Politcal Ramblings

[billf]

Should a maintenance worker in a factory with no education, just a high school diploma make $75,000/year? Probably not. But can I FAULT the worker for wanting $75,000/year when the CEO makes more than that on the 1st day of that year? No, I can't.

Given that factory maintenance technicians are licensed plumbers, licensed electricians and some, like myself master auto technicians, they are hardly uneducated, high school diploma only having unskilled labor employees. Other than this poor example I agree with more of what you said than I originally thought I would.
-Lowly Freshway Foods factory maintenance technician-

[Aslan]

Given that factory maintenance technicians are licensed plumbers, licensed electricians and some, like myself master auto technicians, they are hardly uneducated, high school diploma only having unskilled labor employees. Other than this poor example I agree with more of what you said than I originally thought I would.
-Lowly Freshway Foods factory maintenance technician-

Well, the maintenance worker was probably the worst example I could use because you're correct...that would be a skilled position at one of the higher starting pay grades. A better example would have been just an auto worker on a line. Having grown up in that area, I knew plenty of high school classmates that skipped college or trade school and got into the UAW. Nowadays, I think thats more difficult. But my neighbor back in Michigan worked on the line and had been working there for about 15 years, just a high school diploma. But I also knew a great many classmates that went off to college and to this day probably aren't making $75,000.

It used to be a good situation in this country because going to college was just a choice based on what you wanted to do...not necessarily what you needed to make. But as those jobs evaporated, all those classmates that would have went from high school to the factory...were suddenly taking out massive loans trying to go to college because it was either that or work minimum wage jobs and live in a trailer.

But it sounds like you got the just of what I was trying to say.

[Timmyb]

Well, the maintenance worker was probably the worst example I could use because you're correct...that would be a skilled position at one of the higher starting pay grades. A better example would have been just an auto worker on a line. Having grown up in that area, I knew plenty of high school classmates that skipped college or trade school and got into the UAW. Nowadays, I think thats more difficult. But my neighbor back in Michigan worked on the line and had been working there for about 15 years, just a high school diploma. But I also knew a great many classmates that went off to college and to this day probably aren't making $75,000.

It used to be a good situation in this country because going to college was just a choice based on what you wanted to do...not necessarily what you needed to make. But as those jobs evaporated, all those classmates that would have went from high school to the factory...were suddenly taking out massive loans trying to go to college because it was either that or work minimum wage jobs and live in a trailer.

But it sounds like you got the just of what I was trying to say.

There are still plenty of good paying non-college required jobs available in this country, if any of these molly-coddled kids would want to get their hands dirty. My son-in-law just started his pipefitter apprenticeship. I've been a machinist for 32 years, and it's never failed to provide me with a living. Schools either don't have vocational programs anymore, or the counselors aren't pushing it. College isn't for everyone.

[RobLV1]

There are still plenty of good paying non-college required jobs available in this country, if any of these molly-coddled kids would want to get their hands dirty. My son-in-law just started his pipefitter apprenticeship. I've been a machinist for 32 years, and it's never failed to provide me with a living. Schools either don't have vocational programs anymore, or the counselors aren't pushing it. College isn't for everyone.

As a retired school teacher, I can tell you with certainty that you are 100% correct, and virtually every school teacher would agree with you. When the government(s) chooses to base a schools success totally on high stakes test scores, schools have no choice but to focus totally on teaching the test to every student, regardless of his/her apptitudes and interests.

[Jessiewoodard57]

I worked for both Dominoes Pizza and McDs as a manager for a total of 31 years. In the process of my job I was responsible for the profit and loss statements done monthly. These companies would be lucky if everything went well that month to do 5% profit on the bottom line. Every time there was a federal wage increase the price of the product had to go up to cover the cost and keep us in business. Everything or service that minimum wage touches has to go up to cover the wage increase. Now let's look at it from the political stand point every time wages go up so does the amount of taxes the IRS can collect therefore our congress gets more to spend ...in the end our senior citizens are the ones hurt the most since they do not get a cost of living increase. Also the higher the wages go the more business send the jobs off shore to a lower wage country. Automobiles are a prime example Mexico and Canada now build many of our "American" cars. McDonalds is already working on reducing it's labor force needed in preparation for the wage increase by installing self serve order takers at the front counter. Yes 15 dollars an hour may very well end up passing. when it does many less will be working many more will be living on the welfare system. Wage increase is not the answer A balanced federal budget with a smaller more efficient government taxing the people less is the answer . This is one problem throwing money at will not fix it.

[fortheloveofbowling]

I worked for both Dominoes Pizza and McDs as a manager for a total of 31 years. In the process of my job I was responsible for the profit and loss statements done monthly. These companies would be lucky if everything went well that month to do 5% profit on the bottom line. Every time there was a federal wage increase the price of the product had to go up to cover the cost and keep us in business. Everything or service that minimum wage touches has to go up to cover the wage increase. Now let's look at it from the political stand point every time wages go up so does the amount of taxes the IRS can collect therefore our congress gets more to spend ...in the end our senior citizens are the ones hurt the most since they do not get a cost of living increase. Also the higher the wages go the more business send the jobs off shore to a lower wage country. Automobiles are a prime example Mexico and Canada now build many of our "American" cars. McDonalds is already working on reducing it's labor force needed in preparation for the wage increase by installing self serve order takers at the front counter. Yes 15 dollars an hour may very well end up passing. when it does many less will be working many more will be living on the welfare system. Wage increase is not the answer A balanced federal budget with a smaller more efficient government taxing the people less is the answer . This is one problem throwing money at will not fix it.

Best post ever for anyone anywhere on any site.

[NYMIKE]

I worked for both Dominoes Pizza and McDs as a manager for a total of 31 years. In the process of my job I was responsible for the profit and loss statements done monthly. These companies would be lucky if everything went well that month to do 5% profit on the bottom line. Every time there was a federal wage increase the price of the product had to go up to cover the cost and keep us in business. Everything or service that minimum wage touches has to go up to cover the wage increase. Now let's look at it from the political stand point every time wages go up so does the amount of taxes the IRS can collect therefore our congress gets more to spend ...in the end our senior citizens are the ones hurt the most since they do not get a cost of living increase. Also the higher the wages go the more business send the jobs off shore to a lower wage country. Automobiles are a prime example Mexico and Canada now build many of our "American" cars. McDonalds is already working on reducing it's labor force needed in preparation for the wage increase by installing self serve order takers at the front counter. Yes 15 dollars an hour may very well end up passing. when it does many less will be working many more will be living on the welfare system. Wage increase is not the answer A balanced federal budget with a smaller more efficient government taxing the people less is the answer . This is one problem throwing money at will not fix it.

Well said, if wages go up to $15 an hour, I won't be able to eat at these fine food establishments. Automation is installed at supermarkets, pharmacies, parking facilities, etc and it slows down service and cost human jobs. I'm working for free about 5 months of the year. Small government is the answer.

[NewToBowling]

I worked for both Dominoes Pizza and McDs as a manager for a total of 31 years. In the process of my job I was responsible for the profit and loss statements done monthly. These companies would be lucky if everything went well that month to do 5% profit on the bottom line. Every time there was a federal wage increase the price of the product had to go up to cover the cost and keep us in business. Everything or service that minimum wage touches has to go up to cover the wage increase. Now let's look at it from the political stand point every time wages go up so does the amount of taxes the IRS can collect therefore our congress gets more to spend ...in the end our senior citizens are the ones hurt the most since they do not get a cost of living increase. Also the higher the wages go the more business send the jobs off shore to a lower wage country. Automobiles are a prime example Mexico and Canada now build many of our "American" cars. McDonalds is already working on reducing it's labor force needed in preparation for the wage increase by installing self serve order takers at the front counter. Yes 15 dollars an hour may very well end up passing. when it does many less will be working many more will be living on the welfare system. Wage increase is not the answer A balanced federal budget with a smaller more efficient government taxing the people less is the answer . This is one problem throwing money at will not fix it.

Lost me at bolded part

[Aslan]

Best post ever for anyone anywhere on any site.

I worked for both Dominoes Pizza and McDs as a manager for a total of 31 years. In the process of my job I was responsible for the profit and loss statements done monthly. These companies would be lucky if everything went well that month to do 5% profit on the bottom line. Every time there was a federal wage increase the price of the product had to go up to cover the cost and keep us in business. Everything or service that minimum wage touches has to go up to cover the wage increase. Now let's look at it from the political stand point every time wages go up so does the amount of taxes the IRS can collect therefore our congress gets more to spend ...in the end our senior citizens are the ones hurt the most since they do not get a cost of living increase. Also the higher the wages go the more business send the jobs off shore to a lower wage country. Automobiles are a prime example Mexico and Canada now build many of our "American" cars. McDonalds is already working on reducing it's labor force needed in preparation for the wage increase by installing self serve order takers at the front counter. Yes 15 dollars an hour may very well end up passing. when it does many less will be working many more will be living on the welfare system. Wage increase is not the answer

While I don't share NTB's enthusiasm...you had me right up until here....

A balanced federal budget with a smaller more efficient government taxing the people less is the answer . This is one problem throwing money at will not fix it.

So your assumption is that we should reduce taxes and cut spending and make government smaller? All things that the modern day tea party would agree with. The "problem" with that logic is:
1) It's called "trickle down economics" and has been proven time and time again not to work.
2) We tried it under G.W. and it CERTAINLY didn't work.

Here's my reasoning why...and hopefully this makes sense;

See, in the old days pre-global economy...trickle down economics was a viable option. If I gave Henry Ford a tax break...he'd take a good portion of that money and re-invest it in new equipment and new factories...providing jobs, and at the same time increasing his own wealth and the wealth of his shareholders. At THAT TIME...such policies were at least feasible.

Fast forward to G.W....and we now have a situation where if you give money to the top....half goes into their wealth and trust funds....the other half gets invested in a new plat...in India....or China...or Vietnam....and eventually, Africa.

So, how do we fix that? Well, there are numerous ways to back-track on free trade policies...and make it a more "fair" trade. The problems are, you now have a global macro economy...and if the US were to implement a less than global-free-trade policy...markets globally would collapse overnight. Those citizens within range of retirement would see their savings completely emptied. In essence, they would have to pay now, for the hope of a stable future for their grandchildren. Many of them don't have grandchildren and are far more concerned with losing their life savings.

I totally agree with you that simply taxing people more and then spending more is not the answer. That's why I'm not a Democrat. But it's not as easy as tea partiers make it seem...to just "make government small". Realize, that Republicans also like to spend taxpayer money...but they like to spend it in terms of tax breaks to the wealthy and increases in defense spending. The last President to actually reduce the debt was Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich congress. But since then, the two parties have simply decided to NOTHING...and many of the most right wing presidential candidates will BRAG about how little they've done...as if that's a badge of honor. How come we can't get a gig like that? The less you do, the more you're rewarded?? But I digress.

You used the example of McDonalds and Dominos. The owner of a McDonalds restaurant in the early 90s made 1 million dollars profit per year per restaurant. I know, because a knew a guy that owned 13 of them. The profit margin may have been low....but the sales volume is massive. And that's common in almost every industry....the more demand for a product, without supply limitations, you will often see the margins get lower. "Niche" products, the profit margin is much higher.

As I mentioned, historically 8% has been used by most businesses as the cutoff between investing and saving. The problem is, in a 0 interest wate environment...savings accounts don't pay 2%. That leaves the stock market or real estate or commodities. Most commodities are falling and that can be a risky choice. Real estate used to always net you 8-11%...but after the housing market crash...it's much more of a gamble now. And the stock market historically gets 8-15%...but we're in a very stagnant recovery right now and the global markets are under pressure...and we're on the verge of WWIII...and most investment houses/hedge fund managers are actually struggling to break even for 2015 after that huge collapse in August.

Why? Well...

[Aslan]

...

And before I forget, the Dominos example was actually a really bad example. Dominos used to charge $12.50 for a pizza. They now charge $5.99. Competition has driven their prices and profits down...mostly due to Little Caesars making a marginal large pizza for $5.00. That put a lot of tiny pizza places out of business and drove down prices at the chains across the board.

So how did Dominos go from selling a $12.50 pizza...to selling the same pizza (actually an improved version) for $5.99? How did they NOT go out of business!!? If they were making razor thin profit margins of 5%...they'd have never been able to eat that profit.

Now, a quick conversation about the MACRO economy.

You have essentially 4 regions: Europe, Asia, South America, and the U.S.

Europe does a lot of things right, but are always at risk because there are many states in the EU that don't do so well...and the ones that do have to prop them up. So for every Germany, there's a Greece. And due to size/geography, they are far more affected by security issues like we've seen in France, Belgium, and Turkey. In my opinon, most of that is the result of the very high unemployment rate throughout the EU.

South America was the "vogue" place to open a factory back in 2005-2010 because those states tend to have more stable regulatory environment than latin America but wages are still lower than US/Canada/EU. The problem is these states are poltically unstable (Argentina, Chile, Columbia, etc...) and Brazil is not as cost competitive as other area in Latin/South America. So that little experiment thus far gets a "C-" Grade.

The next "big thing" was China. Lots of business folks with fancy MBAs decided China was not only cheap labor...low regulations...but ALSO a huge potential market of 1-2 billion consumers. However, they're models predicted China would develop faster and create a middle class. They didn't. The consumers showed up, but not 1-2 billion. Many of the Chinese are still living in total poverty and there's little sign a middle class will emerge anytime soon, if ever. In addition, many companies immediately ran into regulatory problems operating in China because of the communist government. Many, many instances of intellectual property being simply stolen...and then a Chinese national company will open up supplying the same products...often times luring their citizens away from the original company. So, I give this little Chinese endeavor a "C-" because I think the market may be there eventually...but thus far has been a failure. That led to the crash in August.

So in terms of "grades":
Asia/China: C-
S. America: C-
E.U. : B
U.S. : B+

The issues facing the US economy (in no particular order) are:
1) High cost of labor.
2) High cost of regulation.
3) Political entrenchment.
4) Collapsing middle class.
5) National debt.

Long term, #4 is the biggest issue on that list...same as #5...with catastrophic consequences. But with the best middle class in the world; that'll take time to truly unravel.

#2 is a pain...especially in California or New Jersey. But as I tried to point out to Iceman about the FDA...there are benefits to regulations. For example, we don't need to bribe a police force to have our trucks move across the highway. We have a strong legal system that protects corporations and workers...making it very difficult to exploit people or resources. Would you want to eliminate the Department of Education and then find out you have to may $3500/year to send your kid to school? What if the school didn't want your kid? Or black kids? Or white kids? Or non-Christian kids? "Free education for all" is difficult when the schools are driven by profit. Do we want an EPA? Some would say "no". Okay...then whats stopping companies from contaminating water wells and drinking water? If it's simply a matter of being sued...a big enough company could bankrupt any private citizen(s) making claims...or at least block the trial long enough for the plantiffs just to die. All these "departments" were initially created for a REASON. And that REASON is usually = corporate greed leading to some disaster.

#5, #3, and #1...are all failings of our elected officials. How come we have numerous congressmen running for President when the Congress has a 13% approval rating? They can't do their regular job...so we reward them with the Presidency?? Does that make sense to ANYONE??

You worked at MCDonalds. A store manager...could make $35,000-$60,000/year. That's not bad. But the workers...they make slightly less than $20,000 annually. Well below the poverty line. Now, in the OLE DAYS....only kids and retired people took those jobs as "extra income". NOW...we have people supporting families that are taking those jobs because they can't find better ones. Someone brought up that they could be a machinist or journeyman. Okay...off the street with no knowledge? No way. They'd have to go back to school for at least 6 months to a year to learn those skills...and then HOPE the economy is still strong...because who are the first people in the unemployment line when the economy tanks...construction workers, pipe fitters, etc... Look at the oil industry....more than half the wells are capped...those folks are out of work.

And sometimes...we have to just give something the "eye test". If it "seems" wrong...sometimes it is. If the first day of work...the CEO makes more money than the union worker makes in an entire year....MOST people would say, "Nah...that's not right." The problem (and Micheal Moore...although I'm not a huge fan...did a great job describing this in one of his movies) is; we all psychologically think they we have a chance to someday be rich. So as long as we feel we could someday be in the top 1-2%....we don't want to limit that group...because "someday that will be us"....no matter how absurd that is.

Hypothetically, will a raise in wage raise the price of a cheeseburger at McDonalds? Maybe. A chocolate bar used to cost me 25 cents and now it's $1.50. That's how things work. McDonalds will find a way...just like Dominos did when they lowered their prices (and probably made less profit) to compete. Will it lead to job losses? Maybe. But why are we concerned NOW about job losses? Why weren't we concerned when the bicycle manufacturers left, or the appliance makers, or the furniture makers, or the textile industry? We've let every industry leave for cheaper wages overseas...and now we're going to draw the line and bail out the auto industry and keep low-income workers as low-income as possible? Because God forbid the owner of the McDonalds restaurant has to buy an Escalade instead of a Range Rover. I mean, times are tough and all...but lets not get too extreme.