What would you do?

**Tony** · 04-11-2016, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Mike White

That is a rather strange rule, mainly the part of "or otherwise get approval from league officers".

If no member is willing to "invite" you, but you can get approval from league officers, which team (of non inviters) are you going to sub for?

In the case when the house is the league secretary, we have seen people show up from other nights, centers and leagues at the front desk and had them announce they have
bowlers if anyone needs a sub. It's a little strange but it seems like it kind of explains a scenario when this might apply.

**Tony** · 04-11-2016, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by fordman1

As a long time secretary I sit down every summer on the patio and reread my By-laws. I make my sit and listen to see if she understands what they mean. (she isn't a league bowler anymore) If I find anything that is confusing or just plain unworkable I make sure it is corrected. The one thing that is the hardest is postponements, make ups, pre bowl etc. Everyone has an opinion as to what is right or wrong. You will never get a consensus.
The rule in this situation is silly. If you have an emergency the morning of league you may not have time to notify anyone but the center or sec. You must have reasonable rules and live by them. Like I said before if you get to the center and find out the other team is going to make it you have a right to find a time you can both agree upon and bowl head to head. I would rather bowl with the whole league and win a mystery or other pot.

In case of the post bowling rule, how often have seen post bowling used for a legitimate purpose ? Seems like most of the time it's used to create an advantage for the team using it.

**fordman1** · 04-11-2016, 06:02 PM

Tony I don't think I have ever seen a team do it for an advantage. We have lucky strike, lucky digit mysteries that pay $220 the 1st & 2nd game and the same for progressive. Plus lots of pots. No one wants to miss We are in week 32 and have given over 110 K so far. We bowl on fresh oil as do the make up and post bowling.

**Mike White** · 04-11-2016, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Tony

In the case when the house is the league secretary, we have seen people show up from other nights, centers and leagues at the front desk and had them announce they have
bowlers if anyone needs a sub. It's a little strange but it seems like it kind of explains a scenario when this might apply.

Ok, someone shows up to the desk and wants to sub.

A team happens to need a sub.

The league officers say that bowler hasn't been approved.

Well, the team just decides to "invite" the sub.

Still don't see where the Officer's Approval comes in to play.

If a team wants someone to sub, they are "invited".

If the team doesn't want someone, I seriously doubt a league official can force the team to take an "officer approved sub" against the team's will.

**Tony** · 04-11-2016, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by Mike White

Ok, someone shows up to the desk and wants to sub.

A team happens to need a sub.

The league officers say that bowler hasn't been approved.

Well, the team just decides to "invite" the sub.

Still don't see where the Officer's Approval comes in to play.

If a team wants someone to sub, they are "invited".

If the team doesn't want someone, I seriously doubt a league official can force the team to take an "officer approved sub" against the team's will.

Yes, that's the closest example of how is might apply I have seen, maybe the league has a rule that subs must be approved. Not sure what would call for that. There is one league I was in that the house built most of the teams by putting random bowlers together and when there were vacancies they would fill them but they let anyone sub....?

**Aslan** · 04-12-2016, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by Briantime

I must confess these posts always befuddle me a bit...

I though league bowling was supposed to be fun. Seems like a lot of people get all bent out of shape about rule violations. I mean...it's a local bowling league, yes?

The problem is, how fun is something if you know it's unfair?

Would you use a slot machine if you knew it never actually paid out?

Would you go watch a sporting event where you already knew the outcome?

If someone was playing cards with you...but had an extra deck in their pocket, would you still play?

I know you'll see these as extreme examples, but once a sport loses it's "fairness"...it's no longer a "sport". It's just an "exercise"...something to "do" when you have nothing else to do.

I can beat you bowling every single time if I can simply change the scores at will. You score a 264...I change my scores and get a 266. I miss a single-pin...I pretend I picked it up. I just decide that splits for me are automatic conversions and for you, automatic misses. I don't think you'd want to play very long. Even if you're really, really bored...you'd get annoyed that the playing field isn't level.

What I find interesting is...there are some things we talk about on these boards...where people are in general agreement that rules are rules and rules should be enforced. In other situations, there are many of the same people claiming the rules are silly. I think each person decides for themselves how important rules are.

Common rule violations I see almost every week during lane play:

1) Application of a foreign substance to bowling shoes (powder).
2) Use of non-approved cleaners/polishes or re-surfacing balls during play.
3) Not wearing bowling shoes.
4) Crossing over the foul line during shot delivery.
5) Use of bowling balls outside USBC specifications.

As to #1..many bowlers have no idea they're not supposed to do that. The ones that do, don't care.
As to #2, a rule that is often enforced at the PBA level...but not at the amateur levels.
As to #3, it's usually a bowling center rule...but often times it's ignored by the "planters" that don't slide.
As to #4, 2 out of 3 bowling centers I bowl at turn off the foul line buzzer or it doesn't work.
As to #5, like I said before...most pro shops don't actually weigh balls after drilling to see if they need balance holes. I'd bet roughly 1/4 of the balls on league night at most centers would fail.

Are these "big deals"? Probably not. The first one is...because those that plant don't realize how slippery you can make an approach for those that do slide. And those that do slide don't understand how dangerous applying that powder is to those that plant. I've even seen some people apply it "knowing" it would mess with the other team. It got so bad at one point, the President made a rule that if powder was laying around in the bowling area...the team could forfeit a game....which didn't really stop people from applying it to their shoes outside the bowling area...but they got sick of people falling and hurting themselves.

**bowl1820** · 04-12-2016, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Aslan

Common rule violations I see almost every week during lane play:

1) Application of a foreign substance to bowling shoes (powder).
2) Use of non-approved cleaners/polishes or re-surfacing balls during play.
3) Not wearing bowling shoes.
4) Crossing over the foul line during shot delivery.
5) Use of bowling balls outside USBC specifications.

As to #1..many bowlers have no idea they're not supposed to do that. The ones that do, don't care.
As to #2, a rule that is often enforced at the PBA level...but not at the amateur levels.
As to #3, it's usually a bowling center rule...but often times it's ignored by the "planters" that don't slide.
As to #4, 2 out of 3 bowling centers I bowl at turn off the foul line buzzer or it doesn't work.
As to #5, like I said before...most pro shops don't actually weigh balls after drilling to see if they need balance holes. I'd bet roughly 1/4 of the balls on league night at most centers would fail.

#1- The application of a foreign substance to bowling shoes (ie: powder) is not a rule violation, The rule is you can't get a foreign substance on the approach.

The problem here is that people improperly use them and track it on the approach. If used properly it's unlikely that you'll get it on the approach.

#2- Yes this happens, usually it's not enforced because nobody will go complain.

#3- As long as the shoes are non-marking and dedicated to bowling (Not the shoes you wore in of the street) they are bowling shoes.

#4- If the foul lights are not working, then it's part of the team Captains job to watch for fouls and call them. If they sit back and don't say anything you either say something to them or live with it.

"Commonly Asked Question – Rule 5c.
5c/1 What happens if our foul lights are not available?
If not available, members of the league should be advised the captains are responsible for the calling of fouls or someone can be designated to act as a foul judge."

#5- Well the good ones do. If not, then you as the buyer should be asking to have the static weights verified before you leave the shop.

**Ptnomore** · 04-12-2016, 11:05 AM

Neither of my leagues play that rule. In the Fri Night Mixed league, a money league but more relaxed, if a team or bowler is going to be absent, they have the option to pre-bowl, or use their absentee scores which is their average minus 10 pins. However, a minimum of 3 bowlers from your team must be present and bowl, on league night OR pre-bowl to avoid a forfeit. In the Tues Mens league, bigger money, more competitive, if you aint there, you use your absentee score which is average minus 15 pins, and again...3 persons from that team must bowl on the designated league night to avoid forfeit. There is no pre-bowling in that league.

I like simple rules. Might be harsh and difficult, but it avoids conflict, both personal as well as between teams.

**Aslan** · 04-13-2016, 01:02 PM