80% "good shots"...now you're at 2-7 shots).

And I'm a perfect example. I would LOVE a way to know what ball I SHOULD throw on league night. Sometimes I'm POSITIVE I have the wrong ball in my hand for a shot...but I have no real ability to figure out WHY it's a bad ball. We saw this in Vegas when I switched from my solids to your Jab. I moved inside (which seemed opposite based on me hitting light) and balled down from what I'd consider a 1st/2nd progression ball to a #4-#5 ball (which also seemed opposite to ball down when hitting light)....BUT...it worked. So even though I KNOW it and I've SEEN it...I still can't explain it...I still can't figure out how to adopt it to a system that can actually be used to help find the "right" ball or line.

Mudpuppy Cliff Notes: "My bowling ball selection is like a guy at a carnival game. I know the games are rigged and that I can't win...but I keep playing."

If you do that, you'll wind up waiting too long to make a change that might help or that might not. It will be tenth frame and you lost or your pins under and don't make the cut.

I get what you're saying Bowl1820. We'll leave bad shots out of it because one person's "bad" is another person's "adequate". But if you look at the concept that you adjust based on something other than how the ball/shot actually performs....you're kind've talking about a system I heard of once regarding moving 2:1 left after 8 straight strikes. Now keep in mind, when I mentioned that and thought it was interesting...most people more in line with Rob's non-preconceptions theory claimed that was an absolutely horrible idea and some actually did respond that you don't move when everything is working...others mentioned that it's a preconceived "system" that could never work...etc, etc.. So even if you were right that you could adjust based on something other than the ball's performance/shot...for it to be of any use would require some type of pre-conceived "system" that the bowler could use to move regardless of the outcome of the shot. So what would that "system" be?

For example (a more realistic one);

I strike pocket, I leave a flat 10, I strike pocket, I pull the shot and strike brooklyn. Do I move inside because I just struck left of the headpin? Crazy examples of balls hitting the ceiling aside...if I am pretty sure I made a bad shot...and that line seemed to be working...I would NOT move 3:2 inside on the next shot. And it's also unusual that I'd go from hitting pocket to hitting all the way on the other side of the headpin in just one frame....so it's probably the shot and not the lanes.

So what do the "experts" recommend you look for in a shot...EVEN A SHOT THAT STRIKES....as indications that a move may be appropriate??
1) If you make a good shot and it strikes...but you watch the ball exit more towards the 8-pin (for righties)...you know that you may (this frame or next) need to move left 1-2 boards with your feet and 1 board with your target.
2) If you make a good shot and it strikes...but the ball exits the pin deck closer to the 9-pin...you know that you're hitting a bit light. You probably are on a good line...but may need just a bit more hand...a bit less speed...or maybe even that the ball is burning up and losing energy before entering the roll phase.

THOSE are the BEST indicators of when a bowler should move or should not move because in both those examples...you're making a good, consistent shot...AND you're striking and scoring well....but you also are getting information that will help you keep striking.

THAT was the argument I was trying to make with my crazy example...maybe nor so effectively and I apologize for that.

[bowl1820]

I get what you're saying Bowl1820. We'll leave bad shots out of it because one person's "bad" is another person's "adequate". But if you look at the concept that you adjust based on something other than how the ball/shot actually performs.

Well, I don't think you are quite following what I was trying say.

I'm not saying anything about basing specific adjustments on a bad shot.

Just that sometimes, if your not getting the results you want. You should just go ahead and make a change of some kind, Because a lot of times if you wait until your meeting some specific criteria to decide on some specific change to make based on that criteria. You wind up waiting too long for it to do you any good.

[RobLV1]

Aslan: That is one of the scariest posts that I've ever seen. I'll try to answer some of your questions/concerns tomorrow after a good night's sleep.

[Aslan]

Aslan: That is one of the scariest posts that I've ever seen. I'll try to answer some of your questions/concerns tomorrow after a good night's sleep.

Well, it IS almost Halloween. So, scary posts ARE festive and appropriate.

I just want to know simply how you use the theory you seem to be advocating when you are constricted to 2-7 warm-up shots pre-league. I have a "feeling", you're going to say that there must be some preconceptions at some point because I don't see how a person can make all those decisions without some type of preconception. For someone like me...that preconception is something like a ball progression. For others, they may bring certain balls to certain houses (and not others).

But remember, when you're answering...I don't think it's fair to simply add time in terms of practice or getting to the lanes earlier. Realize, league conditions available to practice on are rare, rare, rare. Sure, you could get to the lanes a game early and bowl a game on beat up conditions just to get the cobwebs out...but if you're trying to make determinations on which ball to use...the difference between practice conditions and league conditions is ridiculously different.

[RobLV1]

Well, it IS almost Halloween. So, scary posts ARE festive and appropriate.

I just want to know simply how you use the theory you seem to be advocating when you are constricted to 2-7 warm-up shots pre-league. I have a "feeling", you're going to say that there must be some preconceptions at some point because I don't see how a person can make all those decisions without some type of preconception. For someone like me...that preconception is something like a ball progression. For others, they may bring certain balls to certain houses (and not others).

But remember, when you're answering...I don't think it's fair to simply add time in terms of practice or getting to the lanes earlier. Realize, league conditions available to practice on are rare, rare, rare. Sure, you could get to the lanes a game early and bowl a game on beat up conditions just to get the cobwebs out...but if you're trying to make determinations on which ball to use...the difference between practice conditions and league conditions is ridiculously different.

While we only get a few warm-up shots, there is a plethora of information that is available to us during all of the shots (not just ours, but everyone who is warming up on the pair). Watching the ball motion on every shot will tell you volumes, as will noticing where the other bowlers are playing the lanes. Once you start understanding the real differences between bowling balls, I think that you'll find that ten minutes of practice provides plenty of information to give you a good start to the night.