Need a weak ball that still hits hard?

[RobLV1]

This is interesting. Rob, in point 1 is it always total boards covered on a house shot? Is it boards covered playing up 10, or through the oil, etc? I think the different lines and the THS has a lot to do with the perception of a ball being "strong" or not. To your point a tropical breeze or strike king played up 5 on a THS can "cover more boards" vs a strong ball that dies out 30 feet down the lane and rolls its way into the pins thus having a perception of being stronger in that instance.

3. I know that this one will probably irritate some people but I generally throw storm and this was the first brunswick product I had. I did noticed a different shape vs the storm and roto grip products, which was certainly something that made me feel that it read earlier.

1. Those that consider balls "strong" or "weak" based on the number of boards covered do not understand modern bowling well enough to grasp the concept that an overly aggressive ball can lose energy if thrown on a line where the oil is already gone.

2. There are differences between ball companies in terms of ball reaction and those differences are the result of cover formulations. There is no difference that is greater between ball reactions from different companies than those between Storm and Brunswick. Balls from Storm seem to be designed to give more read on the backends and balls from Brunswick seem to give more mid-lane read. This is based on my own experience with balls from both companies.

[RobLV1]

Wow good thing I didn't ask something complicated. All I wanted was a few recondition for a ball weaker that an LT48 and stronger than a pitch black. That and a good drilling pattern so I can play outside.
Now why do balls have ratings? Could it be that some are stronger than others?

230 is stronger than 160 right?

For the Pros a 10 hooks more than a 6 Right?

I may be old but I have a lot of confidence that I could shoot 300 and better than 750 this coming year.

1. Try one of the new Brunswick Rhino Pros.
2. There is no drilling pattern that will let you play outside. The lane tells you where it wants to be played... it's not your decision nor your PSO's.
3. The "Perfect Scale" is pure nonsense, designed for bowlers who are too lazy to understand the four componants that determine ball reaction.
4. The scale that is used for the pros on the PBA telecasts describe hook potential based on several factors including surface and layout.
5. Confidence is a good thing... often better than reality!

[Amyers]

This is interesting. Rob, in point 1 is it always total boards covered on a house shot? Is it boards covered playing up 10, or through the oil, etc? I think the different lines and the THS has a lot to do with the perception of a ball being "strong" or not. To your point a tropical breeze or strike king played up 5 on a THS can "cover more boards" vs a strong ball that dies out 30 feet down the lane and rolls its way into the pins thus having a perception of being stronger in that instance.

To answer some of Amyers questions... it's probably a little bit of all of those things except 1. I had a few challenges with this ball from the get-go.

1. It's a "heavy" 15. So much so that nearly everyone who has picked it up has thought it was a 16. Unless it was a misprint on the box or a production/packing error, it was a 15. However I agree that it seemed heavier than my other 15lb balls. This difference in weight I believe led me to roll with less side rotation, and perhaps a little less speed, with the end reaction being that it read the lane earlier.

2. The layout was standard but the drilling was pretty bad. I tried a new PSO out for this one and he messed up my initial drilling (no measurements, he went off a previous ball, etc.). I no longer have the ball, but it was drilled pin up and right of the ring finger. Generic. Even after I got the ball re-drilled to fix span and thumb pitch however, it never really felt as comfortable or "right" as the other balls I had, which could also have led to the different roll I got with it off my hand.

3. I know that this one will probably irritate some people but I generally throw storm and this was the first brunswick product I had. I did noticed a different shape vs the storm and roto grip products, which was certainly something that made me feel that it read earlier.

I had some good games with the ball (even a 279) but never really got into a consistent groove with it. When I say it wasn't really a ball down from the nano I didn't mean that it covered more boards... only that it seemed to read the lane around the same point where I would have expected it to glide through a little more before beginning it's move.

I understand completely. If the Lt-48 was reading at the same point your Nano was something is wrong the important thing is you realized it and moved on. Trying out a new PSO is always an adventure.

[Amyers]

1. Try one of the new Brunswick Rhino Pros.
2. There is no drilling pattern that will let you play outside. The lane tells you where it wants to be played... it's not your decision nor your PSO's.
3. The "Perfect Scale" is pure nonsense, designed for bowlers who are too lazy to understand the four componants that determine ball reaction.
4. The scale that is used for the pros on the PBA telecasts describe hook potential based on several factors including surface and layout.
5. Confidence is a good thing... often better than reality!

I haven't got to try out the Rhino yet or see one in action yet. I'm thinking of adding one to the bag this summer. I can recommend the Soul or Soulmate though. My daughters both use the Soulmate and two of my teammates throw the soul and both balls give a nice consistent reaction on the lanes. I will agree with Rob if the shots not there down and in you have to adjust to where the lanes are playable at and not try to force it where you want to play.

If you prefer the later read of a storm ball I would go with the Ride or the Match from Storm. I can really comment on drilling your better off to talk to your PSO who has seen how you bowl for that.

[1VegasBowler]

RobLv1 and I bowled once together recently, and it was an honor and a pleasure to bowl with him. I would certainly do it again

My main balls are the DV8 Vandal and the Thug Unruly, and as RobLV1 will attest to, I can get some ridiculous pin carry with not so great hits.

And while my approach to spares makes him shake his head a bit (lol), it has been very effective for me.

Anyhow....There are 3 balls that I have looked at recently and I will be getting 2 of the 3 here in the next few months. The Vintage Danger Zone, the Mastermind Brainiac and the Ultimate Nirvana.

The Ultimate Nirvana is definitely going in the bag (probably in August). It seems to go a bit longer than the Nirvana with a smoother finish and a ton of pin action.

The Mastermind Brainiac and the Vintage Danger Zone are both darn good balls and making a choice between the 2 is very difficult, but I don't think I can go wrong with either since I want to have a symetrical ball in my arsenal.

I will certainly be talking with Johnny Petraglia, Jr. to see what the advantages and disadvantages of these 2 will be. He will be my "go to" on this one since he is a Brunswick Staffer, and he will probably know better than most. (No offense to anybody here)

[larry mc]

just got the new rhino ,, it hits harrrd

[1VegasBowler]

Well, I spoke with Johnny Petraglia, Jr. on Saturday and we certainly both like the same bowling balls for the same reasons.

I spoke with him about the Mastermind Brainiac and the Vintage Danger Zone, and why I wanted a symetrical ball in my arsenal. Without any hesitation he said the Vintage Danger Zone is the one to go with.

I told him that when I do get it in about a month or so, that I want a dual angle drilling and I'm going to let him decide what the dual angle will be for what its primary use will be for.

I trust Johnny implicitly and i know he will do what he thinks will be best.

[Amyers]

Well, I spoke with Johnny Petraglia, Jr. on Saturday and we certainly both like the same bowling balls for the same reasons.

I spoke with him about the Mastermind Brainiac and the Vintage Danger Zone, and why I wanted a symetrical ball in my arsenal. Without any hesitation he said the Vintage Danger Zone is the one to go with.

I told him that when I do get it in about a month or so, that I want a dual angle drilling and I'm going to let him decide what the dual angle will be for what its primary use will be for.

I trust Johnny implicitly and i know he will do what he thinks will be best.

I'm pretty sure I would be taking Jonny's advice over mine or probably anybody on most sites too if he was available. One of the advantages of being somewhere like Vegas. I think you'll like the danger zone it's become my go to on THS shots here lately. I'm not as fond of it on the sport shots though although a surface change would probably fix that.

[1VegasBowler]

I'm pretty sure I would be taking Jonny's advice over mine or probably anybody on most sites too if he was available. One of the advantages of being somewhere like Vegas. I think you'll like the danger zone it's become my go to on THS shots here lately. I'm not as fond of it on the sport shots though although a surface change would probably fix that.

You've it the nail right on the head!

Those of us who are fortunate enough to live in cities where we have access to people like Johnny have an advantage over those who do not have such resources.

When I mentioned the same equipment we have in common, he and I both have a Vandal & Thug Unruly. And while I'll soon have a VDZ & Ultimate Nirvana, he already has them! lol

I know his wife also has a VDZ because I saw it in her arsenal when she was practicing with a new DV8 Grudge. (new as in drilled only a few minutes before she threw it..lol) Heck, she even picked up her VDZ and handed it to me so I could look at it closer. How many people do you know who do that? Very few that I know of! lol

On another bowling board, I have said that I do value the opinions of others. Anything I can pick up to improve my game comes with an appreciation that is greater than one can imagine. And while I do not always agree with somebody's opinion, they certainly have that right to express it. Agreeing to disagree with out having a fully blown bru-ha-ha always keeps things interesting, and with an open mind one should be able to understand the perspective of another.

While there are many people out here who know people like Johnny and others like him in this sport, I consider myself lucky to have such a resource. I also don't take advantage of the fact of his notoriety because that has never been my way with others. I not only know Johnny by doing business with him, but I also know him and his wife on a personal level and they are both great people.

If he tells me that the VDZ will be better than the MB on sport shots, I have no doubt he will do what is necessary to make this ball work, and as long as I stay with it, everything will work out.

[fordman1]

Vegas I have a question for you. Do they put weight blocks in those 12 lb. balls you use?