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Thread: What would you do?

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    An update:

    At the time that we pointed out to the league secretary that it was a league rule that the other team notify a league officer and the opposing team of their intention to miss league and make up, we were told by the secretary that we could "leave and not bowl, but it's your responsibility to contact the other team and schedule a makeup at their convenience." Really.!?! We bowled anyway, and informed the secretary the we would be filing a protest with the local association. Two days later, the league President called our team captain and told him that they had decided to give us the opportunity to throw out our scores and bowl the other team head to head the next morning (Sunday). We opted to do this and re-bowled the next morning. We won two of three and totals.

    Last night, we were informed that the league officers were in error and that the other team had protested with the local USBC and were told that since we bowled, our scores would have to count.
    According to the USBC rule book that is wrong.


    USBC Rule book Page 50,Commonly Asked Questions – Rule 111e.
    111e/1 If a team is granted a pre-bowl or postponement and the opposing team is not notified,
    are the games forfeited?
    No. When bowling unopposed, the opposing team does not have to be notified (or agree to
    a date) prior to the time of bowling, unless otherwise provided by league rule. Notification
    of the opposing team is courtesy and games cannot be forfeited. If the league adopted a rule
    requiring notification and the opposing team was not notified and filed a written protest, the
    league board would have the following options:
    a. Games stand as bowled.
    b. Null and void both teams’ scores and require both teams to re-bowl in direct opposition.





    Here's the problem we have with this entire scenario: the other team did not follow the rule about informing us of their intention to miss bowling and make-up the game, the League Secretary was not even aware of the rule, the League Secretary and the League President was not aware of the USBC rule that games could not be re-bowled for any reason, and we gave up our Sunday morning for nothing.
    Option "B" above is right on point with what happened: The team didn't notify you, the officers null & voided the score and had you bowl head to head. The officers weren't in error.

    The fly in the ointment could be where they gave you the option to "leave and not bowl" and you chose to bowl. The Assoc. may have looked at that and said that since you chose to bowl then, then those scores are the ones that should stand.

    Direct the question to the national rules dept. ( rules@bowl.com ) for a better ruling.

    The bottom line is that we not only were aware of the league rule and followed it, did what were told to do, and ended up losing three points. Before any of you start in about being petty and cut-throat over three points, let me assure you that this is not the case. We could care less about the three points. What we do care about is the fact that we have league officers that are not aware of the rules, and are afraid to enforce them once they are made aware of them. In the case of the League Secretary, he still refuses to acknowledge any wrong-doing on his part at all despite the fact that he has not enforced the league rule all year.
    If the Officers are not doing the job, you either have them kicked out and replaced (Rule 115 - Disciplinary Procedures
    115a. Dismissal of a League Officer or Player) or next season vote in new ones.
    Last edited by bowl1820; 04-15-2016 at 10:04 AM.

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  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowl1820 View Post
    Also here's from the Rule about this situation.

    111e/1 If a team is granted a pre-bowl or postponement and the opposing team is not notified,
    are the games forfeited?

    No. When bowling unopposed, the opposing team does not have to be notified (or agree to
    a date) prior to the time of bowling, unless otherwise provided by league rule. Notification
    of the opposing team is courtesy and games cannot be forfeited.

    If the league adopted a rule requiring notification and the opposing team was not notified and filed a written protest, the league board would have the following options:

    a. Games stand as bowled.
    b. Null and void both teams’ scores and require both teams to re-bowl in direct opposition.


    So Rob's league has a rule requiring notification, if he wants to protest it has to be in writing.
    The rules are the rules.
    This is a terrible rule.
    As a long time secretary of a 5 man 24 team league I have every bowler in the league including subs 184 bowlers phone number. I have tried many times to get in touch with one team or another and either the number is no longer in service or it goes to voice mail. It is hard to get in touch with people.
    How much time must be spent trying to get in touch with a team? Can you leave a voice mail? The protest was correct if that is what you want to do. The fact the officers of the league told you wrong about making up the games and made you bowl on Sunday and the scores don't count is a shame.
    Next year why don't you run for President of Secretary? Read the rules before the organizational meeting before the 1st week and make a list of stupidly worded rules and ones you want changed. That is the way to go. And good Luck!

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowl1820 View Post
    According to the USBC rule book that is wrong.


    USBC Rule book Page 50,Commonly Asked Questions – Rule 111e.
    111e/1 If a team is granted a pre-bowl or postponement and the opposing team is not notified,
    are the games forfeited?
    No. When bowling unopposed, the opposing team does not have to be notified (or agree to
    a date) prior to the time of bowling, unless otherwise provided by league rule. Notification
    of the opposing team is courtesy and games cannot be forfeited. If the league adopted a rule
    requiring notification and the opposing team was not notified and filed a written protest, the
    league board would have the following options:
    a. Games stand as bowled.
    b. Null and void both teams’ scores and require both teams to re-bowl in direct opposition.







    Option "B" above is right on point with what happened: The team didn't notify you, the officers null & voided the score and had you bowl head to head. The officers weren't in error.

    The fly in the ointment could be where they gave you the option to "leave and not bowl" and you chose to bowl. The Assoc. may have looked at that and said that since you chose to bowl then, then those scores are the ones that should stand.

    Direct the question to the national rules dept. ( rules@bowl.com ) for a better ruling.



    If the Officers are not doing the job, you either have them kicked out and replaced (Rule 115 - Disciplinary Procedures
    115a. Dismissal of a League Officer or Player) or next season vote in new ones.

    Based on the description, the league officers were in error to "null and void" the scores, because they exceeded their authority.

    It's the league board that decides, not just the league officers. The league board consists of the officers, and all of the team captains.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike White View Post
    The logic in their case was due to females having a longer life span, finding enough males old enough to bowl in the league, who were still physically able to bowl was becoming more difficult.
    Well, thats the most depressing post I've ever read on these boards. We spend 55 years trying to talk women into bowling so we can bowl in a mixed league...then we all die and they start their own all female leagues.

  5. #75
    High Roller got_a_300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aslan View Post
    We spend 55 years trying to talk women into bowling so we can bowl in a mixed league...then we all die and they start their own all female leagues.
    Years ago when the WIBC was still in effect we had all women leagues at
    our center and no men were allowed to bowl with them. I don't think it is
    fair that on the new PWBA tour that the men are not allowed to bow in it
    but the women can bowl on the PBA tour so why not allow the men to bowl
    in the PWBA also I say fair is fair.
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  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by got_a_300 View Post
    Years ago when the WIBC was still in effect we had all women leagues at
    our center and no men were allowed to bowl with them. I don't think it is
    fair that on the new PWBA tour that the men are not allowed to bow in it
    but the women can bowl on the PBA tour so why not allow the men to bowl
    in the PWBA also I say fair is fair.
    Haven't you learned by now, when dealing with women (of any age) there is no such thing as fair.

  7. #77
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    Not a good idea to start a white power or anything all about white people either or you are called a racist. But Black caucus in congress is OK. NAACP is ok. Curtain things have to be OK others are not OK.
    My league is all men no women and no one under 18.

  8. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by fordman1 View Post
    Not a good idea to start a white power or anything all about white people either or you are called a racist. But Black caucus in congress is OK. NAACP is ok. Curtain things have to be OK others are not OK.
    My league is all men no women and no one under 18.
    Huh....

  9. #79
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    Yea I guess that was poorly worded. What I meant is some things are OK others aren't. Bad idea to have an all white mens league. All Italian leagues exist. All Kmart leagues exist. All womens leagues exist. All gay leagues exist. Miss black America exists.
    Miss white America, not a good idea.
    This is just a fact. Not my belief. I happen to be a liberal not a conservative.

  10. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by fordman1 View Post
    Yea I guess that was poorly worded. What I meant is some things are OK others aren't. Bad idea to have an all white mens league. All Italian leagues exist. All Kmart leagues exist. All womens leagues exist. All gay leagues exist. Miss black America exists.
    Miss white America, not a good idea.
    This is just a fact. Not my belief. I happen to be a liberal not a conservative.
    Did you just have this epiphany?

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