Your routine on reading the lanes on league night

[Aslan]

Your just dead wrong on the surface thing. I agree 150 average bowlers who can't hit their target don't need to experiment with surface but even bowlers of our ability should be maintaining their equipment and learning what works for them on different conditions. For some reason you just never have grasped the concept that the OOB condition of the bowling ball isn't magical it changes just the same way as a surface you apply so unless you want your entire arsenal surfaced at 4500-5000 grit (because that's where they change too) you've got to periodically refresh and resurface your balls regardless of whether it's the OOB finish or one you picked it doesn't matter. How hard is it really to keep a Abaron pad in your bag and it hit the ball with it every 5-10 games and pay $25 to have it resurfaced by the proshop every 40-50 games?

1) I'm not just speaking from "theory". I already did this. My last arsenal was a nightly resurfacing with abralon pads. I was the only guy on the lanes doing it...in either league...but I would change the surface...keep hitting those balls with lower and lower abralon...trying to get them to make that turn.

It wasn't until I started to at least begin to understand the concept of "losing energy" that I started to realize I was actually messing up the ball's ability to do what I wanted it to do. I took 5 balls...and made one of them useless (sanding the Pearl Encounter to 1000 abralon)...and probably didn't help things with 2 other ones. The other two I never sanded/messed with.

2) This isn't just my opinion. A tour pro at the PBA level looked at my arsenal...heard me explain the sanding I'd been doing...and commented that I was probably hurting myself more than helping.

If you want a long and hard breaking ball...you need less surface and a better release. If you add surface...you don't change how much the ball hooks, only where. And if you move outside towards the track or further...good luck having a surfaced ball retain enough energy to carry well. Can it? Sure. Pros sand the heck out of their balls. Granted, they throw 19-21mph and have 350-450rpms. They are constantly trying to find a way to get their balls to SLOW (like was mentioned in the video) so it can hook and then carry.

3) Surface, arsenals, etc....all great and cool ideas...for the < 2% of bowlers that bowl leages, bowl well (vs bowl drunk), and bowl in more than one house or in regular tournaments.

This is where Rob and I sometimes differ. It's not that RobM is wrong...he's rarely "wrong". But sometimes, he gives advice that he and other serious bowlers would be interested in. Why? Because that 2% are also his BTM readers. Drunk bowlers don't buy the subscription. But unfortunately, the topics usually go down a road where not only are they not as helpful to average/below average league bowlers...but in some ways could hurt those lower level bowlers because the concepts are just too advanced to be useful.

Why change a surface of a ball if you have 3 balls and bowl in one house? That's ridiculous. It's arguable whether you even need 3 balls. You find your track...it rarely changes...keep it simple right?

4) As I've already pointed out...and you are aware of...a hand surface change needs to be done every night. 1-7 games is about all you'll get out of a hand surface change. Yes, you can have the ball worked on in the pro shop every 50 games...but after 2-3 resurfacings...you coulda just got a new ball.

I just think most people/bowlers want a ball that goes long and snaps. If you add surface...in the absence of additional speed...there is physically no way (due to God and the laws of the Universe) that you can force a ball to go longer OR snap...by adding surface. And you'll end up in my situation...wet sanding balls with actual sandpaper...trying to make the ball turn rather than hit right of the headpin. And all that results...at BEST...is a ball that finds the pocket but has virtually no carry.

But it's all minutia...if you think about it. The ball doesn't matter. It's the biggest lie in bowling. The best bowler last night was throwing a weak ball released in 2000. He coulda thrown a house ball. He had bad form but a great release. He could pick up most non-split spares without much trouble. Game-Set-Match. Are balls different? Sure. But...put any ball in your hand...practice a little...now you know what line to play...and it's all about doing whatever you do consistently. If that's walking backwards or two-handing it between you legs or doing a little dance...who cares? Do whatever...throw whatever...just do it well...and like magic, you're the big winner!!

[Tony]

1)


But it's all minutia...if you think about it. The ball doesn't matter. It's the biggest lie in bowling. The best bowler last night was throwing a weak ball released in 2000. He coulda thrown a house ball. He had bad form but a great release. He could pick up most non-split spares without much trouble. Game-Set-Match. Are balls different? Sure. But...put any ball in your hand...practice a little...now you know what line to play...and it's all about doing whatever you do consistently. If that's walking backwards or two-handing it between you legs or doing a little dance...who cares? Do whatever...throw whatever...just do it well...and like magic, you're the big winner!!

Back a few years ago I was on a team where the custom was to shoot big splits between the legs, we got pretty good at it, one guy picked up a 7-10 one night....

I'm not sure about the little dance but I know a woman that sometimes does a cart-wheel on the approach after a strike.

If you want to try backwards take a look at this guy, he used to come down and practice after our wed night league, he's pretty good....

Please post video of the two handed between the legs shot !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex5iwpBHhdw

[Amyers]

1) I'm not just speaking from "theory". I already did this. My last arsenal was a nightly resurfacing with abralon pads. I was the only guy on the lanes doing it...in either league...but I would change the surface...keep hitting those balls with lower and lower abralon...trying to get them to make that turn.

It wasn't until I started to at least begin to understand the concept of "losing energy" that I started to realize I was actually messing up the ball's ability to do what I wanted it to do. I took 5 balls...and made one of them useless (sanding the Pearl Encounter to 1000 abralon)...and probably didn't help things with 2 other ones. The other two I never sanded/messed with.

2) This isn't just my opinion. A tour pro at the PBA level looked at my arsenal...heard me explain the sanding I'd been doing...and commented that I was probably hurting myself more than helping.

If you want a long and hard breaking ball...you need less surface and a better release. If you add surface...you don't change how much the ball hooks, only where. And if you move outside towards the track or further...good luck having a surfaced ball retain enough energy to carry well. Can it? Sure. Pros sand the heck out of their balls. Granted, they throw 19-21mph and have 350-450rpms. They are constantly trying to find a way to get their balls to SLOW (like was mentioned in the video) so it can hook and then carry.

3) Surface, arsenals, etc....all great and cool ideas...for the < 2% of bowlers that bowl leages, bowl well (vs bowl drunk), and bowl in more than one house or in regular tournaments.

This is where Rob and I sometimes differ. It's not that RobM is wrong...he's rarely "wrong". But sometimes, he gives advice that he and other serious bowlers would be interested in. Why? Because that 2% are also his BTM readers. Drunk bowlers don't buy the subscription. But unfortunately, the topics usually go down a road where not only are they not as helpful to average/below average league bowlers...but in some ways could hurt those lower level bowlers because the concepts are just too advanced to be useful.

Why change a surface of a ball if you have 3 balls and bowl in one house? That's ridiculous. It's arguable whether you even need 3 balls. You find your track...it rarely changes...keep it simple right?

4) As I've already pointed out...and you are aware of...a hand surface change needs to be done every night. 1-7 games is about all you'll get out of a hand surface change. Yes, you can have the ball worked on in the pro shop every 50 games...but after 2-3 resurfacings...you coulda just got a new ball.

I just think most people/bowlers want a ball that goes long and snaps. If you add surface...in the absence of additional speed...there is physically no way (due to God and the laws of the Universe) that you can force a ball to go longer OR snap...by adding surface. And you'll end up in my situation...wet sanding balls with actual sandpaper...trying to make the ball turn rather than hit right of the headpin. And all that results...at BEST...is a ball that finds the pocket but has virtually no carry.

But it's all minutia...if you think about it. The ball doesn't matter. It's the biggest lie in bowling. The best bowler last night was throwing a weak ball released in 2000. He coulda thrown a house ball. He had bad form but a great release. He could pick up most non-split spares without much trouble. Game-Set-Match. Are balls different? Sure. But...put any ball in your hand...practice a little...now you know what line to play...and it's all about doing whatever you do consistently. If that's walking backwards or two-handing it between you legs or doing a little dance...who cares? Do whatever...throw whatever...just do it well...and like magic, you're the big winner!!

This post shows exactly what one of your problems are. Your like a kid with a hammer that dries to drive a screw in a piece of wood and says that's to hard and throws the hammer away. When what you needed was a screw driver or a nail. I never advocated sanding your entire arsenal to 1000 grit if you go back and read your post I most likely told you that was nuts back then. I have never advocated adding surface to a ball to make it hook more either it actually the opposite. I don't have a single ball with 1000 grit on it and wouldn't suggest it for most bowlers on a house shot period. The lowest surface I have is 3k on anything with my speed I don't need more but that 3k surface still has to be maintained.

Even polished balls lose their ability to hook if you don't maintain the surface under that polish is typically 500 to 1000 grit that they use so the ball gets enough traction so it can hook those teeth through the polish are important and they wear away just like any other ball surface. Polished balls are more difficult to maintain because you can't just hit them by hand easily. At $25 for a resurface that's $75 dollars I can't buy a new ball for that and I know you can't and with as much as me and you bowl we'd be buying a new ball every other month I don't want to do that either.

I'm not sure why it is that when you do something incorrectly and figure out that it doesn't work that you just throw the baby out with the bath water and decide that it's bad. Were you using to much surface for your lane conditions before? Yes. Does that mean surface is useless? No.

If you don't keep up with the ball maintenance with as much as we bowl your surfaced balls end up at about 4500-5500 surface on them and your polished balls just lose their ability to do anything. As we know surface makes a huge difference in ball reaction what's the point in having an arsenal with 80 percent of your equipment with the same surface?

I know a few guys I wouldn't want to bowl for money against throwing a house ball but when we go to travel league and the scores count and they are playing brackets want to guess how many of them are throwing house balls? Zero.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Instead of focusing on this guy has a old ball and bad form how about thinking why is this guy scoring? When you see someone scoring well look at where they are playing, their speed, release etc. Then try to benefit from that information. Plenty of times i gain information from someones shot but to watch their approach would be a detriment to my game.

[Aslan]

At $25 for a resurface that's $75 dollars I can't buy a new ball for that and I know you can't and with as much as me and you bowl we'd be buying a new ball every other month I don't want to do that either.

Most balls I've purchased were under $80. There were a few that were free and 1-2 that were about $105.99...but yes, you can get a good, NIB, undrilled, first quality ball for < 4 resurfacings.

And yes, given the number of games I bowl...the simple math is: 800 games per year /25 (games until resurface) = 32 resurfacings at $25/resurface = $800. I could easily buy 3 new releases off the rack per year for that money...OR...given my philosophy that new balls are completely over-priced and balls just 6 months old could be gotten at a deep discount...that's more like 8 balls per year or 2 balls every 3 months...4 balls per season.

The flaw in the above math is technically the cost of the ball is about 60% and 40% is cost of drilling. So in reality, adding in drilling costs (ball is useless undrilled unless you're a palm bowler or something)...its more like 4 balls per year. So, resurface your balls every 25 games for a year...or 4 new, drilled bowling balls. I guess that's the ultimate choice.

I'm not sure why it is that when you do something incorrectly and figure out that it doesn't work that you just throw the baby out with the bath water and decide that it's bad. Were you using to much surface for your lane conditions before? Yes. Does that mean surface is useless? No.

Mainly it's historical reference. Everyone thinks these concepts are new...and they're not. And due to bowling and it's serious flaws...bowling doesn't reward the bowler that is the best at understanding surface changes, cover stock material, etc... Has your surface management strategy resulted in you outperforming the competition? Would you prefer being the best ball surface? Or have the best release?

You say it's "throwing the baby out with the bath water"...but it's not...it's accepting certain realities and the limitation of "time". Each thing in bowling that we devote ourselves to...whether it's improving a physical thing...building up knee strength, managing injuries, improving the approach or release, etc.. or perhaps focusing on improving something on the knowledge side...like ball motion, ball selection, ball specs, surfacing, etc...; whatever you focus on is at the expense of something else. Only the assumption of unlimited time...will solve that and there is no such thing without the invention of a time machine. And, since I've never heard of nor met nor read a story about an actual time traveler...guess what? Apparently they haven't been able to invent such a thing...or else someone probably would have come back and told us...but we certainly don't have one now.

So, what do you focus on? You say surfacing. Okay, you can have two more things...but only 2 more things. Ball selection? Now you have one more thing. Approach speed? You're done. Will surface knowledge, ball selection, and approach speed, WHEN improved, make you the top average bowler in your league? If yes, I am skeptical. If "no", then why not focus on something else?

If you don't keep up with the ball maintenance with as much as we bowl your surfaced balls end up at about 4500-5500 surface on them and your polished balls just lose their ability to do anything.

Mine start out that way as well as ending up that way.

[QUOTE=Amyers;138949]As we know surface makes a huge difference in ball reaction what's the point in having an arsenal with 80 percent of your equipment with the same surface? [/QUOTE[
If, again this depends on assumptions, but if we assume that cover stock material, cores, RG, and other ball specs are just meaningless fodder that bowling ball companies tell us to fill up brochures and 'sound smart'...then yes...you have 8 of the same balls if they all have the same surface. Granted...I must at least bring up the fact that...the above scenario hasn't been true since the invention of reactive resin...maybe even earlier than that.

I know a few guys I wouldn't want to bowl for money against throwing a house ball but when we go to travel league and the scores count and they are playing brackets want to guess how many of them are throwing house balls? Zero.

So is the surfacing advice for those that are at the travel league level? Maybe that's the disconnect. You're offering advice for the roughly 0.008% of bowlers that participate in travel leagues...of which I am not nor do I have the skills to be. Not saying you're wrong...just saying you're a car salesman going over the gear ratios of the newest Toyota Formula 1 race car and the people in the showroom just need to know where the key goes and what happens if they accidentally hit the red panic button.

Instead of focusing on this guy has a old ball and bad form how about thinking why is this guy scoring? When you see someone scoring well look at where they are playing, their speed, release etc. Then try to benefit from that information. Plenty of times i gain information from someones shot but to watch their approach would be a detriment to my game.

I don't know. He through essentially a urethane ball...revved it up super high...there appeared to be a break point somewhere in the back half of the lane....I can't really tell exactly where...I think the pattern is only about 27-28ft long and fairly narrow....so there's lots of dry to bounce balls off of. I have no idea what else I could learn from watching his ball reaction other than if ya spin the ball fast enough...eventually it'll hook and probably carry. And if you weigh 400lbs and fall off the shot each time...as long as you fall off your shot consistently (because apparently balance is over-rated)...you can do fairly well.

I don't want to emulate his approach and bowling stance. I'm already too big to fit in my bath tub. I look like ET in that bubble or a rescued manatee or something. I don't need another 170lbs added. And if I fell off my shot every time I'd eventually fall down. But yeah, zero handicap would be nice.

[AlexNC]

[Amyers]

[QUOTE=Aslan;139002]

Most balls I've purchased were under $80. There were a few that were free and 1-2 that were about $105.99...but yes, you can get a good, NIB, undrilled, first quality ball for < 4 resurfacings.

And yes, given the number of games I bowl...the simple math is: 800 games per year /25 (games until resurface) = 32 resurfacings at $25/resurface = $800. I could easily buy 3 new releases off the rack per year for that money...OR...given my philosophy that new balls are completely over-priced and balls just 6 months old could be gotten at a deep discount...that's more like 8 balls per year or 2 balls every 3 months...4 balls per season.

The flaw in the above math is technically the cost of the ball is about 60% and 40% is cost of drilling. So in reality, adding in drilling costs (ball is useless undrilled unless you're a palm bowler or something)...its more like 4 balls per year. So, resurface your balls every 25 games for a year...or 4 new, drilled bowling balls. I guess that's the ultimate choice.

No after drilling costs your looking at 175+ and you get 25 good games for that price then less performance for the next 25 and so on that's the point here

Mainly it's historical reference. Everyone thinks these concepts are new...and they're not. And due to bowling and it's serious flaws...bowling doesn't reward the bowler that is the best at understanding surface changes, cover stock material, etc... Has your surface management strategy resulted in you outperforming the competition? Would you prefer being the best ball surface? Or have the best release?

I will say that it allows me to bowl competitively with bowlers who are much better than I am in ability and form. I would say I'd rather have the right surface with and average release than I would the wrong surface with the best release

You say it's "throwing the baby out with the bath water"...but it's not...it's accepting certain realities and the limitation of "time". Each thing in bowling that we devote ourselves to...whether it's improving a physical thing...building up knee strength, managing injuries, improving the approach or release, etc.. or perhaps focusing on improving something on the knowledge side...like ball motion, ball selection, ball specs, surfacing, etc...; whatever you focus on is at the expense of something else. Only the assumption of unlimited time...will solve that and there is no such thing without the invention of a time machine. And, since I've never heard of nor met nor read a story about an actual time traveler...guess what? Apparently they haven't been able to invent such a thing...or else someone probably would have come back and told us...but we certainly don't have one now.

So, what do you focus on? You say surfacing. Okay, you can have two more things...but only 2 more things. Ball selection? Now you have one more thing. Approach speed? You're done. Will surface knowledge, ball selection, and approach speed, WHEN improved, make you the top average bowler in your league? If yes, I am skeptical. If "no", then why not focus on something else?

Surface isn't something you have to focus on. I'm not up on the lanes imagining myself sanding the ball. I'm not even saying to adjust your surfaces during warmups. Just keep them up.

Mine start out that way as well as ending up that way.

Where is it that you find these balls at pre worn condition are you buying your balls used now? Not one single ball in your arsenal has that as OOB condition.

As we know surface makes a huge difference in ball reaction what's the point in having an arsenal with 80 percent of your equipment with the same surface?

If, again this depends on assumptions, but if we assume that cover stock material, cores, RG, and other ball specs are just meaningless fodder that bowling ball companies tell us to fill up brochures and 'sound smart'...then yes...you have 8 of the same balls if they all have the same surface. Granted...I must at least bring up the fact that...the above scenario hasn't been true since the invention of reactive resin...maybe even earlier than that.

The surface is the same regardless of the type of material now the composition will be different but if you've allowed the pores to fill with oil and gunk doubt it really matters what that covers made out of.

So is the surfacing advice for those that are at the travel league level? Maybe that's the disconnect. You're offering advice for the roughly 0.008% of bowlers that participate in travel leagues...of which I am not nor do I have the skills to be. Not saying you're wrong...just saying you're a car salesman going over the gear ratios of the newest Toyota Formula 1 race car and the people in the showroom just need to know where the key goes and what happens if they accidentally hit the red panic button.

No this advice is for any one remotely serious about bowling. You bowl one league a week buy a new ball every six month don't worry about it you're probably not good enough to notice the difference anyway.

[Amyers]

Yeah just WOW that's all I can say.

[bowl1820]

The answer is simple, you buy your own spinner. For just a little more than the cost of a high end ball you can do your own resurfacing.

[Aslan]

The answer is simple, you buy your own spinner. For just a little more than the cost of a high end ball you can do your own resurfacing.

I've been tempted more than once. But at my skill level it makes very little sense.

And God FORBID anyone in leagues finds out I have one of those!! I already get ridiculed for practicing, taking lessons, taking notes, taking videos, and having undrilled balls in my closet...as well as subscriptions to bowling content online...add "owns his own ball spinner" to the list and, well...I'm done with it. I still might take another lesson just because I have one scheduled and the coaches I work with are a very high level...so if anyone can break me out of the slump it's them...but at some point reality has to be considered rather than ignored.

And the reality is...I'm much, much better at blogging or posting about bowling than I am at actually bowling. And I'm not that good at blogging/posting about it...so do the math.