Diary of Madman

[NewToBowling]

I do agree that form or technique is secondary. Consistency is the key. As long as you consistently hit the pocket but throw it ugly as heck it really doesn't matter. Of course there are certain ways to go about it to improve consistency but overall if you're comfortable throwing it a certain way I would be the last person to tell you to stop. Form isn't as important as in other sports.

Volleyball is my other sport and I can easily tell someone isn't a "real" volleyball player when I see them play on TV or a movie as they just don't have the form. There is a certain way you bump, serve, or spike that looks odd when someone tries to emulate it. And you can't really get any better if you don't have the fundamentals down.

In bowling you can cheat a bit due to the walled up house shots and hypersonic super-powered bowling balls

[Amyers]

Having proper form and technique can be an aid in having good accuracy and higher rev rates but it's not mandatory. You can find many Pro bowlers who have improper form or technique in certain areas. Does that mean you should abandon trying for proper form? No but you can strive for proper form to the point you are no longer loose and fluid. Many of these form techniques have to be mastered to the point of being muscle memory you can't be thinking about them.

There is some merit to what your saying about high power/high rev bowlers being able to just blow it up and it doesn't really matter where they hit but most of the guys I know who have mastered that put a lot of hours and years in to do it. They didn't just pick up a ball and start throwing it like that.

You know as well as I do what most scratch bowlers think of handicap tournaments. If you want to be a bagger go ahead no ones stopping you but I personally want more from bowling than winning some third rate tournament that no one cares about.

Coaching is good. It will help speed up development but it's not a panacea. It still takes time and experience to become an above average bowler. I'm not sure why you think this game should be easy. I took a long break form bowling (20 years) but I've still almost bowled more years than I haven't and we're pretty close average wise. Seems to me your not doing too bad for someone who's still a newbie. If there was video of me bowling in my third year of junior league my guess would be your form looks better than mine did then (video camera's weren't mainstream then).

I don't know do I know a few guys who pick up a ball and average in the low 200's in a year or so? Yeah but most of them if you get them out of that one house or change the conditions slightly they fall apart. Pretty much all of the 210+ average guys here bowl multiple leagues and do practice maybe not as much as I do but they do practice. A lot of those guys with the funky deliveries that still average high have spent years developing it too. One of the guys I bowl with has some birth defects and bowls wrong footed (averages about 220) completely smooth but has a hop step at the end to switch feet where both feet are actually of the floor. I asked him about it he bowled 25-50 games a day 3 days a week for almost 2 years to develop his game. I asked him why he was willing to put that much money and work into bowling. His response was what other sport can a short black guy who walks with a limp be a high level competitor at?

[fortheloveofbowling]

What you have done is gained 10-15 years worth of potential experience in 3 years. But, as a lot of league bowlers do you have not allowed yourself to understand and learn the game. Unlike you most league bowlers really don't have a great interest in getting to a higher level of competition. With all of your pre conceived notions in all areas of the game and constant wonderment as to why they notions don't play out it has hindered your ability to observe what is in front of your face.

[Blacksox1]

AlexNC wins the internet weekly prize with this! Keep up the good work.

[Aslan]

His response was what other sport can a short black guy who walks with a limp be a high level competitor at?

That is both the most inspiring message...and most depressing statement about bowling I have ever heard.

[Tony]

Quote Originally Posted by Tony
And just to clarify if he's that good at 70 something think how great he was when he was 40 or 50, probably a lot better than he is now, age has a way of slowing you down....

ASLAN
By that logic, the old 220 average bowler used to average 600 per game when he was young. ????? No...he was younger and dumber and averaged in the 160s...but slowly got better over time and thank the Lord his health has held up.

TONY
You couldn't be further from the truth, are you sure you read what I wrote correctly? This isn't conjecture on my part, I bowl with a number of guys whom I've seen progress through the years and inevitably in the late sixties and early 70 their games decline meaning that they indeed were even better bowlers when they were younger.

Just because you haven't attained the average you seem to think you deserve after bowling for a few years you don't have to disrespect the accomplishments of others.
Lets get another thing straight not all other sports do not recognize knowledge of the game !
Have you ever watched football, baseball or basketball ? If you had you would have noticed that some of those guys can barely spell their name, undoubtedly there are thousands if not millions of people that know the rules, equipment, correct stance, form , strategy, or statistics of the game better than some of these players. Does that translate into them being able to hit a 3 pointer, catch a pass from an NFL quarterback, hit a home run or run a 4.4 -40 ? Heck NO!
If you think knowledge of the sport alone makes anyone a great player, you are sadly mistaken! Will it make you a better player, maybe , maybe not. It certainly won't make a marginal player into a superstar.

Think about what you're saying, deciding bowlers that are better than you don't deserve to be better because you know more about the game (in your opinion) is incredibly condescending and foolish at the same time.

Not that you're the only person like that, a couple of days ago I heard a comment about a talented bowler that I would have sworn you could have said.
A guy I bowl with has a grandson that just set the "all-time high average" high school bowling record with a 252 average

We were taking about it and one guy says " it's no wonder his grandpa owns a bowling alley and his dad manages it"
Seriously, you think the kid is an outstanding bowler only because his grandfather and father are in the bowling industry.

http://www.ushsbf.org/

Grow up and stop telling other people that they don't deserve what they have accomplished, just because you don't think they should be that good going about the way they are doing it.

I'm sure some of those guys who don't know what they are doing get great satisfaction kicking your butt. In fact I know it, I used to play golf with my Father on a local 9 hole course (3300 yard par 37) before he passed away, I can recall several times when we were paired up with hotshot golfers who had a big swing and a big head. My dad who was in his 80's would tell them before the first shot. I apologize if I slow you down, I'm an old man who walks a little slowly and plays for fun. They would always let him tee off first and he would hit the ball right down the middle of the fairway.
Around here the custom is low score on the hole tee's off first on the next hole. Little did they know this little old guy shot par golf and they sometimes wouldn't get a chance to tee off first all day, and to add insult they would finish a few strokes behind him ! Don't think for one second he didn't enjoy it, often on the last hole he would give them advice on the virtue of taking the ball on the shortest most direct route to the hole. More than once he feigned surprise when he asked them " you know lowest score wins, right ?" Do you know when he started playing golf, when he got clubs for his retirement at 65, did he know equipment or theory of golf ball technology or have a single golf lesson? NO he figured it out and played his way. I'm sure some of the big swing , big head guys he beat said that little old man doesn't even know how to golf properly.....maybe not but he beat you, so give him a little respect, he EARNED it. You have to earn it too!

[Jessiewoodard57]

Aslan I have a horrible average and have a whole bunch of issues that a standard bowler would not have since I bowl from a wheel chair. Try lining a powerchair at the same board that produced your best line to the pocket and resulted in your last strike. So not easy. I have spent way too much on this and that bowling ball trying to improve my game. In the end I have decided the only thing that really matters is "Am I having fun" I could sit home get to be a bitter old man and feel sorry for myself but I get to get out and encourage the younger crowd to bowl and enjoy themselves. I have rolled a 231 and man it felt good to have a bunch of people congratulate me on a great game. I'm out in a crowd of really nice people making friends and enjoying life. I almost did not join a league for embarrassment of being a disabled horrible bowler but I have met some really good people that have become fast friends so it was well worth it. Do I have bad days when I want to roll my bag out to the dumpster and toss it YUP but I have a whole lot more of the good days. Hang in there my friend this to shall pass.

[Aslan]

This isn't conjecture on my part, I bowl with a number of guys whom I've seen progress through the years and inevitably in the late sixties and early 70 their games decline meaning that they indeed were even better bowlers when they were younger.

Your logic is a fallacy. You claim that your opinion is valid because you know a number of guys that support your belief. I know a great number that provide evidence to the contrary. Which of us is correct? You and your examples or me and mine.

The only way your conclusion is true, is if you factor in age and how in general our bodies limit us at some point. But that wasn't the argument you were making (I don't think). So, yes...an older bowler probably had a body that was in better shape in their youth and therefore...despite any knowledge of the game...they were technically better before than now.

Just because you haven't attained the average you seem to think you deserve after bowling for a few years you don't have to disrespect the accomplishments of others.

Only if the accomplishments are earned.

Maybe I'm not making my point. It's Monday morning, what can I say. But think about it this way. Lets say "Fred Flinstone" bowls 10,000 games. Never takes a lesson. Never learns about bowling balls. Still throws the same rock he got out of the quarry 20 years ago. One magical evening...he throws a perfect game. Did he "earn" it? Or was he just playing the numbers? If you do something 10,000 times...eventually even a broken clock is right. Am I demeaning Fred by not respecting his "accomplishment"? Is a person deserving of accolades for simply living long enough that statistically they finally strike gold?

Lets get another thing straight not all other sports do not recognize knowledge of the game !
Have you ever watched football, baseball or basketball ? If you had you would have noticed that some of those guys can barely spell their name,

You're confusing intelligence with knowledge. Most professional athletes are not Cambridge educated scholars. But there's a difference between those sports and bowling. The sport of bowling and equipment involved as evolved greatly. I many ways, and this has been argued a great deal back and forth, there is some serious concern that the sport has been harmed by such things. For example, it still isn't an Olympic sport. One (of many) reasons often cited is there is too much influence on bowler's performance related to non-performance things such as ball technology, wrist braces, gloves, surfacing, etc... When baseball adds pine tar to the bat or ball, adds cork to the bats, or makes the balls easier to hit home runs...its often viewed negatively and players are penalized. In bowling...not only can you have a wide variety of equipment...but you can also change outcomes with pin weights or lane conditions. Perfectly legal. We went from wiping oil and dirt off our bowling balls to people soaking their bowling balls (which was made illegal), back to wiping, then to sanding between shots (which is technically illegal), back to wiping again.

The reason I bring that up is....if your sport depends a great deal on technology....you MUST learn about that technology to be successful. Nascar drivers aren't just go kart drivers that get asked to sit in a car in a Nascar race. You have to have a pretty darn good knowledge of cars to drive in that environment. Some know more technical stuff than others...but there's no old guy sitting in Car #14 that doesn't understand what "fuel injected" means.

If you think knowledge of the sport alone makes anyone a great player, you are sadly mistaken! Will it make you a better player, maybe , maybe not. It certainly won't make a marginal player into a superstar.

Ahhhh! Finally!! We're back to "The Gift"!!! Iceman would be proud. I can't disagree with ya Tony. And neither would Iceman. Either you have the "Gift" or you don't. Iceman was a firm believer that lessons were a foolish waste of resources and if you can't step on those lanes and use your god gifted physical talents to succeed...pick a different activity. Iceman would endorse you 100%!!

Funny Story: RobM was nice enough to give (free) both me and Iceman a lesson the day after "The Aslan vs. Iceman Challenge". Long story short, Rob almost killed him. Rob was simply trying to help Iceman with his footwork....but this "knowledge" was so foreign to Iceman and his "gifted approach"...that Iceman got his feet tangled up and fell down. It would have been funny...but at Iceman's age....falls can be rather serious...so I didn't laugh until I knew he was okay. Knowledge and coaching....they're like kryptonite to The Gift!!!

Think about what you're saying, deciding bowlers that are better than you don't deserve to be better because you know more about the game (in your opinion) is incredibly condescending and foolish at the same time.

I'll compromise and agree on the condescending, but I can't agree on foolish. I believe it just as condescending and foolish for people to get excited that they can average 200+ on easy conditions in one house when they can't even explain the basics regarding bowling ball motion, specs, etc...

Not that you're the only person like that, a couple of days ago I heard a comment about a talented bowler that I would have sworn you could have said.
A guy I bowl with has a grandson that just set the "all-time high average" high school bowling record with a 252 average

We were taking about it and one guy says " it's no wonder his grandpa owns a bowling alley and his dad manages it"
Seriously, you think the kid is an outstanding bowler only because his grandfather and father are in the bowling industry.

Is PDW a great bowler because his father was? Is Kyle Troup a better bowler because his father was? I'm gonna say yes. Does that mean had their fathers not been in the PBA they'd be horrible?? Of course not. But the combination of genetics and access to bowling at a young age are certainly factors to consider.

Grow up and stop telling other people that they don't deserve what they have accomplished, just because you don't think they should be that good going about the way they are doing it.

Most people could care less my opinion of their bowling success. I've never told anyone they don't "deserve" something...I just think that one of the many reasons bowling is in the decline is the sport element is fading and it's now more of a "hobby" or "activity" than a sport. Bowling went from being like boxing or tennis...to something like poker.

I'm sure some of those guys who don't know what they are doing get great satisfaction kicking your butt.

Given. But fortunately they won't leave their home centers to do it. Ask MWhite how it went when he left the safe confines of Arlington Lanes to bowl against me on wood lanes. Am I a better bowler than MWhite....NOPE. But if I can erase his home field advantage...I at least got a shot. There's nobody on this site; with the exception of VDubtx and the pro bowlers/staffers that stop in once or twice a month to post a ball reaction commercial...that I can't beat over 3 games in a neutral house.

I don't know if you were here back when we were doing the Virtual Bowling Tour (VBT) but it was the same thing there. It was a real cool idea and cool concept...but it almost didn't even get off the ground because once people realized they'd have to bowl somewhere other than one of their home centers....suddenly the whine-fest began!! "That center is too far away!" "That center is in a bad neighborhood!" "That center is old!" That center is junky or poorly managed!" "Why can't we just use our league scores!?" Whine...whine...whine...which can all be summed up as, "If you change where I bowl....I can't bowl." And who were in the finals you ask?

MWhite vs. VDubtx

Arguably the two best bowlers on the site. So, the cream DID rise to the top...as it should. But wow...you ask a 190+ average bowler to bowl at another house...and you'd think you're asking them to fly a spaceship to the moon.

However you wanna characterize my opinion, the simple truth of the matter (as I see it) is the sport is going to remain in decline so long as the bowlers at the highest levels of league play...are rewarded not for their skill set, knowledge, and practice and instead are rewarded simply for longevity.

I bowled against 4 seniors yesterday afternoon in a tournament. There was a friendly guy there...I really wanted to help him...because he was really, really struggling on the dry conditions. But I already learned that lesson and I just kept my mouth shut. He's not going to listen to me anyways. Just like my former teammate. He'll just keep repeating "These lanes are so dry...even my plastic ball is hooking left of the headpin!"

It's the common problem husbands and wives have because men and women are just wired differently. A woman starts complaining and droning on about all kinds of problems....and as men our initial response is to try and help them fix their problem. That is our task in life...our task at work...it's how we're wired. But women (like old men who bowl) don't WANT you to give them the solution or offer them advice. They just want you to listen to their problem, nod in a manner that makes you at least appear to be empathetic, then move on.

Don't get your panties too much in a bunch Tony...my opinion means a LOT less than people sometimes make it seem.

[Tony]

Don't get your panties too much in a bunch Tony...my opinion means a LOT less than people sometimes make it seem.

Just offering a counterpoint to encourage you to reflect on the comments you've made that seem to indicate that your average should be better than it is, the simple answer is that you're responsible for the average you hold, nobody else.

For the record I don't value your opinion as much as you think I might. I'm pretty sure that any perceived value you think your opinion has to me, is mostly in your own head.


Allowing the fact that "subpar" bowlers are better than you to have a detrimental effect on your attitude or game is one of the things holding you back. Stop letting them influence your attitude, gauge your progress on improving your own game and beating those players that are a little better than you.

As for the boast you can beat everyone here but Vdub and a few pro's ...uncontrolled laughter, you have no idea how well some of these guys shoot at houses outside of their own, I seriously doubt you can even beat me much less some of the higher average bowlers.

[shadd]

...There's nobody on this site; with the exception of VDubtx and the pro bowlers/staffers that stop in once or twice a month to post a ball reaction commercial...that I can't beat over 3 games in a neutral house...

Is this this real life? This can't be real life right?!?!

I look at quite a few score threads and there are A LOT of guys stringing together multiple 6 and even 700 series at different houses, saying something like that takes a fair amount of douche-baggery...just sayin'.

It's douchey things like this that are the exact opposite of endearing.

Hopefully you can break out of your slump so you can beat everyone on the site in the neutral site imaginary matches, good luck!