Next Arsenal Dilemmas: Part III

[RobLV1]

Aslan: You cannot take the high RG and the Low RG and average them because the difference between them is the Differential and that can realistically vary from 0.020 to 0.060. The low RG matters, and the Differential matters. The high RG, or RG Max as Brunswick calls it, is meaningless.

As for my comment about you and ChuckR, it is neither a compliment nor a slight. It's just that the two of you bowl totally differently in terms of speed, axis tilt, and axis rotation.

[Mike White]

Aslan: You cannot take the high RG and the Low RG and average them because the difference between them is the Differential and that can realistically vary from 0.020 to 0.060. The low RG matters, and the Differential matters. The high RG, or RG Max as Brunswick calls it, is meaningless.

As for my comment about you and ChuckR, it is neither a compliment nor a slight. It's just that the two of you bowl totally differently in terms of speed, axis tilt, and axis rotation.

If you drill the ball with the Pin approximately 3 3/8" from the PAP, averaging the high and low RG values gives a reasonable estimate of the predrilled RG value of the PAP on a symmetrical ball.

I have no idea how you can claim the low RG and differential matters, yet the high RG is meaningless.

Differential is simply the difference between the high RG, and the low RG.

Maybe its time for you to re-examine what you think you know about the modern bowling ball.


It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so. - Mark Twain

[RobLV1]

If you drill the ball with the Pin approximately 3 3/8" from the PAP, averaging the high and low RG values gives a reasonable estimate of the predrilled RG value of the PAP on a symmetrical ball.

I have no idea how you can claim the low RG and differential matters, yet the high RG is meaningless.

Differential is simply the difference between the high RG, and the low RG.

Maybe its time for you to re-examine what you think you know about the modern bowling ball.


It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so. - Mark Twain

I'm just trying to make things as simple as possible. By just looking at the low RG and the Differential numbers, bowlers really don't have to understand what they are. By not averaging them as Aslan suggests, the numbers then work for both symmetricals and asymmetricals even when the pin to PAP distance is something other than 3 3/8" for those bowlers who have no idea what a PAP is.

[Mike White]

I'm just trying to make things as simple as possible. By just looking at the low RG and the Differential numbers, bowlers really don't have to understand what they are. By not averaging them as Aslan suggests, the numbers then work for both symmetricals and asymmetricals even when the pin to PAP distance is something other than 3 3/8" for those bowlers who have no idea what a PAP is.

Aslan: If you want "as simple as possible".. select the ball based in it's color.

If you want the ball to be as effective as possible, Rob's not a good source of information.

[RobLV1]

Aslan: If you want "as simple as possible".. select the ball based in it's color.

If you want the ball to be as effective as possible, Rob's not a good source of information.

Thank you for your kind words, Mike. They're appreciated as always.

[JaxBowlingGuy]

Lets try to stay on topic here. No need to get personal with anything. Opinions are like... well you know.. everyone has one.

[JJKinGA]

Mo Pinel has said the Rg of the PAP (which is what matters) can be well approximated for most bowlers by LowRg + 0.7*differential. That requires some simple math, but then you have one number to worry about in the comparisons.

[Mike White]

Mo Pinel has said the Rg of the PAP (which is what matters) can be well approximated for most bowlers by LowRg + 0.7*differential. That requires some simple math, but then you have one number to worry about in the comparisons.

Anytime you try to simply the process more than is actually required, you lose information.

Mo's approximation would only be good if most bowlers also use a Pin to Pap distance of approximately 4 3/4", and use symmetrical balls.

Mo also says the ball physically can't have more tilt than axis rotation.

[Aslan]

Uh oh. Mommy and Daddy are fighting again!!

I try to set my arsenals up in this method which works well for me:

Your method was sorta like my previous method. Just try to go "solid-hybrid-pearl" or most surface to less surface. And the sound reasoning behind that is that it's largely agreed upon that the "most" impact on a ball's path is surface/cover.

The problem with this method in my opinion is it's very true if everything else is constant. But everything else isn't constant. I would characterize it with this analogy:

It's very easy to test tires and determine relatively easily...which tire grabs more and which tire skids more. It's a simple test and is very, very accurate. But....how much a car skids....is the result of a multitude of factors including speed, and power, and transmission, and technology, and the weight of the vehicle, the surface the tire is on, etc...

And thats when I started giving PerfectScale and Rob's RG-focused arsenal selection method a look. Like Rob talks about, the RG is like the "engine"...the core is like the "engine" of the ball. Surface is still most relevant...as anyone who has ever lost control of a muscle car could tell you....but one the ball is transitioning from skid to hook...something has to push it in that physical direction....and just as important...something has to try and extend that hooking motion to delay the roll phase. I'm not explaining it well...you can look at Rob's article on ModernBowling (I think) for his explanation on RG use in arsenal selection.

As we've argued about before, the one weak point of using surface as the primary selection tool....is that while the coverstock remains a constant chemistry during usage; the surface changes are constantly happening and create more rapid changes to the ball movement than anything else. How long a person can throw a 2000 surface ball before the surface goes to 1000...???? You'll read all kinds of numbers. Some pro level bowlers will claim it's 5 games...5 weeks...5 rounds....and then others will claim it's 500 games, 5 years, 5 seasons. But from a pure physics standpoint, it is a physical certainty that said object will be constantly going from a state of order to disorder and everything from temperature to humidity to oxygen content to the force the ball must absorb each time it is thrown....all affect the surface...constantly.

So for you here is what I would do with what you have available:

...DV8 Rukus/Ebonite Warning Sign/Bullet train then Radical Reaxx Pearl/DV8 Rukus then Rotogrip Defiant Edge then Track 300a/Fortera Exile.

Looking at it in 3 parts:

First Ball:
I could agree on the Ruckus. I can't see the Ruckus being of much use in my current house at my current speed. But I think it could be a strong enough ball to start out with on wider or longer patterns. I'd just have to make sure when I get it drilled that the ball driller knows I want to use it for that purpose (i.e. Asylum issue). I don't agree on the other 2 (per se). Maybe the Bullet Train because the cover is so strong...but I would see the Bullet Train as more of a fresh pattern ball that won't react too early. And the Warning Sign...other than the low RG, it doesn't have the numbers at all to be a #1 ball...if anything it's a weak #2 ball.

My decision: I'm going to choose the Reaxx Pearl as my #1 ball. I think it's strong enough to overpower the Pearl cover...yet the Pearl cover at the OOB polish level will keep it from reacting too soon. The Ruckus was my 2nd choice, but I think I'll save that for the next arsenal.

Second Ball:
The Ruckus...given it's cover and RG...I could see it as a 2nd ball...1st ball on my house shot (which is a bit narrower). But the Reaxx Pearl...the only thing that would tell one that it's anything other than a #1 ball...is that it's a Pearl.

Decision:
I wanted to use the Defiant Edge if possible. And I think #2 is the best place to put it. I actually don't like many of these balls as a #2 ball...none of them really fit well there. But I think the Defiant Edge has a low enough RG to balance out the Pearl cover and is strong enough overall to make a good move downlane.

Third Ball:
As attached as I was to the idea of using the Track300A as the #3 ball....practice, drier lanes...Game #2 or #3 of a series...despite the weakness of the 300A...I thought it would be a good ball down option most nights. And the Exile, while I disagree a bit, is a skid/flip ball and if I was going to use it...I'd actually put it at #4 and use it the way I did the Melee Jab.

Decision:
I decided to go a little outside the box with #3. The Ebonite Innovate. Everything about this ball screams #3 ball with the exception of the RG. But I'll talk more about RG below.

the Exile but honestly from what I've seen and I bowl with quite a few guys who own one it's where it belongs and wqould be where it's at in their arsenals. There was a reason why this ball was on clearance for $69.

Thats definitely a risk. While I'm not 'that' concerned about it...but it's fair to say overall reviews have been lacking.

Your Asylum was a drilling mistake the took a bench mark ball and drilled the differential out of it trying to make the ball work as a #3 ball in your arsenal.

Perhaps.

Before I start, 2 things;
1) This is the 3rd or 4th possible combination I've come up with...and I have at least 120 more games on my current arsenal...so this CAN change.
2) I've spent enough time with my 2 coaches, that at LEAST out of courtesy....I will get their input as well...so if this is a truly BAD idea...it'll get relatively vetoed.

But, I think this proposed next arsenal will also be a good test of cover stocks and RG. All three balls will be pearls and will have almost identical low RGs. If there is going to be a fair amount of separation....I have to rely on:

1) The manufacturer difference to come into play. Radical to Roto Grip to Ebonite should go from hooking soonest to hooking latest.
2) The differential to be a greater influence than on the actual RG value. ).054, 0.052, then 0.041.
3) Set up with PerfectScale in mind. 224.8, 216.47, 189.9.
4) Symmetry doesn't matter. All 3 are assymetrical cores.

By keeping symmetry, coverstock, and RG constant...and surface relatively constant....I can better compare manufacturers, differential, and PerfectScale.

The risk is that all 3 with the same RG and surface and cover stock and symmetry will perform nearly identical. I'll pay to drill 3 balls...then have to either buy a couple or drill a couple other ones shortly after realizing my experiment was a failure.

[RobLV1]

Aslan:

A few issues. First, at the risk of raising the ire of many bowlers on these boards, I think that the actual differences between solids, pearls, and hybrids are greatly over-stated. Have you ever taken a solid and a pearl version of the same cover material with the same core and put the same surface on them. I have. I took a Melee Cross and a Melee Jab and put the Cross surface on both and threw them side by side. The difference in the reactions was indistinguishable. I then put the Jab surface on both and threw them side by side with the same result. Also, if you look at the BTM Reviews for the Storm Rocket and Sky Rocket, a hybrid and a pearl, both with the same OOB finish, you'll see that the reviews are virtually identical. Now, I'm not saying that there is no difference at all. I'm just saying that if I was in charge of marketing at a bowling ball company and could get customers to buy three nearly identical balls based mainly on the easily alterable surface on each, I would do it in a heartbeat!

Second issue: When a ball has a 2000 surface on it and is used over a period of however many games, it does not develop more surface (going down to 1000 as you suggest), it loses surface going up to 2500, 3000, 4000, etc. This "lane shine" results in a loss of friction and consequently, loss of reaction. This is one of the reasons that I have long suggested putting a particular surface on a ball as soon as it is purchase, and bringing the surface back regularly after a maximum of 6 games, with a total resurface every 30-50 games.

Third issue: It seems that you are viewing your arsenal as a static thing that remains unchanged until you totally replace it. A arsenal should be fluid and may change from week to week, depending on the center where you are bowling, the time of day that you are bowling, and even the weather outside. Let me give you an example. My own arsenal as it sits in my bowling bag right now consists of a Storm Snap Lock, a Radical Ridiculous (symmetrical), a Storm Fight, and a Brunswick LT 48. I also occasionally use a Melee Jab, a Radical Ridiculous (assymetrical), a Soul Mate, and a Mastermind Scholar.

The only ball that has remained in my bag over a long period of time is the LT 48, that I am probably going to replace with a new one pretty soon as it is the one ball that goes with me everywhere.

Once you learn to change your surfaces at will, I think that you will start seeing your arsenal as a fluid thing; not something that is set in stone.