Why does my much older ball hook more then newer more "aggressive" ball.

[vdubtx]

It seems like I really hit a nerve here, and I really don't understand why.

No nerves hit at all, just stating opinion that differs from yours.

That's what forums are for, to have conversations. Not all will lead on one direction or have same opinions on topics as you well know.

[RobLV1]

It's not a matter of what's fair or unfair.

But of who said what.

You said that this is a topic of conversation before league starts.

It often is a topic of conversation before league starts.

"Hey, two of their guys are using the Purple stuff, be prepared to move fast and often."

Okay, this is some bowlers saying those guys balls are maybe going to be removing more oil than normal (Do to them being clean) and they have to be prepared to adjust.

That's a reasonable conversation, they could of have said the same thing if they saw the two guys were using sanded balls or particle balls or balls known for soaking up lots of oil etc.

Now you also said "I've also seen it used to intentionally mess up someone else's shot."

I have also heard this during bowling when someone on an opposing team seemingly cannot miss, a player chooses to use the Purple Stuff and throw a few shots on the keyed in players line.

Okay here you said "you" seen someone using the Purple stuff to destroying someone else's shot. That is a very different view than the other conversation.

Yes it is. I was simply relaying two different conversations that I heard on two different occasions. Sorry I wasn't clear about that.

How did you determine that was their intent by using it?

They said so.

Did they just clean their ball and play the same line as you or someone else?
That in of itself doesn't mean someone is using unfair tactics.

Did you over hear them saying "I'm going to mess with that guys shot?
etc.

Yes.

In any case it's not the cleaners fault, it's not the USBC fault because they approved it and just because some is using it doesn't mean they are using unfair tactics just by using it.

I never said that I thought it was fair, or unfair for that matter. I was just stating what I've heard among elite bowlers. There are valid arguments to be made for either side in terms of manipulating lane conditions. I don't believe that I've stated my opinion on the matter one way or the other.

Now if you want to say the USBC should not allow cleaning of a ball during league, hey that's okay. If ball cleaning is a problem somehow on a league, just pass a league rule saying you can't clean it during league problem solved.

Please see my comments above.

[NewToBowling]

How convenient that you implicitly say they were using it to ruin other peoples shot

[RobLV1]

How convenient that you implicitly say they were using it to ruin other peoples shot

Not convenient at all. I said it because I heard it. I have not given any opinion on the practice of ruining other people's lines, or on whether or not the Purple Stuff should be legal or not. I'm telling you what I've heard, and what I've seen. Kinda makes me wish I had never joined in on the conversation at all.

[Tony]

Although I'm not part of the debate / conversation I have to say I'm glad I play at a recreational level and do not bowl with many players that endeavor to win by ruining another guys shot. There is one team of arrogant young kids that are hotshot bowlers and have been suspected of sandbagging, trying to ruin a guys line, and who knows what other things that I would consider poor sportsmanship.

[NewToBowling]

Not convenient at all. I said it because I heard it. I have not given any opinion on the practice of ruining other people's lines, or on whether or not the Purple Stuff should be legal or not. I'm telling you what I've heard, and what I've seen. Kinda makes me wish I had never joined in on the conversation at all.

Sure. Sounds reasonable

[NewToBowling]

Although I'm not part of the debate / conversation I have to say I'm glad I play at a recreational level and do not bowl with many players that endeavor to win by ruining another guys shot. There is one team of arrogant young kids that are hotshot bowlers and have been suspected of sandbagging, trying to ruin a guys line, and who knows what other things that I would consider poor sportsmanship.

Question isn't that there aren't unscrupulous bowlers out there but that they just blurt out their intentions for everyone to hear.

[RobLV1]

Question isn't that there aren't unscrupulous bowlers out there but that they just blurt out their intentions for everyone to hear.

I really think that the basic question here is whether the idea of manipulating a shot is unscrupulous or not. I've had a long discussion with Tom Clark who basically says that it is what it is. And, to a degree, he's right. The fact that the USBC has been totally remiss in controlling what's legal in terms of bowling balls as well as monitoring oil conditions, so the result is that modern bowling is kinda like the wild, wild west in terms of what is legal and what's not. If it's legal, and accepted by the powers that be, then why not just blurt it out?

[fortheloveofbowling]

Gamesmanship has long been a part of our sport to aid to a bowlers chances and trying to minimize the opponents chances. I have heard from old timers before the tv lights came on Earl Anthony would often throw a super sanded ball to burn up a line and play off of it. Just watch the way Norm Duke handles his self in match play sometime. He is meticulous with the feel of his ball but many think he gets even slower with adjustments when he feels he can take an opponent out of his rhythm. I watched a multi pba regional winner one night in league throw plastic ball up a super dry line just to create hold. Was that wrong also for lane manipulation? Many times gamesmanship is going on and we can not even tell. Now which things are acceptable? Is it ok to create your own advantage and not expect some else to try to do the same? As i said before, i really think altering the surface of your ball other than just wiping with a clean towel after competition begins should not be allowed but it is so.......

[RobLV1]

How true! I can't tell you how many times I have approached my opponent who has beat me the first two games of a match play league and offered to bet on the last game. Many times he folds like a lawn chair just because there's a dollar or five on the line.