How do you Practice?

[ep1977]

Practicing in bowling to me a big reason for the decline in the game. It's the only sport where you can rarely if ever get to practice on the same conditions that you will compete on. Especially if you would like to practice on sport shots, good luck getting the center to put them out for you. They already treat the THS like a nuclear weapon code.

There are many centers near me and NONE will put out a pattern for any bowlers. One of them will oil the house for Sunday morning open bowling so it's no coincidence that the house is packed every Sunday. If you oil they will come but for some reason center managers don't seem to realize this. AMF houses never oil except for leagues.

[billf]

It's the only sport where you can rarely if ever get to practice on the same conditions that you will compete on.

The vast majority of football practices are not at full speed and not against the team you will be facing the following week.
Baseball practice even with live pitching isn't at the same pace or speed.
Same with hockey.
Speed skating.
Golf...18 holes isn't 18 holes. Shooting 18 at my local course won't get me ready for 18 holes on the PGA tour. Every green, fairway, rough and trap is different and they won't bring the course to me.

What all these sports do have in common: practice consists of consistently reinforcing the fundamentals. It's why pro baseball players hit off of a tee and pro football players hit the sled for hours on end.

[billf]

There are many centers near me and NONE will put out a pattern for any bowlers. One of them will oil the house for Sunday morning open bowling so it's no coincidence that the house is packed every Sunday. If you oil they will come but for some reason center managers don't seem to realize this. AMF houses never oil except for leagues.

Have you tried getting with a few other bowlers and offering an extra $5 each to cover the cost?

[ep1977]

The vast majority of football practices are not at full speed and not against the team you will be facing the following week.
Baseball practice even with live pitching isn't at the same pace or speed.
Same with hockey.
Speed skating.
Golf...18 holes isn't 18 holes. Shooting 18 at my local course won't get me ready for 18 holes on the PGA tour. Every green, fairway, rough and trap is different and they won't bring the course to me.

What all these sports do have in common: practice consists of consistently reinforcing the fundamentals. It's why pro baseball players hit off of a tee and pro football players hit the sled for hours on end.

Your points are complete nonsense! All of the sports you reference you can and most times do practice on the same conditions as you compete. In golf you can play practice rounds on any course in the country. Baseball you field ground balls on a BASEBALL field not on a concrete slab. Football you practice on a football field not on cement. Hockey you practice on ice same as you compete. The best comparison to bowling is the baseball fielding practice on cement rather than dirt and grass. This is similar to practicing bowling on sahara desert like conditions where you can't even use most of you equipment. I'm a low rev bowler and in practice I throw plastic very often.

[mc_runner]

Your points are complete nonsense! All of the sports you reference you can and most times do practice on the same conditions as you compete. In golf you can play practice rounds on any course in the country. Baseball you field ground balls on a BASEBALL field not on a concrete slab. Football you practice on a football field not on cement. Hockey you practice on ice same as you compete. The best comparison to bowling is the baseball fielding practice on cement rather than dirt and grass. This is similar to practicing bowling on sahara desert like conditions where you can't even use most of you equipment. I'm a low rev bowler and in practice I throw plastic very often.

I disagree. If you were talking about practicing on a baseball field vs. a concrete slab, you'd then have to compare that to throwing a bowling ball on concrete vs. an alley. A baseball field = alley - regulation length, width, pins to knock over, etc. The best comparison in Bill's point I saw was the golf one. We can travel to get to an alley to practice on whatever condition they may be putting out there, same as anyone can travel to practice on any course in the country. Your local par 3 isn't going to be Pebble Beach, just like your local non-oiled wood mom and pop alley isn't going to be the National Bowling Arena.

Regardless, the entire point is practice doesn't need to count for score. The point of practice should be to work on something to get better, oil isn't a huge factor into that depending on what you're working on. If you need a sport pattern call around, ask around, offer to chip in some $ to put it down and see what the options are.

[Aslan]

There are plenty of coaches that will analyze and respond to you regarding what they see is an issue and suggest some fixes for it. Bowlingchat.net is great about this. They have a sub section with certified coaches that are more than willing to help you out.

Yes. And, pray tell, how many DIFFERENT opinions and analysis do you think I will receive?

I'm sure I'll get every piece of advice from "you should try bowling 2-handed" to "You should throw Storm bowling products because they are superior."

Yes, While collecting data ( like on pin leaves, etc. ) during actual games can be of some use in helping define what you want to work on in practice.

Collecting that same data during practice isn't particularly useful.

I consider that absurd. Let me tell you why:

Many times...MANY TIMES...I bowl a few games and I have a sunken feeling of despair near the end of the bowling...that feeling that I couldn't pick up a corner single-pin if I was rolling a beach ball down the lane. And I feel like I just can't seem to carry. Then...I review my stats and I see that I actually made 9/10 single-pin spares...most of my open frames were splits or washouts, and I actually struck 39% of the time.

Suddenly, I don't feel so bad anymore. Did I get my 700 series? No. But the stats tell me what went wrong. They don't tell me everything. They don't tell me if I made too many adjustments or not enough. They don't tell me if I grabbed the ball too much or bent my elbow too much or if I didn't get low enough at the line or have the proper/ideal spine tilt. But the stats show me what the results were.

Sometimes, these stats are expected. I couldn't carry...couldn't find a line...ended up with a 25% strike rate...obviously if that continues...I need to have a talk with my coach...because I'm not carrying. Maybe it's a ball issue. Maybe not. Maybe it's a physical issue. Maybe not...maybe a combination.

I'm not saying scores and stats tell you everything. But they take virtually no effort and no time to keep track of. This isn't 1971. You don't have to keep track of all of this stuff my hand on pieces of paper. The machine scores for you. The phone calculates all the stats. It's practically ZERO effort. If you don't get much from the stats...wgaf? It's not a labor intensive endeavor.

Aslan: Data is as useless as scoring in practice. Can you control changes in your ball speed?

Yes

Can you change your axis tilt? Can you change your axis rotation?

Yes

Can you maintain good timing even when you have no shot?

Probably not.

Can you honestly say your rev rate is higher today than it was two months ago? Are you staying behind the ball better?

Yes, I think so.

All of these things are valid aspects of your game to learn to control, and none of them have anything to do with anything on your APP on your cell phone! Rant over.

I think what you're saying, is that while my $4 PinPal app may or may not be of use...the $130-$185 I spend a month on lessons is money well spent. I can agree with that.

Aslan: Okay, you want to keep data then keep it, BUT, forget about how many six pins you cover, or how many ten pins you miss, and keep track of some more important things:

What percentage of your shots are you able to post?

Most

How often do you actually remember to watch your ball as it exits the pin deck?

Not as often as I should.

How often do you remember to check the rack before you bowl?

I'll deal with pin placement when it's actually the limiting factor to my success.

When you are using the wrong ball on the wrong line, how many shots that are physically successful, regardless of the results at the pins?

I don't use the wrong ball on the wrong line. I use the right ball on the right line...but sometimes the lanes disagree with my decision(s).

When you change balls, how often can you strike on the very first attempt?

I've been getting better at this. Not PDW level yet...but improved.

These are important stats for practice. Anything else is a waste of time.

So you're saying....if a student comes to you with the below information....you'd consider it useless:

A) The student consistently leaves 1-2 and 1-2-8s. Rarely leaves splits.
B) The student has a 55% strike rate but averages < 185.
C) The student averages 180 at 4 different centers but averages 220 at a fifth center.

Now, I can keep listing scenarios...but the point is...sometimes (NOT all the time)...but SOMETIMES...statistics tell us little things. They may not tell us everything and they don't replace coaching...and are inferior to video most of the time...but they are a TOOL...like any other tool. Stats can be over-used, under-used, ignored, misplaced, misinterpreted, etc... just like any tool. The only 'failure' when it comes to tools...is being too stubborn to even look at it. And usually, we make that mistake because we don't like statistics. It's harder to make excuses. If we have a bad game...we can blame it on our health, or an injury, or the lane conditions, or the pro shop, or the ball manufacturer...we have a PLEOTHERA of excuses. But, if you average 178 because you missed 1/3 of your single-pins...does it really matter "why" you missed 1/3 of them? Was it 'not your fault'?

[vdubtx]

Yes. And, pray tell, how many DIFFERENT opinions and analysis do you think I will receive?

I'm sure I'll get every piece of advice from "you should try bowling 2-handed" to "You should throw Storm bowling products because they are superior."

I would say you would get 1 opinion from JMerrell on the Certified Coaching board. What have you got to lose?

[Aslan]

I would say you would get 1 opinion from JMerrell on the Certified Coaching board. What have you got to lose?

Hey, I'm a sponge. I seek out all input. But, to play devil's advocate, there has been a LOT of help here on bowlingboards.com over the years. I'd say the majority of it has been helpful and has advanced my performance. On the flip side....some of it has been utterly useless. Joe Slowinski is a pretty solid coach. I looked into his DYDS methodology. It didn't really help my game...that doesn't make Joe a bad bowler or bad coach. It just wasn't what I needed at that time or at this time.

And again, I'm an advocate of coaching. But I'm also an advocate in statistics and quantitative analysis. I think there is something to be learned from bowling statistics. Will you get better keeping track of your scores? No. Coaching is a much better path to improvement. But to ignore statistics and hope that some random passer-by or internet 'expert' is going to unlock you performance potential...is just as suspect.

It's like golf. Do you keep track of your score when you golf? Do you keep track of putts?

Why not? Isn't it important to know that you shot a 120 and each hole you were at least 3-putting? Doesn't that help you realize maybe a trip to the putting green is a good idea? You'd be surprised how few golfers keep track of their putts. Sometimes they have a good round, sometimes a bad round...and when you ask them what the difference is...it's always some random answer or "it was hot out" or "windy" or the people around them were golfing slow or fast...not ONE time will you hear a thoughtful answer such as:

"Well, I got to the green in 2 on all but 4 holes, so I was driving well and keeping things on the fairway. But with only a couple exceptions, it was a minimum of a 3-putt...which means my iron game wasn't getting me close enough or my putting needs improvement." Because what fun is that? It's like when I get weird looks from people when I bowl and play "lo-ball"...trying to pick off the 7-pin and 10-pin. People don't want to practice spares. That's boring. Just like all the guys on the driving range trying to hit the ball 300 yards. It's more fun than practicing putting.

[billf]

Your points are complete nonsense! All of the sports you reference you can and most times do practice on the same conditions as you compete. In golf you can play practice rounds on any course in the country. Baseball you field ground balls on a BASEBALL field not on a concrete slab. Football you practice on a football field not on cement. Hockey you practice on ice same as you compete. The best comparison to bowling is the baseball fielding practice on cement rather than dirt and grass. This is similar to practicing bowling on sahara desert like conditions where you can't even use most of you equipment. I'm a low rev bowler and in practice I throw plastic very often.

I played baseball on a baseball field. Played football on a football field and hockey on ice. I also bowl on a bowling lane. But not once was a regular practice at the same pace, intensity, duration or any other conditions that the games were played on. When practicing for baseball during batting practice a coach hits the infield ground balls while the batter is also hitting. Not exactly game conditions. Death crawl in football practice all the time yet I never had to do that during a game. Most people wouldn't bowl a league game using a one step yet that is still one of the most effective drills. Plus it doesn't require oil. So from your posts I take away that your physical game is flawless or at least good enough for you and ball motion is your concern. Not a problem but only if.....you can get a proprietor to put down a pattern. Which is why I made the suggestion I did. With three other bowlers plus yourself contributing an extra $5 each a center manager would have to be nuts not to oil a lane. It's how we got them to do it at our center. Now every Friday half the center gets a sport shot for practice without us paying extra. Why? They saw how many people were coming in on a Friday during the summer and made more from food and drinks than the net sales for entire Fridays in summers past. It is a business and in business money defintely talks.

[billf]

Yes. And, pray tell, how many DIFFERENT opinions and analysis do you think I will receive?

I'm sure I'll get every piece of advice from "you should try bowling 2-handed" to "You should throw Storm bowling products because they are superior."

Get as many QUALIFIED opinions as possible. While every qualified coach may see something different that they feel will improve your game doesn't mean they all are right or wrong. Rate them on what seems to make the most sense to you and try each of them over time. Plus ignore the unqualified crack pots. While most of what coaches see and make recommendations from comes from what they have seen work the majority of the time doesn't mean all of it will work for any one bowler. You mentioned Joe Slowinski and how DYDS isn't for you yet later mentioned correct spine tilt. So obviously a part of his philosphy does work for you. Mark Baker is big on the ball side foot always going in front of the slide foot on the approach. Works for most but not ALL bowlers. Most people see big benefits about alignment and launch angles from knowing their drift and offset yet Mike White has said it's all a crock. That's the frustrating part, because we are all individuals and don't do much alike finding what will and won't work takes time and effort from the bowler AND the coach.