Training isn't shoot to kill it's shoot to disarm or until the subject is subdued.Originally Posted by fordman1
You missed my point again. I never said at any point people should not be charged for their crimes, did I? I do not live with a chip on my shoulder, I am not one of those black people that do because I know the difference you speak of. I don't live in the "black candy land" that you think exsit because you don't experience inequality on your end. The BLM does live in reality. They protest these unarmed shootings because they are not educated in law enforcement. People don't know that black men are truly harrased more ,than any other race, by police. I've experienced it so I can't speak on it. I agree about the passing of hate but I don't agree on reverse rascim. Its What people think based on perception is it racism. What they don't know is its about being pro-black not anti-white. Let's have a break down of everything you mentioned also. Raw deal because of slavery? No, inequality is real. Businesses ran by white men/ women tend to remain that way not always due to a form of rascim but because of letting those closes to them like family & friends get first dibs regardless of qualifications. Which is why affirmative action was created. That didn't just exist for the wall Street jobs but for government and Union jobs. If anyone disrespects you, you put them in their place is what we are taught, just as anyone else would. I'm not sure if you realise what you just said either " if a white man disrespects you feel free to put them in their place and hope he doesn't have a gun"....WHAT? So what I can take from that is, a white man can disrespect someone and knowone should put them in their place? See how that can be taken wrong? As for money, I'm not sure if you are aware blacks lost half of their wealth in 07 with the recession, hints why we are the slowest to recover till this day and this is a fact. As I said blacks are for a fact harrased by police more than any other race. So understand it ain't all excuses as you so think. As in regards for Obama being the most reverse racist person in office. I'm pretty sure your not the only person to believe that considering he is the first black president and speaking out against violence against blacks is not a bad thing. It's just seen that way because he's black. Nobody says anything about deblasio doing it because he's white. You see how it works? It's not fiction it's reality. Whether you choose to except it or not.So I make the assumption, based on knowledge of economics, that demand and other factors are far more impactful on business decisions than taxes. You list all those factors and then claim the tax issue is unclear but obviously I have no clue since I've never ran a business of my own. You did nothing but prove my point...and make me wonder if your business owning experience might not have been that great because if you think tax increases are the part of your balance sheet you need to focus most of your effort on...that calls into question your business ownership skills.
I'm not trying to be mean, but it's not even CLOSE. You're making one statement that taxes are a huge part of business owners making their business decisions...yet other than a gas tax affecting transportation companies....it's an absurd premise.
My term "black candy land" was used to illustrate that blacklivesmatter is not living in "reality". Like many african Americans, there is this "chip on the shoulder" that has been passed on to them by their family and community and lack of diversity growing up. Just like redneck hillbillies that grow up hating black people even though they've never met one. It's reverse racism...but in this country we allow and in some ways celebrate reverse racism. As long as Al Sharpton, one of the most racist individuals in the country, has his own talk show on MSNBC...that speaks volumes.
The REALITY....is that 99.5% (or more) of cops preserve and protect. They provide a valuable service and every one of us that finds ourselves in peril....hope that we can count on them to respond and assist us. It is not REALITY...to assume that because a handful of people with cell phones have taken video of occasional events...that cops are generally on some mission to gun down every innocent black person in the country is ABSURD. It's NOT reality.
Did anyone ever apologize to Darren Wilson for ruining his career and screwing up his life due to the Ferguson incident? Doesn't Obama and Eric Cantor (also one of the most reverse-racist people to ever hold office) owe him an apology? Doesn't the continuing chanting of "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" only serve to make the overall message/point ridiculous? Chanting a slogan born out of a lie? Why were no people prosicuted regarding making false statements and filing false police reports during the M. Brown shooting? Why was his father/father-in-law not prosecuted for inciting a riot by screaming into the microphone that people should burn the city to the ground? Why is it Martha Stewart lied about a stock deal and goes to jail, but Brown's hooligan friend that was an accomplice to theft, assault on a police officer, fleeing the scene of a crime, then making false statements to police....yet he's never been arrested and charged with anything.
See, you live in "black candy land" because you don't see any of that as a problem. To you, the problem will always be white people and the raw deal blacks got dealt due to slavery. And there's now way out of that...no way for the country to move forward....because no matter how much progress we make (i.e. 1/2 black President)....there will still be people claiming the MAN is out to get them...telling their kids if a white person disrespects you, feel free to put him in his place (and hope he doesn't have a gun). If you don't get a job, it's racism. If you have no money, it's racism. If a cop pulls you over, it's racism. Must be nice to always have a good excuse for every single thing that goes wrong.
100% agree given that criminals tend to immediately change their gun policies when new gun laws are passed.
Last edited by Hot_pocket; 02-19-2016 at 01:19 AM.
In my bag: Roto Grip Haywire, Ebonite Cyclone Gamebreaker, Brunswick danger zone vintage, Brunswick C-system Maxxed out and Columbia WD. High Game 300 (x3) high series 790...still searching for the 800.
Training isn't shoot to kill it's shoot to disarm or until the subject is subdued.
In my bag: Roto Grip Haywire, Ebonite Cyclone Gamebreaker, Brunswick danger zone vintage, Brunswick C-system Maxxed out and Columbia WD. High Game 300 (x3) high series 790...still searching for the 800.
The suing thing isn't something new actually. There was a story once of someone breaking into a home and they fell through the skylight and won a lawsuit against the home owners for injuring himself. I have tons of inmates looking for ways to get a lawsuit out of the county I work for. Aslan as for al sharpton most black people don't like him. He's a scumbag who gets rich off of the pain of others. There was a family who told him not to show up to show support for their son who was killed by police.
Last edited by Hot_pocket; 02-19-2016 at 01:38 AM.
In my bag: Roto Grip Haywire, Ebonite Cyclone Gamebreaker, Brunswick danger zone vintage, Brunswick C-system Maxxed out and Columbia WD. High Game 300 (x3) high series 790...still searching for the 800.
I'm not saying racism doesn't exist. I've seen it first hand and it's an embarrassment to me as a white person. I also am not 100% against affirmative action for many of the reasons you raised. I AM against the way affirmative action is being applied to graduate school admissions...but that's a minor issue.
But for every incident where a black person is being harassed unnecessarily, how many incidents occur where the officers 'harass' a black person and find out that they are breaking the law? I'm gonna say a lot. You can disagree....but look at nearly every case that has occurred...in each case where the person was shot, they were committing a crime. And I guess that's where the divide is for me. I have no problem with affirmative action bridging the gap between slavery and equality. I have no problem with reforming the justice system to ensure criminals who committed the same crimes are not sentenced differently. BUT...I completely disagree with BLM that we should decriminalize things like B&E, loitering, and drug possession....because those are just reasons white officers use to harass black people.
Trayvon Martin wasn't shot for being in a white neighborhood. He was shot for attacking and assaulting someone who happened to be armed.
Mike Brown wasn't shot because he was black. He was shot because he assaulted a store clerk, stole items from a store, was walking in the middle of the street, and when confronted attacked a police officer.
Eric Garner wasn't killed by police while innocently standing on a street corner. He died of medical complications while resisting arrest for a crime that he was committing and had committed multiple times before.
And that kid that died in the back of the police van...again...he wasn't some kid waiting for the bus. He, like the other guy gunned down, was high on drugs and had a knife.
See, it's not helpful to the 'cause' when Mike Brown is portrayed as "an unarmed black teen" as he was by CNN. It's more accurate to say he was a "robbery suspect". He got portrayed as some little black boy minding his own business gunned down for j-walking. And that's just not true. He was an 18-year old (adult) who committed and was commiting a crime. Even the little kid that got gunned down...he was carrying a toy gun with the orange safety device removed.
I guess it's just frustrating that we as a society have made such progress in race relations in the last 60 years...yet there are still people in "black candy land" that want to make it seem like it's still the 60s. And it's not. And any black man who lived through "real racism" will be the FIRST one to tell you that. There was a time...when white cops would TRULY harass blacks...and kill them...especially in the deep South. There was a time when you TRULY could not get a job...or ride a bus...or drink from a water fountain...etc...
If BLM wants to help...then lets talk about body cameras...lets talk about fair prison sentencing. But lets not turn this into a slavery reparations argument...because it's just going to kill any potential for true progress. IMO.
BLM is a bunch of BS. My problem with most of what you say is you think the police have a right to be judge, jury and executor.
Now for Travon Martin he was killed because Florida lets any a-hole who has the money to walk around with a loaded gun and play like he is a cop.
I guess I just wish that every time a police officer is shot by one of these lovely criminals you guys think are getting a bad rap...that actually would make the news and get as much attention as the relatively few times an African American is shot, unarmed, committing some type of crime.
People forget that many of these laws everyone is so quick to get rid of....that are too tough on folks...were put in place in the 90s when there were high crime rates all over the country. Now, thanks to short memories, everyone is in a hurry to go back to those times. California just let a bunch of criminals (non-violent of course...because most people that go to prison are some of the more docile members of society)...out of the over-crowded prisons...and crime rates are up double-digits all over the State.
They close down mental hospitals to save money (Reagan/Bush Sr.) and now early release prisoners rather than build more prisons (Gov. Brown)...and the common effect on society is you're much more likely to get stabbed by either a hardened criminal or crazy lunatic.
And it's all political cowardice. If you want pot use/possession to not lead to prison...de-criminialize it. Problem solved. But see, that would take guts and bravery. If selling cigarettes on a street corner is such a minor crime....decriminalize it. Problem solved. But again...guts and bravery. And that leads to immigration....is it a crime or not? If it is, and you think it's a stupid thing to enforce...change the law. But see, that takes...well, you get the picture.
Our lawmakers are cowards...it's that simple. And there's no nicer way to put it.
How many people, if it was up for a vote, would adopt the "eye for an eye" sentencing? You murder, you die. You torture, you get tortured. Etc... I bet most people would vote for that.
And while George Zimmerman acted a bit 'foolishly'...you also have to consider 'why' he initially did what he did. He was part of a neighborhood watch. His 'job' was to monitor the neighborhood for "suspicious persons". There were problems in the neighborhood with people's houses being broken into. I'm not saying he acted appropriately, nor in a way I would have acted...but the details reported in the trial seem to point to Trayvon attacking him, not out of fear, but because he (Trayvon) thought he was some kinda bad ***. He wasn't running away when he was shot. And there's no reason to believe Zimmerman fired at him and then bashed his own face in to try and cover it up. There's a reason Zimmerman isn't in prison now...and that reason is, while he acted a bit foolishly, Trayvon likely led to his own demise. The call to his girlfriend just before the attack...where he was almost bragging that he was gonna fight with this "cracker"...the other photos and violent texts found on his cell phone...and the fact that Zimmerman passed a lie detector test...not to mention the eye witness accounts...it paints a picture that is NOT consistent with Trayvon's families version.
I mean, it's tragic. I don't think either person wanted that to happen. But given the entire body of evidence, the facts are what the facts are. Trayvon was a troubled youth...who probably wasn't doing anything wrong that night...but had a chip on his shoulder and wanted to be a bad***. He ran into a guy, likely with his own mental issues...feelings of inadequacy, etc... that happened to be armed and suspicious. That's a 'perfect storm' where somebody is bound to get hurt. And to say Zimmerman was lying...when so much evidence leads to the conclusion he wasn't...not to mention that the girl who testified turned out to by lying on the stand...it's just not accurate. Nobody WANTS to side with Zimmerman. Nobody wants teens shot for no reason. But the facts are what the facts are. Trayvon and M. Brown made the same mistake. Why? I dunno. We'll probably never know. But we should be able to be honest about it.
So what you're saying is because we have tackled race relations the past 60 years, there is nothing left to fix? just like ones bowling game, there is always area that need improvements. Most people who can't benefit from affirmative action don't agree with it. But whats crazy is it doesn't hurt anyone, so why be against it?
As for Mike Brown, I again will say, I never said officer Wilson was wrong. By my training and the creditable articles iv'e read, he did the right thing. Does the story have lack of creditable eyewitnesses? absolutely. Quick fact check though. It wasn't know to officer Wilson at the time he stopped or encountered Brown that he was in fact a suspect in a robbery. On top of that the store clerk never reported the "robbery", someone else in the store called the cops and reported what appeared to be a robbery, which is hearsay. Then there was another video released that shows Brown paying for the product he had "stolen". It was also alleged, like most of the details are, he only grabbed the clerk after the clerk but his hands on him. The video released by the media is the second half of the original recording. As someone stated if Brown was wanted for a strong arm robbery, officer Wilson wouldn't have just asked him to get out the street. However, he did fight with the officer and there was a possibility that he went for the gun and was shot because of it, no argument from me on that.
As iv'e explained before about Trayvon Martin, what you seem to miss is, Zimmerman instigated the altercation no matter how you look at it. He was told by dispatch he did not have to follow him but yet he chose to. You can not start a fight and claim self defense when you start losing. Trayvon was committing no crime, unless walking home on the phone with a hoodie on is a crime. Is the person with a weapon the only one allowed to stand their ground?, because it sure is hell seems that way from how you put it. If you ask me martin stood his ground because he was being followed, but he's wrong for that? He was from the south and was a kid influenced by society like most are. With that said cracker is a common term down there even for white people. That and pictures of him flipping the camera off doesn't make him a badass or has anything to do with the case at all. We don't know how trayvon felt at the time, he could have been scared, so don't act like we do based on what those who weren't there say. As for eyewitnesses, there are conflicting stories. No one clearly saw what happen that night from start to finish. So again it came down to persecution based on what he was tried for. My opinion is he isn't in jail because they tried him for second degree murder, instead manslaughter. It was more of negligence and recklessness on Zimmerman's behalf. Also the family accounts don't matter. The evidence also suggest that Zimmerman also lied a few times before getting his story straight. The lie detector test wasn't admissible in court and was said to have issues because the person giving the test asked weren't specific. One question in particular was " did you fear for your life?", in which he responded, yes. His choice to continue following travyon however, shows that that itself was possibly a lie due that answer.
As for blacklivesmatter, they aren't just people looting and rioting. The are protesting because it is there right to do so. Like we always say about officers, don't let the actions of a few determine how you see them all.
Last edited by Hot_pocket; 02-23-2016 at 10:18 AM.
In my bag: Roto Grip Haywire, Ebonite Cyclone Gamebreaker, Brunswick danger zone vintage, Brunswick C-system Maxxed out and Columbia WD. High Game 300 (x3) high series 790...still searching for the 800.
Okay HotPocket....in this time of divisiveness....lets try something different. Lets see if we can't find some common ground. I totally, totally agree that race is still an issue...racism still exists....I've seen it...I hate it...and I've seen reverse racism as well.
But what are the ISSUES...what are some things that YOU feel aren't being addressed that we might find some common ground on? How can we fix some of the racism in the country if we don't even really know WHAT those issues are?
I think we agree on Mike Brown...and I think it's a shame that more african americans don't stand up and say, "Uhhh...no. That guy should NOT be the poster child of the black movement. Just like OJ Simpson isn't the poster boy." As to Trayvon...it's tragic...I can't say I wouldn't have done what Zimmerman did....I can't say I wouldn't have responded the way Trayvon did. It's just a tragedy. But it's not "racism". George Zimmerman, in my honest opinion, was just trying to keep his neighborhood safe and the situation got out of hand.
Personally, I kinda find myself liking Bernie Sander's message. On the other hand, his pandering to the black vote...as well as Clinton...makes me wanna vote Trump...as horrible and absolutely ashamed I am to say that...I'm tired of taking the blame for slavery. I'm tired of it being MY fault when some black person can't get a job. And I'm tired of feeling unsafe in my neighborhood...because the social agenda is to let more criminals out of prison. I don't think that makes me a bad person.
I have been watching the primaries and wonder why dem get delegates for winning Geo. yet never win the state? their delegates should be worth half as much as states they will probably win. The whole thing looks silly.
I personally don't like how they have to cater to black and hispanic voters. That alone always creates a divide. My problem isn't racism. Racism is never ending, you can't get rid of it because its taught at home and in some ways in school through the history books. We can't get rid of history however so it will always be around. My issue is simple equality. I no longer face inequality, at least any that i'm aware of but there are others who do. In my opinion we need to fix police relations in poorer neighborhoods and continue to diversify the force. With that said, i also know the force can not be diversified if other races are not willing to become officers.
The second thing I think that needs to be fixed is the court system. The stand your ground law in particular needs to be specified because as I said Zimmerman was an instigator in the situation. To follow someone, call the cops and never get close enough to have any words with the person is one thing, but to make your presence known without any identification while following someone, you are asking for trouble. Once you get in trouble don't claim it wasn't your fault that you had to act. We do agree on mike brown, including the ridiculous chanting of "hands up don't shoot", even during peaceful protest, because that was proven to be a lie.
You shouldn't being taking the blame for anything. you know slavery wasn't your fault so why treat it as a burden? That is more of a way of how you think compared to what is true. As I stated before most black people are not anti-white just pro-black. They want many to succeed but unfortunately you also have a group that sometimes don't want anyone to. The idea of letting criminals out of prison is good and bad. It will raise the recidivism of criminals because now they will believe they will always be released for petty crimes. It will cause some to escalate from petty crimes to possible violent crimes. The good is it could cut crime because it will cause more people to fall under the 3 strike rule in states that have them, a-lot quicker due to being able to go back to the criminal life. What someone needs to talk about is getting rid of the questioning about arrest on job applications for jobs that don't need to know. It creates a biased hiring process in some events which causes that revolving criminal door because people can't get simple jobs, that they can't support themselves on anyway, after having any kind of record unless its creating their own business. I like Bernie also, don't agree with everything but he seems to have great plans for the country. I believe police should have riot gear and assault rifles but he wants to take that away, which is dumb. I think his pandering, even though it's truth, to the blacks about changing police relations will lead him to lose law enforcement votes.
In my bag: Roto Grip Haywire, Ebonite Cyclone Gamebreaker, Brunswick danger zone vintage, Brunswick C-system Maxxed out and Columbia WD. High Game 300 (x3) high series 790...still searching for the 800.
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