Benchmark ball? Then what?

[Amyers]

Here's what I don't understand.

If you take out the variables, and just focus on cover. Same surface and RG in this example...

Most bowlers would want it to go long. So a solid wouldn't interest them...unless they have no revs or a super high speed...or are playing in very heavy, non-THS conditions.

Yet the other thing 95% of bowlers ask for is "snap". Right?

PSO: "What kinda ball are ya lookin for?"
95%: "I want it to go long and snap into the pocket."

Well...again...why would you want a solid...it's not designed to "snap". I guess you could polish the daylights out of it....but why bother with that when there's a pearl version with the same core?

And what are the big problems in todays game (from a technology point of view)? Balls that don't retain enough energy to carry corner pins. At the highest level, that's the difference between winning and losing....most miss room and carrying corner pins. They aren't thinking (like I am), "hopefully I can find the pocket today." Not even Tom Daugherty!! <-- that was mean.

So if the IDEAL BALL goes long (high RG, shiny cover) and SNAPS (axis tilt, axis rotation, powerful core, skid/flip ball)...why buy a solid or a ball with a low RG? Won't likely be dead before it ever hits the pocket (unless you're throwing it 21-23mph)??

I dunno. Still trying to process all this. We need Chris Barnes to come in and post his thoughts...cuz I'm sure he has nothing better to do around holiday time with the WSOB coming up...

Try asking some of the 220+ guys in your house if the ask for everything drilled long and strong I bet they don't. There are times for different motions. Try throwing a skid/snap ball on a pattern that plays over under. Play a high surface Pearl on a heavy 45 ft pattern. Play a solid with low oil in the heads or mids. None of those are good options.

I primarily throw three balls right now. Mastermind Einstein 2.50, Virtual Gravity Nano Pearl 2.48, and Arson Low Flare 2.48. I use the Einstein-3000 grit as my bench mark, if I need flipper the Virtual Gravity Pearl- 1500 polished comes out, if I need less movement more control its the Arson Low Flare (this ball I change the grits on between 2k and 4K). Similar RG but different motions because of surface, cover, core design, and drilling. Pretty much any day on fresh conditions I can hit the pocket with any of the three it's just figuring out which is the most consistent and provides the best carry.

[Amyers]

H

My Freeze is the original. Blue/Green 4000 grit with polish. I REALLY appreciate the time and info that you and Amyers have provided in this thread. I'm sure you've answered many of the questions over and over. I'll be spending a lot of time with those articles on the link that you provided.

Thanks to both of you!

I hear what Aslan is saying. I used to be one of those, when I first got back into this sport a few years ago. I wanted that ball to do what every one else's was doing, without knowing how to do it. Even info in this thread gave me more info on that subject that I didn't have before.

But now,I know I (personally) don't need a ball that goes long and snap. I have one. And it doesn't work. The pattern is already long, so a ball that is designed to go long is not going to have enough room at the end to "snap". Plus, I'm finding by my own experience and watching others, that on this pattern, the skid/flip motion is far less controllable and forgiving.

For various reasons, I'm not nearly good enough to hit the same board over and over. I'm very lucky if I can hit within +/-2 boards of my target at the arrows time and time again. Over a complete game, that target is a blur about 10 boards wide with my misses. I fight the simplest of errors in concentration.

Rob, we talked about surface changing the OOB surface before bowling with it. i've never done that before, and I understand completely the benefits of it. So for my first one, For the LT-48, where do I start? Take it down and bring it back up to the OOB condition (500, compound, polish)? or since I'll be using it on what I think is medium volume long pattern, add some surface to it, say 4000 or leave it at compound?

If your going to regularly have the ball resurfaced (every 20-25 games) I'd start with a surface that I knew I could duplicate and get back start at 4K. If you plan on resurfacing only when the ball needs it lol (50-100 games) then just try it out like it comes and adjust from there. Truthfully myself I only take my balls to be resurfaced about every 50 games especially on the polished stuff on my lower grit stuff I refresh it by hand every 6-10 games and take it to the proshop every 30-40.

[RobLV1]

For my LT-48, I use a 500/2000/Polish combination that works pretty well. This is a combination that I use on a lot of balls, so it could be that it just works pretty well for me. I like the fact that you want to put a surface on the ball that you can duplicate rather than just going with the OOB finish and pulling your hair out when it comes time for resurfacing.

[Ptnomore]

H

If your going to regularly have the ball resurfaced (every 20-25 games) I'd start with a surface that I knew I could duplicate and get back start at 4K. If you plan on resurfacing only when the ball needs it lol (50-100 games) then just try it out like it comes and adjust from there. Truthfully myself I only take my balls to be resurfaced about every 50 games especially on the polished stuff on my lower grit stuff I refresh it by hand every 6-10 games and take it to the proshop every 30-40.

I'm realizing that both teams that I'm on, are increasingly depending on my ability to score big, as a few of the other team mates ability seems to be waining with age and hard headedness. So, I'm beginning to take at least the Mens league a bit more seriously at risk of a reduction in "fun", which I promised my wife I wouldn't do. I think I can manage it without having it ruin my week.

So, I have begun, in the last few weeks at least, to recognize that the bowling balls needs a weekly maintenance surface hit, at a minimum, if I'm going to stay consistant, or improve. I'm also MUCH more interested in how slight surface adjustments can help find more miss room, or widen the usage envelope, and paying more attention to what the ball is doing, and not what those around me, or what my preconceived thoughts say I should be doing or throwing. With what I found by using that "old Freeze" last week, all of what I thought I knew has gone out the window, or is at least back open for discussion.

I was taught how to bowl by my Dad when I was a kid, throwing rubber and plastic in the 70's and 80's. I quit when I was 16 because I aged out of the youth league that I was bowling in, and there was no school team and really no other option. So coming back into it around the age of 40, I have alot of old info, some of which is still supported and preached by the elders that I bowl with, that is really null and void in today's game.

I'm hampered by old injuries, an arthritic back with degenerative disc disease (yup, young for that, I know), and tendonitus seemingly everywhere. So when I can string together 6 X's in a row, I'm about as happy with my game as I can possibly be. I know that a 300 for me at this point is pretty close to an impossibility. That thought keeps me humble and appreciative of those mid 600 series, and keeps me from getting too upset when I bowl a low 5.

Luckily I have a wife that understands that I need this, and supports my "obsession" with bowling, and doesn't come down on me for the occasional new ball, or a couple of hours spent in front of the spinner.

I'll be ordering that LT-48 tomorrow. I should have it ready to go by Tuesday, and probably give it a test run next Friday. I'll let ya's know how it goes. Thanks!!!

[Amyers]

I'm realizing that both teams that I'm on, are increasingly depending on my ability to score big, as a few of the other team mates ability seems to be waining with age and hard headedness. So, I'm beginning to take at least the Mens league a bit more seriously at risk of a reduction in "fun", which I promised my wife I wouldn't do. I think I can manage it without having it ruin my week.

So, I have begun, in the last few weeks at least, to recognize that the bowling balls needs a weekly maintenance surface hit, at a minimum, if I'm going to stay consistant, or improve. I'm also MUCH more interested in how slight surface adjustments can help find more miss room, or widen the usage envelope, and paying more attention to what the ball is doing, and not what those around me, or what my preconceived thoughts say I should be doing or throwing. With what I found by using that "old Freeze" last week, all of what I thought I knew has gone out the window, or is at least back open for discussion.

I was taught how to bowl by my Dad when I was a kid, throwing rubber and plastic in the 70's and 80's. I quit when I was 16 because I aged out of the youth league that I was bowling in, and there was no school team and really no other option. So coming back into it around the age of 40, I have alot of old info, some of which is still supported and preached by the elders that I bowl with, that is really null and void in today's game.

I'm hampered by old injuries, an arthritic back with degenerative disc disease (yup, young for that, I know), and tendonitus seemingly everywhere. So when I can string together 6 X's in a row, I'm about as happy with my game as I can possibly be. I know that a 300 for me at this point is pretty close to an impossibility. That thought keeps me humble and appreciative of those mid 600 series, and keeps me from getting too upset when I bowl a low 5.

Luckily I have a wife that understands that I need this, and supports my "obsession" with bowling, and doesn't come down on me for the occasional new ball, or a couple of hours spent in front of the spinner.

I'll be ordering that LT-48 tomorrow. I should have it ready to go by Tuesday, and probably give it a test run next Friday. I'll let ya's know how it goes. Thanks!!!

Your situation sounds similar to my own when I came back a little over 2 years ago. Everyday is a learning experience and more often than not relearning things I thought I knew. I'm still not where I want average wise but I'm throwing it pretty well and being competitive in my scratch league so it can be done.

[Aslan]

Try using your eyes instead of your brain to find the balls that work for you.

Dang it. At 41, my eyes aren't in the best shape. Right now I'm trying to get used to no-line trifocals...so the pins are only in focus if I look through the proper 1/3 of the lenses. DOHT!

[Ptnomore]

So tonight at league, (mixed low average league, alot of straight ball sub 140 average men and women), the lanes were hooking! Volume was way light. Started woth the Freeze standing on 15 throwing over 6 and 7. By Frame 5 of the first game, I was standing on 25 throwing over 15, 16, 17, 18,...couldnt keep it from going left. Grabbed my Natural. Hit soft and left alot of 10's. So I did something I never did before, buy going on something I read in one of Rob's articles, that basically said, if the lanes are hooking, throw a ball that hooks, not one that doesn't. So I grabbed my Arson Hybrid. It was money, as long as I kept the speed up and let the ball go. By 3rd game, was standing in front of the ball return, throwing over 20 out to 8 to 10, and it was striking. I've NEVER been able to strike from there before. But its because I wasnt using the right equipment, usually much stronger than the Hybrid.

And of course, this just a few hours after I ordererd the new ball, I find out that by Monday, they will be going back to the pattern and oil viscosity that they were using 3 to 4 weeks ago that my old Wicked Siege was working on. @*#&$!

We'll see. Im still looking forward to trying the new ball. I should still be able to use it. From conversation tonight with a respected bowler that still works at the lanes and provides input to the owner and lane machine operator, I found out that 3 weeks ago, they were using a 30 viscosity oil. For the last couple of weeks, they were using a 45. But that apparently caused too much carry down and issues with the ball return flippers. No idea what the hell they did to the lanes tonight though. It was ridiculous.

Funny thing though, one of those no thumb bowler guys asked to use my Urethane ball (Natural), cuz he couldnt keep his ball on the lane, I obliged. But, I didnt realize at the time that he was a lefty. I watched him throw the next 4 strikes. Once I told my team Captain what was going on, the two of us laughed like hell with every strike that guy threw. It just wasnt natural. It made NO sense. After he finished his 2xx game, I asked him if he by any chance flipped it so the thumb hole was in front of his fingers, or if it was in his palm. Of course, it was in his palm.

That ball shouldnt have moved like that for him. The weight block is backwards for him. Once again, my eyes gave my brain a work out at the lanes, but along with some good beer, provided a lot of laughs.

Was a good night at the lanes tonight.

[Ptnomore]

I got the LT-48 drilled up on Friday night. I decided to drill it pin under ring finger to tame the back end. All of my other equipment is pin over ring finger, or pin in the ring finger.

I hoped to get the ball before that so I could resurface it right away, but I struggled to find a ball in my bag that worked the first game while the -48 was gettig drillled. Started using it in the 2nd frame of the second game. By the 5th frame, I had the thumb opened enough, and added 3 pieces of tape and really was able to see this ball work. It's money. Very consistant, allowed me to get out of the usual down and in or straight bowlers lines, plenty of miss room, and it hit hard! Something that I havent been able to get my current equipment to do consistantly this season. Im going to refinish it before Tuesday night, and see what It'll do on the fresh. Loving this ball choice though. Thanks Rob and Amyers for talking me through it and opening my eyes to that ball!

[Ptnomore]

Well, last night, the pattern was different again. They went back to the week 3 pattern, light and short. So the LT just didn't have it. In Practice, I was able to throw a good 10-12 balls, and I tried 3 balls, over 2-3 lines each. The Polished Wicked Siege gave me the best look and most miss room. I had 5 boards with my feet, and 10 boards at the arrows. 236 first game.

Second game I struggled with transition a bit. Had 3 splits from pocket hits, that I could not convert. 176 2nd game.

3rd game, the lanes were REALLY hooking, and I used some of Robs advice..."If the lanes are hooking, throw a ball that hooks". So, normally in the 3rd game I'd always go with what I was taught as a kid and still hear on the lanes now even after the conversion from wood to Synthetics this summer, and that was that I'd ball down to my Polished pearl and move back to the right.

Last night, I grabbed my Arson Hybrid with the 3000 grit matte surface, and moved left. It was SO pretty, when I hit my mark. By then, my lack of sleep was catching up to me, I was dragging. Drifting, losing strength in my wrist and couldn't keep it cupped through the swing, etc. Still banged out a 214.

I'm getting there. And all this stuff I'm reading is started to click.

We did well as a team. We did much better than we have in over a month. But the team we bowled were ridiculous. I think they could have been bowling with tennis balls and the pins would still go down for them. We lost by 100+ every game. You'll have days like this though.

[dougb]

I got the LT-48 drilled up on Friday night. I decided to drill it pin under ring finger to tame the back end. All of my other equipment is pin over ring finger, or pin in the ring finger.

I hoped to get the ball before that so I could resurface it right away, but I struggled to find a ball in my bag that worked the first game while the -48 was gettig drillled. Started using it in the 2nd frame of the second game. By the 5th frame, I had the thumb opened enough, and added 3 pieces of tape and really was able to see this ball work. It's money. Very consistant, allowed me to get out of the usual down and in or straight bowlers lines, plenty of miss room, and it hit hard! Something that I havent been able to get my current equipment to do consistantly this season. Im going to refinish it before Tuesday night, and see what It'll do on the fresh. Loving this ball choice though. Thanks Rob and Amyers for talking me through it and opening my eyes to that ball!

The LT-48 is hands down my favorite ball and gets more use than anything. Really an amazing THS ball. It is so good I'm thinking about getting another and drilling it pin down to go with my pin up one! And maybe another to stash in the closet!

The other ball in the Vintage series - the Gold Rhino Pro - doesn't even compare in my opinion.