Interesting video about ball motion and balling up and down

[RobLV1]

Two things, Aslan:

1) Just because the people who made the video used Radical bowling balls does not mean that the knowledge is not applicable to everyone who understands the balls in their arsenals, just so long as the understanding is based on reality, not just their proconceptions (hint, hint).

2) Who ever told you that you never adjust off of a bad shot? That's nonsense! If you are bowling on a THS and you have the right ball in your hand, you can learn almost as much as if you throw a perfect shot. In many cases, if house bowlers wait to throw a perfect shot to adjust, they'd never move. Oh, wait a minute, many of them never move anyway!

[Tony]

Two things, Aslan:

1) Just because the people who made the video used Radical bowling balls does not mean that the knowledge is not applicable to everyone who understands the balls in their arsenals, just so long as the understanding is based on reality, not just their proconceptions (hint, hint).

2) Who ever told you that you never adjust off of a bad shot? That's nonsense! If you are bowling on a THS and you have the right ball in your hand, you can learn almost as much as if you throw a perfect shot. In many cases, if house bowlers wait to throw a perfect shot to adjust, they'd never move. Oh, wait a minute, many of them never move anyway!

So you're saying the "wait until the lanes come to you" theory rarely works ....

[bowl1820]

So you're saying the "wait until the lanes come to you" theory rarely works ....

Pretty much, if you wait until your making prefect shots or for the lanes to come around to make a adjustment. Then you most likely have waited too long, you've wasted so many frames you more than likely can't recover from it.

So you are better off making a change off a bad shot and seeing what happens, than wasting time waiting for a perfect shot or the lanes to change to base your decision on.

Note: I'm not saying anything about basing specific adjustments on a bad shot (or if you have the ball stick to your thumb and throw it through the ceiling).

Just that sometimes, if your not getting the results you want, You should just go ahead and make a change of some kind and see what happens. You only have 10 frames and that's not a lot of time to wait.

If interested this horse got beat before in this thread:
http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads...o-Another-Ball

[Tony]

Pretty much, if you wait until your making prefect shots or for the lanes to come around to make a adjustment. Then you most likely have waited too long, you've wasted so many frames you more than likely can't recover from it.

So you are better off making a change off a bad shot and seeing what happens, than wasting time waiting for a perfect shot or the lanes to change to base your decision on.

Note: I'm not saying anything about basing specific adjustments on a bad shot (or if you have the ball stick to your thumb and throw it through the ceiling).

Just that sometimes, if your not getting the results you want, You should just go ahead and make a change of some kind and see what happens. You only have 10 frames and that's not a lot of time to wait.

If interested this horse got beat before in this thread:
http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads...o-Another-Ball

I have heard the saying many times over the years, I put it in the same category as 'waiting until the hot girl at the bar comes up to you"

I am way too impatient to wait for perfect shots to adjust, in fact if I am making perfect shots I don't adjust much at all !

I do sometimes find late in the 3rd game I end up playing roughly where I started !

I remember that thread.

[RobLV1]

So you're saying the "wait until the lanes come to you" theory rarely works ....

If you were lost in the desert, would you wait for rain?

[Aslan]

If you were lost in the desert, would you wait for rain?

No. But realize if you're lost in the desert, you will probably die before you find your way out.

In this analogy, I'm waiting for night so I can see where the North star is and hoping like hell(o) I know which one is the North star and have some idea the quickest direction to travel to get me out of the desert.

Tony, on the other hand, spins a bottle and off he goes! Maybe I die in the desert and he makes it out. But there are a lot of dead bodies in the desert that thought they knew where they were going.

As Bowl1820 prepared for...because this horse has been beaten before...he specified that a shot stuck on your thumb that hits the ceiling you shouldn't adjust off of. Okay...so we got that down...that's a good start. Now think of the next worst scenario....

1) You drop the ball. Adjust? Switch balls? Yell at God for creating gravity?
2) You get excited and fire it 19mph into the 6-10. Adjust? Information? If you were wondering, "Geez....how would the lanes play if instead of bowling...I fired a projectile into the 6-10 pocket...mission accomplished!!
3) You throw 8mph, and just got a brand new Guru Mighty and it goes so far Brooklyn it misses the headpin. Info? Pretty blatent info there! You throw too slow to use that strong a ball on that line. Shouldn't have needed to throw it to figure that out unless it's the first shot at that house...ever.
4) You have a 200rpm suitcase release and are playing the same line as Jason Belmonte and can't figure out why it keeps going in the gutter. Keep playing that line and ball UP to something stronger? Pray for the "Gift"?
5) You have missed your target by 6 boards. Good luck adjusting off that.
6) You loft the ball so it lands 30ft out. Go ahead, switch balls. I suggest something lighter since you're going to be very tired by Game 3.
7) Your form is horrible, you nearly fall down, and are completely unbalanced. You hit your target by some miracle. Adjust off that? Maybe. Did the ball strike? I guess you're good then.
8) You fire 5 different balls up the 5-board playing a PBA pattern that you have heard PBA pros and USBC instructors tell you a stroker/tweener can't get outside of 10 due to out-of-bounds...are they full of poo? I got it...they are just worried that you're on the rise and gunning for their spot on the Tour so they're intentionally giving you bad information right?? Again...have the pro shop drill 10 more balls for you...because you're gonna be firing those suckers up the right side and missing badly...might have better luck at skeeball in the arcade.

Opinions vary (obviously) on the wisdom of making adjustments and/or ball changes off a bad shot. If I throw my spare ball at the 10-pin and I miss and it goes in the gutter at 40ft...I need to be determining why I missed my target and what I can do better the next time/attempt...not, "maybe I should use a strike ball....so it'll hook and stay in bounds!"

It's absurdity. It's like the occasional newb that comes in talking about how he bowls back-up style or intentionally tries to get Brooklyn strikes. The general consensus is that neither of those are good long-term strategies based on decades of bowling knowledge. But hey...Iceman bowled 2 perfect games and I'm 2-0 against MWhite in the ABHMAVZSCI...so I guess just do whatever; who cares?

[Doghouse Reilly]

Alright great examples!

Of how someone will try to discredit something they don't understand, by coming up with a bunch of over exaggerated scenarios.

[RobLV1]

Aslan: I've worked with you enough times to know that a great majority of the shots you throw are decent; not gross errors. If you're not perfect, you can still watch how the ball reacts and learn alot about miss room, if nothing else. I'm assuming that you are being facetious when referring to missing a ten pin with a plastic ball and thinking that you can somehow adjust your strike shot. If you choose to drink enough during bowling that your balance becomes impaired, then the ideas of ball motion and adjustments go out the window anyway.

[Amyers]

No. But realize if you're lost in the desert, you will probably die before you find your way out.

In this analogy, I'm waiting for night so I can see where the North star is and hoping like hell(o) I know which one is the North star and have some idea the quickest direction to travel to get me out of the desert.

Tony, on the other hand, spins a bottle and off he goes! Maybe I die in the desert and he makes it out. But there are a lot of dead bodies in the desert that thought they knew where they were going.

As Bowl1820 prepared for...because this horse has been beaten before...he specified that a shot stuck on your thumb that hits the ceiling you shouldn't adjust off of. Okay...so we got that down...that's a good start. Now think of the next worst scenario....

1) You drop the ball. Adjust? Switch balls? Yell at God for creating gravity?
2) You get excited and fire it 19mph into the 6-10. Adjust? Information? If you were wondering, "Geez....how would the lanes play if instead of bowling...I fired a projectile into the 6-10 pocket...mission accomplished!!
3) You throw 8mph, and just got a brand new Guru Mighty and it goes so far Brooklyn it misses the headpin. Info? Pretty blatent info there! You throw too slow to use that strong a ball on that line. Shouldn't have needed to throw it to figure that out unless it's the first shot at that house...ever.
4) You have a 200rpm suitcase release and are playing the same line as Jason Belmonte and can't figure out why it keeps going in the gutter. Keep playing that line and ball UP to something stronger? Pray for the "Gift"?
5) You have missed your target by 6 boards. Good luck adjusting off that.
6) You loft the ball so it lands 30ft out. Go ahead, switch balls. I suggest something lighter since you're going to be very tired by Game 3.
7) Your form is horrible, you nearly fall down, and are completely unbalanced. You hit your target by some miracle. Adjust off that? Maybe. Did the ball strike? I guess you're good then.
8) You fire 5 different balls up the 5-board playing a PBA pattern that you have heard PBA pros and USBC instructors tell you a stroker/tweener can't get outside of 10 due to out-of-bounds...are they full of poo? I got it...they are just worried that you're on the rise and gunning for their spot on the Tour so they're intentionally giving you bad information right?? Again...have the pro shop drill 10 more balls for you...because you're gonna be firing those suckers up the right side and missing badly...might have better luck at skeeball in the arcade.

Opinions vary (obviously) on the wisdom of making adjustments and/or ball changes off a bad shot. If I throw my spare ball at the 10-pin and I miss and it goes in the gutter at 40ft...I need to be determining why I missed my target and what I can do better the next time/attempt...not, "maybe I should use a strike ball....so it'll hook and stay in bounds!"

It's absurdity. It's like the occasional newb that comes in talking about how he bowls back-up style or intentionally tries to get Brooklyn strikes. The general consensus is that neither of those are good long-term strategies based on decades of bowling knowledge. But hey...Iceman bowled 2 perfect games and I'm 2-0 against MWhite in the ABHMAVZSCI...so I guess just do whatever; who cares?

As usual with you lets take extreme examples and try to make a point with it. Does some of this stuff happen to us every now and then on one shot? Yes (some of it's just b.s. too) but if that's happening on a regular basis you suck enough that making adjustments is the last of your worries.

I generally am looking at about a three board area if it's in that area it's good enough. Waiting around for a shot to go over the exact board I want, with the release I want, and the angle I want I'll be there all day and never move. What difference does it make to wait if the next five I throw are going to be a board right or left of where I really wanted. Shots missed by 5 boards or more no probably not adjusting off that although I have found that I had way more miss room one way or the other that way before.

Part of the problem is your confidence and expectations. You don't believe in yourself so you assume the problem was you when I think often times it's not it's what your trying to do. We bowl differently but we are not too far from each other average wise but you seem to expect yourself to have a PBA caliber release. I don't I'm trying to improve mine doubt it ever gets that good but I haven't ever thrown a ball yet that didn't do what I wanted and thought man I screwed the axis rotation up on that one. Do I occasionally let of a stinker that goes straight every great now and again yes but I think you give way too much credence to your release and it's effect on where your ball ends up than you should.

[Aslan]

Alright great examples!

Of how someone will try to discredit something they don't understand, by coming up with a bunch of over exaggerated scenarios.

I could prove it. I could prove it on either league night. I'll just video tape the 4-5 shots from each team over the course of one game...and you can tell me how many of them make "good enough" shots to actually make an adjustment off those shots.

Aslan: I've worked with you enough times to know that a great majority of the shots you throw are decent; not gross errors.

You sure you're thinking about me??

As usual with you lets take extreme examples and try to make a point with it. Does some of this stuff happen to us every now and then on one shot? Yes (some of it's just b.s. too) but if that's happening on a regular basis you suck enough that making adjustments is the last of your worries.

Ding Ding Ding Ding!!

Amyers gets a gold star!! And that describes me as a bowler. I'm 'just' good enough to know how bad I am. Unless I'm hanging out at the alley on weekends trying to hustle kids at birthday parties...I'm to bad to make adjustments off my shots 2/3 of the time.

Part of the problem is your confidence and expectations.

Okay...again, ding ding ding....I think you're on to something...

You don't believe in yourself so you assume the problem was you when I think often times it's not it's what your trying to do.

Okay, that actually went in a different direction than I thought it would...but okay. Thanks!

I appreciate your and Rob's support, but much like dating...bowling and any other activity is all about expecations. I'd guess that at LEAST 90% of league bowlers are happier after bowling than they are before. They go, they have fun, sometimes they win 50/50, sometimes they have a good 200+ game, and they are glad to get out of the house and socialize.

10% CARE. 10% of bowlers range from the guy that is absolutely horrible but is really, really trying hard to get better and learns about the game and watches videos and tries to get better...but never goes that extra step of getting coaching. Then you have the guys that have just great natural ability and/or decades of bowling experience. They don't get lessons because they've thrown 12 300-games so they figure they're just a surgery or new ball away from the next level. Then you have the folks that are professionals...or at some stage of pro bowling success...whether a regional guy on the way up or a regional guy on the way down.

And finally, you have me...what I like to call, "The Dreamers". They study, they practice, they learn, they get coaching...but they just don't have "it". Iceman called I the Gift. And honestly, I thought at the time...like most times...that he was full of poo....and he still is on most every topic. But maybe he was right about the "Gift".

Could I be a solid #3 or #4 bowler on a league team that kinda thinks they have a shot at finishing in 1st place in some loser handicap league?? Could I be one of the better no-tap bowlers in some weeknight pizza league? Sure. But enter..."expectations". And that's where everything falls apart. I'm a 170s bowler. I can dazzle folks all day with fancy talk and analysis...I can point to my improvement over just over 2 years...I can impress casual bowlers...I can even win brackets half the time. I'm even good enough to give some helpful advice from time to time. But I am woefully lacking in skill to compete at the level I someday hope to compete at. And that "dream" is only possible if I can start taking some real steps forward. I have short, intermediate, and long-term goals...but if I can't even hit the short-term ones...the others don't matter.

Compare me to John Burkett. He started late (post-baseball), learned a lot, had the will to succeed and was humble enough to be able to learn...yet he's one of the top PBA50 bowlers and I'm not even good enough to join an amateur tournament or even be on a decent scratch team. Gift? Maybe.

My approach is very, very fair. I expect to make a perfect shot every time. I know I won't...but if I want to meet some of my expectations...that's what I need to do. Not 1/3 of the time. Not "only when it matters". Every shot, every frame. I am FAIR to my arsenal in that way. I'm never going to blame a ball if I can't make it work....because I know high level bowlers can bowl with a house ball and easily roll a 630 series on a THS. BUT....if I make a perfect shot (or close)...and it doesn't carry...then it's the ball or the line. But I won't criticize the ball if I can't execute. Execution is on me.

People want to "bowl for fun"...more power to em. Go bowl a 420 series and if you have fun...I'm all for it. I love the game. But a sub-500 series on a THS from a bowler with my intellect, my lack of any serious physical constraints, and with the coaching I've been blessed to have received? Unacceptable and NOT FUN.