RADICAL New Scoring System

[classygranny]

We just learned on Friday that for about 2 months or so the oil the alley was using was part oil and part cleaner. No wonder it's been an interesting 6 weeks at that house. Machines are only going to do what the people tell them to do - right or wrong. Still everyone bowled on the same condition, so all is equal.

Keep in mind that not all THSs are the same. I bowl in two different Brunswick houses and they are NOT the same THS pattern. Maybe more verification by the USBC would be a good place to start along with some changing of the oil patterns. I'm not saying all THS's should be the same, but the house needs to be responsible enough to use the right oil and within the amounts specified, or be held accountable by someone - the USBC?

[Mike White]

The gentleman was saying to purposely use a Sport pattern. And even if it is "accidental", be very careful of the bowler(s) who know how Sport patterns work and sooner or later they're gonna raise he11, and that can spell trouble. Just sayin'.

Not what the other guy said, just what you said.

"Then you have to have it classified as a Sport League, and once you do that you can't use the THS for the other weeks."

A Standard League has no rules about oil patterns that would eliminate using the US Open pattern (on purpose, or accident).

[Mike White]

We just learned on Friday that for about 2 months or so the oil the alley was using was part oil and part cleaner. No wonder it's been an interesting 6 weeks at that house. Machines are only going to do what the people tell them to do - right or wrong. Still everyone bowled on the same condition, so all is equal.

Keep in mind that not all THSs are the same. I bowl in two different Brunswick houses and they are NOT the same THS pattern. Maybe more verification by the USBC would be a good place to start along with some changing of the oil patterns. I'm not saying all THS's should be the same, but the house needs to be responsible enough to use the right oil and within the amounts specified, or be held accountable by someone - the USBC?

Not all equal if it's a handicap league.

Usually the higher average bowlers will be punished more because they were able to figure out the easier condition, and the clueless will still be clueless on the screwed up condition.

If you want fair, bowl scratch.

It's your ability directly vs your opponents.

If they are better than you, get busy improving.

Handicap especially 90% or more eliminates the incentive to improve your abilities.

[1VegasBowler]

Not what the other guy said, just what you said.

"Then you have to have it classified as a Sport League, and once you do that you can't use the THS for the other weeks."

A Standard League has no rules about oil patterns that would eliminate using the US Open pattern (on purpose, or accident).

A Standard league is classified that does not use a Sport pattern, and Sport Bowling USBC Rule 200a 2 says the following: The conditions bowled on are considered to be of a different variety than what is considered a “Standard” or “house” pattern.

This eliminates the use of the US Open pattern because it is considered a Sport pattern.

[Mike White]

A Standard league is classified that does not use a Sport pattern, and Sport Bowling USBC Rule 200a 2 says the following: The conditions bowled on are considered to be of a different variety than what is considered a “Standard” or “house” pattern.

This eliminates the use of the US Open pattern because it is considered a Sport pattern.

Rule 200a doesn't apply to a Standard League.

Rule 200a says a Sport League can't use just any ole pattern.

That says nothing about what a Standard League can use.

[1VegasBowler]

Rule 200a doesn't apply to a Standard League.

Rule 200a says a Sport League can't use just any ole pattern.

That says nothing about what a Standard League can use.

I have sent an email to the USBC asking them if a Sport pattern can be used at any time during Standard league play, and what rule(s) cover the answer to this question.

As soon as I get the answer I will post it here.

[jimgilmore]

Actually my Point was based on the OP idea of a radical new scoring system.
I personally do not see a need to change the scoring system.
I do have an issue with the handicap system which favor better bowlers and allowing them to dump on a regular basis.
One example is a practice league Iamon right now and even though I am getting the benifit I would like to see it changed. Here is why.
The handicap is 90% of 210. and the bye team is set at 140 per bowler.
so 140 + 140 is 280. and their handicap is 70*90=63 each so it is 126.
280 + 126=406
my team is 159 +187=346 and our handicaps are 45+20=65 so 346+65=411 My partner was not there so that meant a loss of 10 .so 401. I had to bowl my average +5 pins.
Not a hard ting to do some days and I felt that's fair....where I have an issue is that the team I bowled the week before was 2 women whom had very low averages.
For them to win they need to bowl like 10-20 pins over each game. I'd prefer to see blinds or vacant teams be set to some percent of the team they are playings average...
Like say the team has to bow their average +5 pins per bowler to win.
What I do not like about bowling with handicap and better bowlers is the consistant marking by the opponent till they are above you then they start missing their spares and pocket shots and not gaining higher than a few pins to win by just enough.

[1VegasBowler]

Actually my Point was based on the OP idea of a radical new scoring system.
I personally do not see a need to change the scoring system.
I do have an issue with the handicap system which favor better bowlers and allowing them to dump on a regular basis.
One example is a practice league Iamon right now and even though I am getting the benifit I would like to see it changed. Here is why.
The handicap is 90% of 210. and the bye team is set at 140 per bowler.
so 140 + 140 is 280. and their handicap is 70*90=63 each so it is 126.
280 + 126=406
my team is 159 +187=346 and our handicaps are 45+20=65 so 346+65=411 My partner was not there so that meant a loss of 10 .so 401. I had to bowl my average +5 pins.
Not a hard ting to do some days and I felt that's fair....where I have an issue is that the team I bowled the week before was 2 women whom had very low averages.
For them to win they need to bowl like 10-20 pins over each game. I'd prefer to see blinds or vacant teams be set to some percent of the team they are playings average...
Like say the team has to bow their average +5 pins per bowler to win.
What I do not like about bowling with handicap and better bowlers is the consistant marking by the opponent till they are above you then they start missing their spares and pocket shots and not gaining higher than a few pins to win by just enough.

While I agree in theory with what you say with the handicap, how do you handle the bowlers who are just out there to be social butterflies and don't care about how they bowl?

I don't ask that to be a snot, but I had 3 teammates on 2 teams that didn't care what their score was, and it would be the rarest of occasions that they bowl over their average.

While I do like about the scratch league that I'm in now, I know there are going to be tough nights when I have to bowl against those who are 20-25 pins better than I am. While I have to keep up with them however I can, it's ain't gonna be easy! lol

I know there are going to be times when I'm over matched, but despite the fact I know this, I also know that a challenge is what I'm in it for as well. Whether the challenge is the pattern, my opposition, myself or all 3, I have to do my best to overcome those challenges. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, but I learn more each time.

There's no easy solution to this, and the USBC is reluctant to change much of anything when it comes to handicaps, and until a really viable solution comes up to make it better I don't forsee any changes in the future.

JMO.

[1VegasBowler]

I have sent an email to the USBC asking them if a Sport pattern can be used at any time during Standard league play, and what rule(s) cover the answer to this question.

As soon as I get the answer I will post it here.

Here is the answer to this from Kathy at the USBC office in Texas.

If at anytime a Standard league uses a Sport pattern at anytime during league play they must be certified as a Sport League because the conditions have drastically changed and affects the averages of bowlers from 10-30 pins.

If a league member complains to the local USBC that the league is using a Sport pattern during league play, the local USBC must have that league changed to be certified as a Sport league.

If anybody wants to call the USBC as I did, their number is 800-514-2695. From the options menu go to Rules. Again, I spoke with Kathy about this.

[jimgilmore]

1.) I am handicapped. I bowl for fun and while most all leagues have some kind of prize fund.
2.)I'd prefer to see all leagues drop the average as being from the start of the league. Make your average be for the last three weeks only. It reduces the ability of one to use a bad week against an opponent to hold their average lower , and when the bowl great against a tough opponent their average will jump up in relation to what they bowl.
While many complain about how often a lower average team beats them USBC has stated that at 80 % handicap. The higher average team still wins 95% of the time.
3.) I'd prefer to see leagues make the teams. Not player derived. You join and the league will set the team in a way to make all teams within a closer average.
4.) That would make the teams closer both scratch and the handicap would almost not matter.
5.) And your average would be based on your last highest average on the same pattern. So if your bowling on a sport shot and ths the one your going to play on is used.
6.) Your average cannot drop more than a certain number of points below that starting average .
This prevents the higher average bowlers from starting low and bowling a little better each week to maintain max handicap.
7.) along these samelimes you cannot use a sub with a 220 average tp replace a bowler with a 100 average.