USBC Declares Motiv Jackal/Jackal Challenge Approval Revoked

[RobLV1]

I'm still hearing about it non stop from a couple of bowlers with whom I bowl pot games. They are totally up in arms and are demanding that Motiv replace their balls right NOW. I asked one of them if he knew what the Differential is. He replied that it's some little thing in the core. ROFLMAO!

[jab5325]

I'm still hearing about it non stop from a couple of bowlers with whom I bowl pot games. They are totally up in arms and are demanding that Motiv replace their balls right NOW. I asked one of them if he knew what the Differential is. He replied that it's some little thing in the core. ROFLMAO!

If I had one of these balls, I'd be demanding an immediate replacement or refund too.

Despite initial pleasantries, Motiv isn't handling this well.

[dan moyer]

differential means nothing to me i'm not a ball designer i know only one thing i paid for a usbc approved ball and now it isn't motiv owes me one that is or my money back.

[Mike White]

I'm still hearing about it non stop from a couple of bowlers with whom I bowl pot games. They are totally up in arms and are demanding that Motiv replace their balls right NOW. I asked one of them if he knew what the Differential is. He replied that it's some little thing in the core. ROFLMAO!

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

You've produced more than your share of ROFLMAO(able) comments.

[Aslan]

I guess; 3 things:

1) MW...stop picking on Rob.

2) Either we have a rule or we don't.

3) Most conspiracy theories are people in tinfoil hats with way too much spare time...but most major conspiracies were exposed despite many people early on trying discourage people from 'wasting their time'.

On #2; I'm tired in bowling and in real life with a society having rules but being too gutless to change said rules...so they just decide not to enforce them. There are a pleothra of examples in politics and society not limited to prostitution and immigration. If you think it's mean to keep people out of the country...change the law and open the border. But if you think we need a border and shouldn't just let everyone in...then enforce the law. I don't agree with "The Donald" on "deporatation squads"...but he's hit a nerve with the country by simply pointing out..."either we have a border or we don't. either we have a law, or we don't"

Prostitution is the same thing. If I was tasked with finding 10 prostitutes in the next 6 hours...I probably could do it in less than 40 minutes. And it's not rocket science. Obviously, the police aren't concerned with it. And that's fine. But...if you think it's such a minor thing...decriminalize it. Either you have a rule or you don't. If you have some antiquated civil war era law that a woman who commits adultery should be fed to an crocodile...change the law. Otherwise, enforce it. Our politicians are cowards...they don't want to actually do their jobs...so they just decide on a case by case basis what to enforce and what not to enforce.

In the case of the USBC....there is a rule. That rule has a limit...just like blood alcohol levels. If you think 0.08 blood alcohol is too low a threshold...change the law. Otherwise...maybe don't do shots right before you leave the bar. The argument people are making about differential is the same argument drunks and drug addicts make when they get caught driving under the influence. That the limit is too low...they drive better when they are buzzed....etc... Do you think the cop listens to that and goes, "hmm..ya know...I'm not really sure how much of an effect alcohol has on this person's ability to drive safely...so I think I'll let him go. I mean, who's to say alcohol impairs him? He's a big guy." That NEVER happens. Because there is a rule...and that rule is enforced. It doesn't matter whether you know what differential means....it doesn't matter what effect it has on the ball...it DOESN'T MATTER. Motiv knew the rule. Motiv violated the rule. The USBC had to enforce the rule or risk a serious legal liability from other ball manufacturers and risk that none of their rules would be followed. If you don't like the rule, lobby to change it. Otherwise, FOLLOW IT.

As to #3;
Watergate was a minor issue. I'm sure many people told the pro-Democrat folks to drop it because it was just nonsense...giving Nixon the benefit of the doubt. Years later, we look at that as one of the biggest Presidential cover-ups of all time and one that led to a rare Presidential resignation. Lots of people want this to go away. Some because they don't care. Some because they don't like the USBC. Some because they LOVE Motiv. Some are Falkner or Fach fans. Some don't like me. Some just get annoyed with the topic. There are lots of reasons people lose interest. And going into this, I was 79% sure it was going to end with 'nothing'...no comments, no changes, just Motiv claiming they made a mistake...paying a slap on the wrist fine....the balls probably being re-instated. But the more I dig...the more questions get asked....the more statements we see from both sides...the odd silence from parties you'd expect to hear from...things just don't add up.

And the PBA and Motiv are to blame. The USBC just enforced a rule...that's all they did. The PBA is burying their head in the sand. And Motiv is running from room to room throwing water on fires. All of this could have been avoided with proper PR (public relations) and (if necessary) a more truthful response from Motiv at the onset. They have only themselves to blame. And I am just a guy who bowls...I doubt they'll respond to my letters. And if they do, I'm sure it'll be a carefully worded repeat of what they've already said. But...when the newspapers finally get past March Madness and Donald Trump and terrorist bombings...when a bored sportswriter at some paper finally comes across this story and decides to look into it...that's when we have a real chance at finding the TRUTH. And I fear by then, it'll be too late for Motiv. They needed to come clean early on...and they didn't...as far as I know. But my initial 21% chance that there is a scandal/conspiracy here...is now closer to 35%. There are things that are just not making sense.

[jab5325]

I guess; 3 things:

1) MW...stop picking on Rob.

2) Either we have a rule or we don't.

3) Most conspiracy theories are people in tinfoil hats with way too much spare time...but most major conspiracies were exposed despite many people early on trying discourage people from 'wasting their time'.

On #2; I'm tired in bowling and in real life with a society having rules but being too gutless to change said rules...so they just decide not to enforce them. There are a pleothra of examples in politics and society not limited to prostitution and immigration. If you think it's mean to keep people out of the country...change the law and open the border. But if you think we need a border and shouldn't just let everyone in...then enforce the law. I don't agree with "The Donald" on "deporatation squads"...but he's hit a nerve with the country by simply pointing out..."either we have a border or we don't. either we have a law, or we don't"

Prostitution is the same thing. If I was tasked with finding 10 prostitutes in the next 6 hours...I probably could do it in less than 40 minutes. And it's not rocket science. Obviously, the police aren't concerned with it. And that's fine. But...if you think it's such a minor thing...decriminalize it. Either you have a rule or you don't. If you have some antiquated civil war era law that a woman who commits adultery should be fed to an crocodile...change the law. Otherwise, enforce it. Our politicians are cowards...they don't want to actually do their jobs...so they just decide on a case by case basis what to enforce and what not to enforce.

In the case of the USBC....there is a rule. That rule has a limit...just like blood alcohol levels. If you think 0.08 blood alcohol is too low a threshold...change the law. Otherwise...maybe don't do shots right before you leave the bar. The argument people are making about differential is the same argument drunks and drug addicts make when they get caught driving under the influence. That the limit is too low...they drive better when they are buzzed....etc... Do you think the cop listens to that and goes, "hmm..ya know...I'm not really sure how much of an effect alcohol has on this person's ability to drive safely...so I think I'll let him go. I mean, who's to say alcohol impairs him? He's a big guy." That NEVER happens. Because there is a rule...and that rule is enforced. It doesn't matter whether you know what differential means....it doesn't matter what effect it has on the ball...it DOESN'T MATTER. Motiv knew the rule. Motiv violated the rule. The USBC had to enforce the rule or risk a serious legal liability from other ball manufacturers and risk that none of their rules would be followed. If you don't like the rule, lobby to change it. Otherwise, FOLLOW IT.

As to #3;
Watergate was a minor issue. I'm sure many people told the pro-Democrat folks to drop it because it was just nonsense...giving Nixon the benefit of the doubt. Years later, we look at that as one of the biggest Presidential cover-ups of all time and one that led to a rare Presidential resignation. Lots of people want this to go away. Some because they don't care. Some because they don't like the USBC. Some because they LOVE Motiv. Some are Falkner or Fach fans. Some don't like me. Some just get annoyed with the topic. There are lots of reasons people lose interest. And going into this, I was 79% sure it was going to end with 'nothing'...no comments, no changes, just Motiv claiming they made a mistake...paying a slap on the wrist fine....the balls probably being re-instated. But the more I dig...the more questions get asked....the more statements we see from both sides...the odd silence from parties you'd expect to hear from...things just don't add up.

And the PBA and Motiv are to blame. The USBC just enforced a rule...that's all they did. The PBA is burying their head in the sand. And Motiv is running from room to room throwing water on fires. All of this could have been avoided with proper PR (public relations) and (if necessary) a more truthful response from Motiv at the onset. They have only themselves to blame. And I am just a guy who bowls...I doubt they'll respond to my letters. And if they do, I'm sure it'll be a carefully worded repeat of what they've already said. But...when the newspapers finally get past March Madness and Donald Trump and terrorist bombings...when a bored sportswriter at some paper finally comes across this story and decides to look into it...that's when we have a real chance at finding the TRUTH. And I fear by then, it'll be too late for Motiv. They needed to come clean early on...and they didn't...as far as I know. But my initial 21% chance that there is a scandal/conspiracy here...is now closer to 35%. There are things that are just not making sense.

Impressive work, Aslan.

You managed to tie Dick Nixon/Watergate, prostitution, Donald Trump, drunk driving, and the PBA/USBC/Motiv fiasco all together in one post.

[Mike White]

I guess; 3 things:

1) MW...stop picking on Rob.

I wasn't picking on Rob other than to point out his hypocrisy.

Imagine how someone new here feels when they don't know what the differential is, and sees Rob ROTFLAMOing at someone else who only knows a little.

Now ask Rob what the differential does to a ball, and he'll get it wrong.

Show we then ROTFLMAO at him?

2) Either we have a rule or we don't.


In the case of the USBC....there is a rule. That rule has a limit...just like blood alcohol levels. If you think 0.08 blood alcohol is too low a threshold...change the law. Otherwise...maybe don't do shots right before you leave the bar. The argument people are making about differential is the same argument drunks and drug addicts make when they get caught driving under the influence. That the limit is too low...they drive better when they are buzzed....etc... Do you think the cop listens to that and goes, "hmm..ya know...I'm not really sure how much of an effect alcohol has on this person's ability to drive safely...so I think I'll let him go. I mean, who's to say alcohol impairs him? He's a big guy." That NEVER happens. Because there is a rule...and that rule is enforced. It doesn't matter whether you know what differential means....it doesn't matter what effect it has on the ball...it DOESN'T MATTER. Motiv knew the rule. Motiv violated the rule. The USBC had to enforce the rule or risk a serious legal liability from other ball manufacturers and risk that none of their rules would be followed. If you don't like the rule, lobby to change it. Otherwise, FOLLOW IT.

The problem with your analogy to blood alcohol is, the law is written in a different way for bowling balls.

It's as if the law said you're not allowed to walk into the bar with a 0.08 BAL, but they aren't testing you as you walk in, they aren't even testing you after stopping you because you were driving erratic.

They are going back to the bar and sample other people entering to determine the average BAL of those people, and if they fail, you get convicted.

[fordman1]

How exactly is the ball measured? What is the measurement? Is it inches, centimeters or weight? Does a machine do it or what?

[Aslan]

Impressive work, Aslan.

You managed to tie Dick Nixon/Watergate, prostitution, Donald Trump, drunk driving, and the PBA/USBC/Motiv fiasco all together in one post.

I aim to please.

Show we then ROTFLMAO at him?

Remember...attack the argument not the person. That's all I'm saying. I certainly have no solid ground to stand on regarding policing of behavior...just a suggestion...take it or leave it.

The problem with your analogy to blood alcohol is, the law is written in a different way for bowling balls.

It's as if the law said you're not allowed to walk into the bar with a 0.08 BAL, but they aren't testing you as you walk in, they aren't even testing you after stopping you because you were driving erratic.

They are going back to the bar and sample other people entering to determine the average BAL of those people, and if they fail, you get convicted.

I don't understand that analogy....other than you saying the standard SHOULD BE a post drilling/pre-event test of differential. The problem is;
1) The USBC doesn't test balls pre-event for non-USBC events.
2) There is not post-drilling standard.
3) This is a ball approval issue...pre-drilled.

The whole reason they field test is the same reason cops test drivers. Sure, I can go into a hospital lab and have then sample my blood for alcohol, it's clean, they give me a certificate that says I can now drive because I met the standard. But, as we are all well aware...I can then go to a bar and CHANGE my blood alcohol level. Motiv submitted samples that passed. Motiv then did SOMETHING or FAILED TO DO SOMETHING that led to them violating the standard. You can't test once and say "good to go" unless the company never manufactures that ball again...because as it is now starting to become clear...a company can knowingly change a ball post-certification.

It's just like emissions testing (for those oy you in poo states that test this). You can go get your car tested, pass, then take your muffler off. But the certificate is only good for 2-3 years...AND police CAN still ticket you if they stop you and feel you've tampered with your exhaust post-inspection.

I hope I'm wrong. I don't want to be right about this!! If Motiv intentionally manufactured balls that violated their USBC approval; and knowingly and willfully defrauded the PBA, it's competitors, and the sport in general....that's terrible news! Motiv is a success story...the little guy that picked up the pieces of a Brunswick factory and saved American jobs while producing innovative and popular products. And they are significant sponsors of the PWBA....which I love to watch more than the PBA National Tour. But until I see how Motiv did this accidentally...and how they plan to ensure it doesn't happen again...and until the PBA investigates this in terms of the two major titles that were stolen...Motiv is done something terrible (in my mind) and has seriously damaged themselves, hurt their customers, hurt their athletes, but more than anything...hurt the sport. And shame on them for that. I wish it wasn't them. I wish it was Storm. But it wasn't.

And this 'mindset' that a rule is only "really a rule" if it can have a major effect on the outcome...then why have rules at all? What other USBC and PBA rules are we going to freely violate because they don't "mean that much"? How about the PBA takes out about 1/4 of their rulebook that has to do with logo usage? How about fining their golden boy Belmo when he violates rules about making noises or throwing towels on other people's equipment? Maybe some lanes can be shorter or longer....maybe some pins made of metal...some a little heavier and some a little lighter. I mean, how much does pin weight really matter? Why not let some balls be bigger than others....ya still gotta hit the pocket right?

Ya don't like the rule...you think differential is silly...lobby to get rid of the spec. I'm sure if enough people as the USBC to increase it to 0.065 or get rid of it altogether...they'll get rid of it. No skin off their backs. But until that's done...it's a rule...follow it.

[bowl1820]

How exactly is the ball measured? What is the measurement? Is it inches, centimeters or weight? Does a machine do it or what?

If your mean how do they measure the differential then..

You need a RG Swing with timing mechanism and electric eye counter, Determinator and a Scale, plus misc items plus the Bowling Ball Radius of Gyration Worksheet which should include calibration information for the RG Swing being used

Here's the steps for do it:

Radius of Gyration (RG) of Asymmetrical Bowling Balls (SOP-BALL-1)
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn....Asymm%20RG.pdf

Radius of Gyration (RG) of a Symmetrical Bowling Ball (SOP-BALL-2)
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn....0Symm%20RG.pdf

You can see part of the process here