What would you do?

[Briantime]

Oh, dear, you haven't bowled in Milwaukee, have you?

I have not. Why? Is Milwaukee known for having leagues that are no fun?

[Timmyb]

I have not. Why? Is Milwaukee known for having leagues that are no fun?

There is so much sniveling, whining, and bitching in the league I'm in that it borders on ridiculous. We had to protest to post-bowl two weeks, because we hadn't been added as a team yet to the league. The league secretary was the one doing the most complaining about it. Turns out, when I went to look at the schedule, his team was one of the teams we would have had to bowl had we been there. Turns out, we ended up taking 25 of the 30 points that he thought should have been forfeited. He's been a d**k to us since. We're out of there when league is done.

Long story short, this is not the first time I've run into this cattiness with the higher average leagues around here. It's why I stopped bowling scratch leagues a long time ago.

[RobLV1]

The situation in our league is just the opposite. As I said, it's a huge league (60 teams that fill the center), and while some of the teams take the league a little bit seriously (it's a handicapped league, so taking it seriously is defined as showing up and keeping current with league fees), many do not. Unfortunately the league secretary is really not a bowler, a just does things the way they've always been done. The rule about having to notify the opposing team captain and giving the other team a chance to compete at the same time is a new rule. Unfortunately, the secretary didn't notice. The only reason that this rule was added is because of the 25' of head oil that that house puts down before league. Imagine bowling on a pair with 25' of oil, with criss-crosses of oil on the last 35' from the kids that bowled on bumpers all afternoon. Some pairs are virtually impossible, but if it's the same for both teams, then no-one really cares. If, however, a team is allowed to make up first thing in the morning on fresh oil, then they have an incredible advantage. If no-one says anything, then teams tend to take advantage.

[Timmyb]

The situation in our league is just the opposite. As I said, it's a huge league (60 teams that fill the center), and while some of the teams take the league a little bit seriously (it's a handicapped league, so taking it seriously is defined as showing up and keeping current with league fees), many do not. Unfortunately the league secretary is really not a bowler, a just does things the way they've always been done. The rule about having to notify the opposing team captain and giving the other team a chance to compete at the same time is a new rule. Unfortunately, the secretary didn't notice. The only reason that this rule was added is because of the 25' of head oil that that house puts down before league. Imagine bowling on a pair with 25' of oil, with criss-crosses of oil on the last 35' from the kids that bowled on bumpers all afternoon. Some pairs are virtually impossible, but if it's the same for both teams, then no-one really cares. If, however, a team is allowed to make up first thing in the morning on fresh oil, then they have an incredible advantage. If no-one says anything, then teams tend to take advantage.

I can imagine that gets to be an issue with the bigger houses you have there. The biggest house here now is 36 lanes. Most are 12, 16, maybe 24. I guess if you coop guys up in a smaller area, they get testy!

[Mike White]

The situation in our league is just the opposite. As I said, it's a huge league (60 teams that fill the center), and while some of the teams take the league a little bit seriously (it's a handicapped league, so taking it seriously is defined as showing up and keeping current with league fees), many do not. Unfortunately the league secretary is really not a bowler, a just does things the way they've always been done. The rule about having to notify the opposing team captain and giving the other team a chance to compete at the same time is a new rule. Unfortunately, the secretary didn't notice. The only reason that this rule was added is because of the 25' of head oil that that house puts down before league. Imagine bowling on a pair with 25' of oil, with criss-crosses of oil on the last 35' from the kids that bowled on bumpers all afternoon. Some pairs are virtually impossible, but if it's the same for both teams, then no-one really cares. If, however, a team is allowed to make up first thing in the morning on fresh oil, then they have an incredible advantage. If no-one says anything, then teams tend to take advantage.

Back in 89/90 during the limited distance dressing days, they only stripped the lanes on Tuesday Early am, and Friday Early am.

With the exception of Tuesday, and Friday, everyday was just oil on top of existing oil, with no cleaning.

I bowled on both Monday, and Thursday, which by your reasoning would be the worst days.

On Monday that season, I shot 300, 299, and a 771 high series which was high in that scratch league.

On Thursday that season, I shot a couple of 289s, and a 791 high series which was high in that scratch league also.

Maybe the problem is, you haven't been using the right ball.

[RobLV1]

Back in 89/90 during the limited distance dressing days, they only stripped the lanes on Tuesday Early am, and Friday Early am.

With the exception of Tuesday, and Friday, everyday was just oil on top of existing oil, with no cleaning.

I bowled on both Monday, and Thursday, which by your reasoning would be the worst days.

On Monday that season, I shot 300, 299, and a 771 high series which was high in that scratch league.

On Thursday that season, I shot a couple of 289s, and a 791 high series which was high in that scratch league also.

Maybe the problem is, you haven't been using the right ball.

I too bowled in several leagues during the eighties on days where the lanes were freshly stripped. I remember to this day one night where twice I left the baby split and put the ball between the three and the ten without touching either pin, and that was using urethane! This is not a matter of just using weak equipment. One of my teammates on Thursday night is a former PBA Tour bowler, and he will often shoot 700+ one night and 550 the next week, depending on the use of the particular lanes during the day. The entire issue with this thread is that due to the way the lanes are dressed, scores fluctuate wildly from pair to pair. No-one cares about the scores, as long as the conditions are the same for everyone. When teams are allowed to pre-bowl or make-up without giving the opposing team the opportunity to bowl on the same conditions, huge inequities occur. No one is whining about low scores, Mike, we are just trying to make sure that everyone gets a fair shake. That's why the rule was put into effect.

[Mike White]

I too bowled in several leagues during the eighties on days where the lanes were freshly stripped. I remember to this day one night where twice I left the baby split and put the ball between the three and the ten without touching either pin, and that was using urethane! This is not a matter of just using weak equipment. One of my teammates on Thursday night is a former PBA Tour bowler, and he will often shoot 700+ one night and 550 the next week, depending on the use of the particular lanes during the day. The entire issue with this thread is that due to the way the lanes are dressed, scores fluctuate wildly from pair to pair. No-one cares about the scores, as long as the conditions are the same for everyone. When teams are allowed to pre-bowl or make-up without giving the opposing team the opportunity to bowl on the same conditions, huge inequities occur. No one is whining about low scores, Mike, we are just trying to make sure that everyone gets a fair shake. That's why the rule was put into effect.

My example was not about freshly stripped lanes.

Our Monday league bowled on lanes that hadn't been stripped since Friday Am, meaning we were bowling on Friday's oil, Saturday's oil, Sunday's oil, and Monday's oil, and add to that, it was a 2nd shift league.

Same idea for Thursday. Tuesday's oil, Wednesday's oil, and Thursday's oil, also a 2nd shift league.

As for everyone getting a fair shake, that's pretty much impossible.

Some people are going to do better on fresh, and some people won't.

[RobLV1]

My example was not about freshly stripped lanes.

Our Monday league bowled on lanes that hadn't been stripped since Friday Am, meaning we were bowling on Friday's oil, Saturday's oil, Sunday's oil, and Monday's oil, and add to that, it was a 2nd shift league.

Same idea for Thursday. Tuesday's oil, Wednesday's oil, and Thursday's oil, also a 2nd shift league.

As for everyone getting a fair shake, that's pretty much impossible.

Some people are going to do better on fresh, and some people won't.

When two teams bowl on the same pair of lanes at the same time, that's a fair shake. Whoever bowls the best wins. I don't know how it can be any fairer than that!

[Mike White]

When two teams bowl on the same pair of lanes at the same time, that's a fair shake. Whoever bowls the best wins. I don't know how it can be any fairer than that!

First off you're bowling on lane conditions that are designed to increase scores.

Problem is, that design doesn't help everyone the same.

Modern bowling balls help those with weak releases obtain enough entry angle to carry.

Is that giving the guy who developed a stronger release a fair shake?

If they only changed the ball, that would be fine, because those players would have to learn to throw a banana ball, because it sure isn't going to go straight, unless it dies.

So now instead of seeing all these banana balls, we have a wall of oil to remove the need for the banana.

Scoring now isn't about who bowls best, it's about who conforms to the design of the oil pattern.

For some people, that's not much change from their natural style, for others, it's a lot more.

Is that a fair shake?

And what does fair shake mean?

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/fair%20shake

If fair shake means the same as "even odds, "fifty-fifty", or "even chance" then the one who bowls better should still only have a fifty-fifty chance of winning.

[fordman1]

If I read the original post correctly you had an opportunity to bowl head to head. They were going to make it up. You got your notification.