What Do You Think About This? Strange League Situation

[jab5325]

One of my leagues is a handicap Thursday night league (full season) filled with loud drunks. Most are great guys, but they're clearly not interested in doing well or getting better. You've probably seen my posts complaining about this league before. Four man teams, 8 team league, by the way. My team finished in first comfortably during the first round.

At the conclusion of last year's league, there was discussion about what to do in 15-16 due to missing 3 holiday weeks (Thanksgiving, Xmas, New Year's). At the league banquet, the possibility of making up a week or two or going a week or two longer. There was no motion or vote taken.

During the captain's meeting prior to the 15-16 start, it was again discussed but never motioned or voted on. Some were in favor of doing nothing and going 3 weeks longer, and some were in favor of making up nights because of the possibility of snow cancellations.

When Thanksgiving came around, there was zero discussion about making it up. It was never a thought in anyone's mind.

On January 7, during the third game, the league treasurer/secretary came around and told everyone we had to make up Christmas Eve prior to January 14, and we had to do it as a team. Not one person in the league was aware of this. Everyone was scrambling to make it up. Two teams, mine included, could not make up the time.

Fast forward to January 14, last week--there was another captain's meeting to discuss the situation beforehand. The motion on the floor was to allow the two teams until the end of the season to make up Christmas Eve, and allow ALL teams to make up New Year's eve by the end of the season.

One captain was pissed to the point things got heated. His team, placed 5th out of 8, was able to bowl over the weekend, and bowled terribly. He was insistent that his team be able to throw out their scores and re-bowl. This team has one good bowler (200+), one 190 bowler, and the rest below 165. Another captain chimed in that he didn't think those that didn't bowl should be able to make it up either.

Myself and the other captain whose team didn't make it up spoke up, said we didn't think that it was a huge issue and while we'd like to make it up, we weren't going to throw a hissy fit if we had to forfeit. Coincidentally, the other team who didn't make it up was in second place, with a comfortable distance over third (this league is very top heavy). We both said we understood that our teams would still pay the dues, and tried to point out that no vote was taken and no decision was made.

The treasurer/secretary then admitted he made an "executive decision" on the makeup for Christmas Eve, and a motion was made to not allow makeup for Christmas Eve in any fashion, and give all teams the ability to make up New Year's before the end of the season. It carried 6-2, with the obvious dissenting votes being myself and the other captain who didn't bowl.

What do you all think of this situation? What was "right", and are there any USBC rules that govern this? On my team, two guy work weekends and overtime at an apartment complex and snow removal, I was ill, and the 4th guy was out of town. There was absolutely no way we could've made it up--two of our guys were bowling Monday and Wednesday the following week, and two were working Tuesday night.

To be clear, I really don't care and am not looking to make a stink about this. Both my team and the second place team should easily finish 1-2 again. I like everybody in the league on a personal level. But, my team and I were 95% sure we weren't going to bowl in this league again next year....and this whole thing sealed the deal.

[AlexNC]

I would be curious to know if you received a copy of rules for this league at your league meeting at the beginning of the season and if so how this situation falls inline with that. USBC rules mention windows for postponements etc., but it would seem like this should have been addressed calendar wise in advance with the way those holidays fell on certain days.

[jab5325]

I would be curious to know if you received a copy of rules for this league at your league meeting at the beginning of the season and if so how this situation falls inline with that. USBC rules mention windows for postponements etc., but it would seem like this should have been addressed calendar wise in advance with the way those holidays fell on certain days.

The league rules do state that pre-bowling must be done in the preceeding week.

There is nothing there about holiday makeups.

[bowl1820]

At the conclusion of last year's league, there was discussion about what to do in 15-16 due to missing 3 holiday weeks (Thanksgiving, Xmas, New Year's). At the league banquet, the possibility of making up a week or two or going a week or two longer. There was no motion or vote taken.

During the captain's meeting prior to the 15-16 start, it was again discussed but never motioned or voted on. Some were in favor of doing nothing and going 3 weeks longer, and some were in favor of making up nights because of the possibility of snow cancellations.

They couldn't have vote, because no one made motion. After the discussion why didn't you (or your captain if your not captain) or someone else make a motion?

Also the "making up nights because of the possibility of snow cancellations" would be separate issue from the missing the holiday nights issue and would need it's own separate discussion and vote.

When Thanksgiving came around, there was zero discussion about making it up. It was never a thought in anyone's mind.

Well it wasn't discussed because you and no one else brought it up for discussion.

That's the big problem in a lot league meetings, the bowler's don't want to get involved.

On January 7, during the third game, the league treasurer/secretary came around and told everyone we had to make up Christmas Eve prior to January 14, and we had to do it as a team. Not one person in the league was aware of this. Everyone was scrambling to make it up. Two teams, mine included, could not make up the time.

Fast forward to January 14, last week--there was another captain's meeting to discuss the situation beforehand. The motion on the floor was to allow the two teams until the end of the season to make up Christmas Eve, and allow ALL teams to make up New Year's eve by the end of the season.

One captain was pissed to the point things got heated. His team, placed 5th out of 8, was able to bowl over the weekend, and bowled terribly. He was insistent that his team be able to throw out their scores and re-bowl. This team has one good bowler (200+), one 190 bowler, and the rest below 165. Another captain chimed in that he didn't think those that didn't bowl should be able to make it up either.

Myself and the other captain whose team didn't make it up spoke up, said we didn't think that it was a huge issue and while we'd like to make it up, we weren't going to throw a hissy fit if we had to forfeit. Coincidentally, the other team who didn't make it up was in second place, with a comfortable distance over third (this league is very top heavy). We both said we understood that our teams would still pay the dues, and tried to point out that no vote was taken and no decision was made.

The treasurer/secretary then admitted he made an "executive decision" on the makeup for Christmas Eve, and a motion was made to not allow makeup for Christmas Eve in any fashion, and give all teams the ability to make up New Year's before the end of the season. It carried 6-2, with the obvious dissenting votes being myself and the other captain who didn't bowl.

What do you all think of this situation? What was "right", and are there any USBC rules that govern this? On my team, two guy work weekends and overtime at an apartment complex and snow removal, I was ill, and the 4th guy was out of town. There was absolutely no way we could've made it up--two of our guys were bowling Monday and Wednesday the following week, and two were working Tuesday night.

To be clear, I really don't care and am not looking to make a stink about this. Both my team and the second place team should easily finish 1-2 again. I like everybody in the league on a personal level. But, my team and I were 95% sure we weren't going to bowl in this league again next year....and this whole thing sealed the deal.

Making up games that were never scheduled in the first place, The treasurer/secretary making an "executive decision".

Everything is totally messed up and not even remotely handled properly or by the rules!

This all should have been handled at the organizational meeting at the start of the league.

Since there was no provision made in the rules for the holiday nights and not scheduled to be bowled on in the first place, you don't make them up. To do so after the fact would require a change to the league rules, which would require a vote. The Sec/Treas. just can't make a "executive decision"

From Rule 122 - Meetings
"After the league schedule begins, a change in the league rules and approved prize list can be made only with the written consent of every team captain or designated representative."

[Tony]

After running into the holiday situation in leagues before we always voted to either skip making up the games or extending the season
to cover the missed games, the house always suggested extending the season because of course it's revenue for them if we bowl the 33 weeks that
league is scheduled to bowl.
I've never experienced a situation where one person decided that the bowling had to be made up and when / how it had to be done.
Obviously it should have been put to a vote at some point and the league should have decided as a group what to do.
In the case where you are now the first set of makeup games should all be thrown out as it was never voted upon, and the second group that was voted on should proceed as decided by the league.

[jab5325]

They couldn't have vote, because no one made motion. After the discussion why didn't you (or your captain if your not captain) or someone else make a motion?

Also the "making up nights because of the possibility of snow cancellations" would be separate issue from the missing the holiday nights issue and would need it's own separate discussion and vote.


Well it wasn't discussed because you and no one else brought it up for discussion.

That's the big problem in a lot league meetings, the bowler's don't want to get involved.




Making up games that were never scheduled in the first place, The treasurer/secretary making an "executive decision".

Everything is totally messed up and not even remotely handled properly or by the rules!

This all should have been handled at the organizational meeting at the start of the league.

Since there was no provision made in the rules for the holiday nights and not scheduled to be bowled on in the first place, you don't make them up. To do so after the fact would require a change to the league rules, which would require a vote. The Sec/Treas. just can't make a "executive decision"

From Rule 122 - Meetings
"After the league schedule begins, a change in the league rules and approved prize list can be made only with the written consent of every team captain or designated representative."

After running into the holiday situation in leagues before we always voted to either skip making up the games or extending the season
to cover the missed games, the house always suggested extending the season because of course it's revenue for them if we bowl the 33 weeks that
league is scheduled to bowl.
I've never experienced a situation where one person decided that the bowling had to be made up and when / how it had to be done.
Obviously it should have been put to a vote at some point and the league should have decided as a group what to do.
In the case where you are now the first set of makeup games should all be thrown out as it was never voted upon, and the second group that was voted on should proceed as decided by the league.

Thanks all.

1820, you are right, everything is messed up and not handled well.

Myself and the other captain could've easily made a motion. I can't speak for him.......but in my own shoes, I didn't actually think what happened was going to actually happen. Seeing guys, who suck at bowling anyway, act like Rash/Belmo was comical to me. I'm "new" to this league, and the other captains have been there for literally 15+ years. So while I know that I have just as much to say about rules, motions, etc. as the rest of them.....I feel awkward doing so. It's completely on me, and not on them--I'm not trying to deflect, just telling it like it is in my mind.

Like I said, I couldn't believe I was seeing what I was seeing. It almost ended in fisticuffs. I actually came home and told my wife, and she laughed like heck.

It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the season plays out. This league was 12 teams a couple of years ago, 10 last year, and 7 to start this year (an 8th was "put together" after the start). It's entirely possible this league could be down to 6, because my team sure as heck isn't coming back.

[bowl1820]

A good question would be why did they all of a sudden start trying to "make up" games?

I assume somebody did some figuring and thought they might improve their standing with those games.

Is this a USBC sanctioned league?


To rephrase Edmund Burke:
"The only thing necessary for a bowling league to get screwed up is for players to not get involved."

[jab5325]

A good question would be why did they all of a sudden start trying to "make up" games?

I assume somebody did some figuring and thought they might improve their standing with those games.

Is this a USBC sanctioned league?


To rephrase Edmund Burke:
"The only thing necessary for a bowling league to get screwed up is for players to not get involved."

Yes, it's USBC-sanctioned.

As I've posted here earlier, this league is "special". It started out as a league for employees of a certain institution, and as they died off/quit, the league started adding "outsiders" several years ago. Numbers are now dwindling again, big time. Last year, a team had a cowbell that was rung constantly. This year, they started blasting crappy country music during league play. It's just a bunch of guys who do nothing but drink an entire case of beer or a few fifths a night......which is why it's so funny to me that all of a sudden, people cared about bowling.

You are probably correct about someone taking a look at scores.

[fordman1]

First thing you do is get in touch with your local USBC assn. Explain it to them. You can't change rules after the league starts unless it is 100% OK by all the Capt's.
Then if it was OK you still are not allowed to throw out the scores that were made up. Once bowled they are part of the record. What a mess. SEE THE 1st PART OF THE POST.

[jab5325]

First thing you do is get in touch with your local USBC assn. Explain it to them. You can't change rules after the league starts unless it is 100% OK by all the Capt's.
Then if it was OK you still are not allowed to throw out the scores that were made up. Once bowled they are part of the record. What a mess. SEE THE 1st PART OF THE POST.

Thanks--again, this is totally on me.

If I cared more, I could've done something at the time or I'd be upset now. It's laughable at this point for me and my teammates.....I've never seen anything like it.